BREAKING NEWS: Glibs to Recount NM and NV!!

[geo]

Hi all,

Found this in my inbox! :)

- George
--------------------------------------

NEWS RELEASE

For immediate release: November 29, 2004
Contact: Blair Bobier, Media Director at 541.929.5755

GREEN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FILES FOR RECOUNTS IN NEW MEXICO & NEVADA

David Cobb, the 2004 Green Party presidential candidate, today filed official requests for a recount of the presidential ballots cast in New Mexico and Nevada. As he did in Ohio, Cobb filed the requests jointly with Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik.

"The Green Party's dedication to protecting the integrity of the election process has led me to file for a recount in both New Mexico and Nevada. We want to ensure that every vote is counted and verify the accuracy of the electronic voting machines, particularly those which produce no paper trail," said David Cobb.

"It is absolutely critical that we verify the accuracy of electronic voting machines. Voting without independent checks and balances is a meaningless exercise. There is no reason why Americans should settle for second-best when it comes to protecting our democratic rights," said Cobb-LaMarche Media Director Blair Bobier.

The New Mexico presidential election was marred by reports of voter suppression and problems with electronic voting machines. In Nevada, the lack of paper trails or receipts for electronic voting machines is the primary concern. In an unrelated legal challenge, an election contest case will be heard today in Reno, Nevada, demanding a recount. The suit also seeks to address allegations that people employed by Sproul & Associates, an Arizona-based firm hired by the Republican National Committee, tore up and discarded voter registration forms completed by Democratic voters.

For more information about the Cobb-LaMarche campaign and the recount efforts in Ohio, New Mexico and Nevada, visit http://www.votecobb.org. The website of the national Green Party is http://www.gp.org.

[Melodybe]

1. kick, what a great day!!!!

[liberal al zib]

50. It is over guys

Kerry will be inaugurated on January 20th. I already bought a new suit for this great day. Wahoo!!!

[New Earth]

69. lol

that wasn't what was i expecting your post to say just by reading the title of your post :)

[goclark]

72. I share your upbeat spirit! Look out for Troll Ahead!

Every inch is like a mile at this point.

We will not get weary!


Let's MARCH in Nevada and New Mexico!!

[Wordie]

80. Don't forget to wear your tin foil hat! :)

I actually do think that on election day, we all should wear them. If Kerry manages to make it, then it will be a show of support, and if, despite our best efforts, it's Bush, then it will be a protest.

[life_long_dem]

97. Wahoo, indeed.

My wife and I are still waiting to pop the cork on our bottle of champagne that we bought to celebrate our new way of life, meaning
John Kerry as our new President.

[ahyums]

59. a great day? just because of this or for some other reason as well?

hope so because I still don't like the news coming out of the Ohio provisionals count I hope that improves soon.

[catnhatnh]

2. GO

How many states must recount before the MSM notices????????

[geo]

7. My guess...

every last single one of 'em. :) - G

[Wordie]

43. Is it too late to contest in FL? And, what is considered a "legal vote" in

Florida?

Is it the standard mentioned in the US Supreme Court Bush v. Gore 2000 decision, which said,<snip> "A “legal vote,” as determined by the Supreme Court, is “one in which there is a ‘clear indication of the intent of the voter. ’ ” Id., at ____ (slip op., at 25).
<and>
§102.168(3)(c), ...provides that “eceipt of a number of illegal votes or rejection of a number of legal votes sufficient to change or place in doubt the result of the election” shall be grounds for a contest.<unsnip>

As I read that, if the definition of a legal vote made by the FL Supreme Court still stands, then there are grounds for a contest. Because computer print-out tapes certainly DO NOT provide a clear indication of the intent of the voter. Were there changes in FL law based on the new federal law? Sheesh, this is so much to try to keep up with.

But then I thought that Bev said that the deadline had passed in Florida. Or, was that just for the recount, but not for a contest? I seem to recall that they may be different dates. Anyone?

BTW, George, thanks again for all your hard work on this and for keeping the rest of us informed with this great information!

[liberal al zib]

52. Yes we should

recount Florida. It is extremely easy to find 400,000 extra votes for Kerry. Finding extra 400,000 votes in a recount happened all the time.

[Eloriel]

57. Can't -- you have to show that the recount would overturn the

election and there are a bunch of recount-unfriendly laws that preclude the whole thing. Believe me, everyone wanted to, it just didn't work.

We HAVE to take a long, hard look at our election laws state-by-state, push for a Constitutional Right to Vote Amendment, and get our legislators, elected officials and judges to take our votes seriously. Right now there's a horrible laxity and indifference on the part of these groups to the vote, and that can't stand. It just can't.

[Wordie]

61. but might it be easier to contest, on the basis that e-votes aren't legal,

rather than to recount at all? After all, if a case could be made that the e-votes don't count, then that certainly WOULD put the results into doubt, wouldn't it? And they don't count according to the standard set forth by the FL Supreme Court in 2000.

Here again is the relevant part of the FL election law: <snip>
§102.168(3)(c), ... "receipt of a number of illegal votes or rejection of a number of legal votes sufficient to change or place in doubt the result of the election" shall be grounds for a contest.<unsnip>

I know you have done a lot of work on this, Eloriel, and so I am asking in a sort of "fresh eyes on the problem" sort of way. Maybe this has been covered before, I don't know.

[juajen]

64. I have posted this before, and, I reiterate

If enough voters (progressive, certainly, and others) sign a petition vowing not to vote for any incumbent until we have a paper trail, transparency and laws in every state that concur, we can move these rascals forward and out of their tiny box.

[geo]

81. might be better to argue the machines are illegal, but...

a petition sure wouldn't hurt. :) -G

[Debbie13]

117. Florida is just so corrupt. It was so easy for them now that they're

installed into power.

I bet you anything Texas is loaded, too. That was probably ground zero.

[goclark]

87. I like that approach

Make it a NO VOTE IN like a strike in their office.

[LiberalAndProud]

96. What I can't figure out ...

You have to have evidence that a recount would change the results, meaning basically that you have to know the real count (and prove it) before you can ask for a recount.

- crazy -

What's the automatic recount percentage? I'm sure that was a target # for the Hack The Vote Movement.

[goclark]

73. It feels like rabbits are jumping out of the hat! : )

Let's MARCH!

The Greens and libs are really helping us.
What is the verdict?
How late is too late for Florida?

I say,let's go for recounts everywhere!!!

I have never believed that CA was not messed with...Let's March!

[Wordie]

76. Well, I'm just wondering if to contest might be easier, and cheaper, and

not past the deadline, for that matter :) than recounting anyway. If the issue could be made that e-votes cannot be considered legal votes, then a contest is the way to go. Anyone familiar enough with all the ins and outs of FL election law to know if this case could be made? And who *can* contest? Does it have to be a candidate, or can it be any citizen?

I was very concerned when I read that it was too late to ask for a recount in FL, because I think that if nothing else, by filing suit one can draw greater attention to the matter. And a contest would have the same effect. How can anyone defend the legality of a vote that is in essence just ones and zeros in a computer somewhere, with no other auditable verification? So even if a suit such as this were almost certainly to fail, it would be important, imho, to at least take a stab at it, so that more people would become aware.

[goclark]

77. Where are our legal minds, help us on this one!

We need to keep sticking it to them.

Each little law suit will get their temperatures rising.

I don't care who you are,no one wants to be Martha Stewart.

[googly]

83. Exactly! Have we heard from the 17,000 lawyers in Ohio yet?

SOme poster figured out the cost of these lawyers based
on $50/hour....and it amounted to a heckuva lot.

[Ducks In A Row]

44. still won't make them noticed

[bmoney07]

3. i love this monday!!

It just keeps getting better and better!!!

[Wordie]

4. Hooray! Cobb and Badnarik should go down in history books as saviors of

democracy, if not our election system.

[shraby]

11. They're GREAT!!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :loveya: :grouphug: :kick: :bounce: :toast:

[MelissaB]

20. I love them!!

They have the balls the Democratic party should have. I'll never forget this no matter how this all turns out.

[pbartch]

34. You're right. But KERRY & EDWARDS are Heros in my book too

and so are their wives.

[Wordie]

35. No argument there! :) n/t

[Vidar]

36. Cobb and Badnarik are heroes yet again.

[Dancing_Dave]

5. So where's the Democratic Party???

[Nordic]

10. too busy having martinis with Rethuglicans to notice

I fucking hate the Democratic Party now

[Yuugal]

66. thank you

I've been reading this site for a long while and posting for a few months, but if I dared to say what you just did I'd be tomb stoned. Bravo for having the guts to say it. These people begged money from people who could have really used it....just to line their own pockets. "KERRY NEEDS YOU TO HELP! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE SEND MONEY FOR RECOUNTS! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE SO KERRY CAN WIN....WE ONLY HAVE A FEW WEEKS LEFT!" hahahaha Meanwhile, hes got money up the wazoo, I've heard as much as 45 million stashed away, and he surrendered early and hasn't been seen since.

my thoughts:
1) its sucks when someone lies to you, so Kerry talking the talk about counting all the votes and then going AWOL for almost a month since the election just plain REEKS!
2)Dear Jesse, please stfu: there were millions of people watching him on TV, he had his big chance and his big(free) audience to get his message out, and he folded his cards and said he thought the reps won fair and square. Now hes organizing for a recount and we are supposed to follow him blindly into the blender? Screw that and screw you Jesse. Jesse has been damaged goods since they caught him using rainbow coalition funds to take care of his illegitimate kids and his many mistresses. Keep donating your hard earned cash though, lol.
3)people hoping for the MSM to carry a story about voter fraud for more than the usual 15 second American attention span is silly. You might hear a little buzz about the election fraud eventually, but it will be sandwiched in between stories like: Scott Peterson had planned to wear orange shirt instead of blue on the last day of closing arguments, he now blames his lawyer.......and......FETUS NOW RUMORED TO HAVE FLOATED FARTHER AWAY FROM LACI'S BODY THAN ORIGINALLY THOUGHT!
4)we live in a nation of idiots, 40 million of whom still believe god created the earth in 7 days and he did it about 6,000 yrs ago. How the hell are we supposed to convince people that a complex scheme to rig the election happened when they aren't bright enough to make their way through a 6th grade science book?
5) why do democrats like myself keep naively believing that a guy worth 500 million like Kerry gives a damn for us?(see #4) Just another rich guy chuckling with his rich friends over how gullible we are.

You all can call me bitter, its ok, just remember that stolen elections and Kerry's greed and cowardice arent going to help GOTV next time. I kept my tin foil hat on for almost a month now, its time to take it off and realize I was had......by both sides.

[googly]

85. Wow! you are on fire man!!

[Yuugal]

88. yeah my ass is burning!

YEEEEEOUCH! I don't know which burns my ass more:

1)another stolen election

2) the press doing everything they can to keep a lid on the story

3) the thought that we organized so many young Dem's to put down the game controller and go out and vote........and only managed to disappoint them with a candidate who was as spineless as they come.(Yell at me all you want Kerry-lovers, even with cheating he should have been able to beat this bumbling fool of a chimp 70-30 and instead he let himself get bogged down by gays, guns, god and his total inability to take a clear stand on anything. Mental note for Kerry: Just saying, "I have a plan for everything!" is NOT a winning campaign strategy. Having the balls to call Bush a liar to his face would have helped.)

4) the thought that old people are really that dumb and half of them voted to kill social security

5) the thought that so many religious people favor limiting a gay person's rights over the other 99.9% of their favorite book(today's sermon: screw the poor, charity is for suckers, god hates everyone not exactly like us, god likes it when we pretend to know what hes thinking, god loves corporations much more than little people...ughh..)

6) the possibility that Bushco really didn't have to cheat as much as we think he did because we are getting to be a really dumb nation

Nah, its none of the above. What really burns my ass is my own party. They lost control of congress 10 yrs ago but no one seems to have told them yet. Maybe they watch Faux news and don't know it? Either way they keep making the same mistakes over and over and they keep losing over and over but we still see the same doe-eyed faces, blinded by the headlights of the republican-controlled media-industrial-defense-entertainment conglomerate's reality, wobbling feebly this way and that in the wind while this country falls to crap.

Folks, its a hard job trying to love my party leaders as best I can when they suck so very much. If they cant win against a bumbling chimp who has made a complete and total mess of our country in plain view for all to see, just how the hell are they supposed to be of any use to us anymore? Cheating can account for losing a close election but there is no way this thing should have been close in the first place.

During the rep convention someone here posted a pic of some protesters and one of them was holding a sign that said, "Regime change begins at home!" That guy was right. We need to sort out our own party first before we fight the war against stolen votes and the corporate dream-state. The gang that couldn't shoot straight(or talk straight to middle America) needs to go. I was hopeful when the party shied away from Gephardt that maybe we were finally learning that fresh faces and new ideas were needed. Instead the DNC and DLC went from dumb to dumber, and anointed a destined-to-lose northeast liberal. SIGH. Will we ever learn? Next time, how about Feingold for pres? Jon Stewart? Santa? Jesus? They are some of my favorite lefties and at least I wouldn't feel like I wasted my vote and my time on them.

I have no doubt right now the DNC is ecstatic. I'm sure they are happy they got a head start on fund-raising for 08, I'm sure they are happy Kerry wont have to clean up Bush's mess(love that one...NOT), I'm sure they are positively giddy so many new voters came out for their side. If the dem leadership stays true to form they will be totally unaware that many people will never give them a dime again, or that the next dem will have 8 yrs of Bushco's mess to clean up, or that alot of the new voters will most likely never bother to vote again because Kerry folded early and with barely a whimper.

PS- I was a tin-foil hat wearer, and proud of it too, last august when the buzz amongst my leftie friends was that Kerry was playing rope a dope with Bush in regards to the swift-boat liars and not running any response ads. We all thought he had a master plan that would show him for the brilliant tactician and statesmen we hoped he was. Some of us here are still hoping.......but like my father-in-law used to say, "Shit in one hand, and wish in the other, and see which one gets filled first."

[Nordic]

108. YEAH BABY! I'm with you!!!

man, that was a hell of a rant. Two of them.

I'm with you 100%. Bush should have been the easiest president to beat EVER in the history of the planet.

The Dems had four years to deal with e-voting. They failed.

No excuses are accepted. Nada. The Democratic Party couldn't beat a DEAD MAN.

I'm done with them. Done.

May they burn in hell forever.

[googly]

125. AMong the biggest Bushco mess 2004+ will be 2 or 3 repuke supreme

turds they will drop on us. That will take 25 years to clean up.

[jsascj]

6. Wonder if they'll be

Stonewalled there, too?

[tex-wyo-dem]

8. God bless those GLIBS!!

One quote that's disturbing...

"The suit also seeks to address allegations that people employed by Sproul & Associates, an Arizona-based firm hired by the Republican National Committee, tore up and discarded voter registration forms completed by Democratic voters."

Anybody have anything on Sproul & Assoc.?

[ClassWarrior]

14. See what happens when we work together?

We're stronger. What great news.

NGU.

[progressoid]

26. Scumbags

AKA America Votes or Voter Outreach of America. They are responsible for destroying thousands of Dem voter registrations.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1026montini26.html

http://www.accuracy.org/press_releases/PR102104.htm

[Wordie]

84. You know, there's something very odd about that, beyond just the face of

it. Because I believe that there is a poverty-rights group by the name of ACORN, and I'm pretty sure that America Votes was associated with them somehow. So this seems quite strange. Why would a poverty-rights organization be tied in to America Votes if it was funded by the Republicans? I know of few poverty rights organizations that have Republican ties or backing. I just don't get this.

[noonriser]

9. OMG

This is the best news I've seen today! Am truly excited!

:bounce: :bounce:

[New Earth]

12. OMG, THAT IS THE BEST NEWS TODAY!!!!

if Kerry ends up winning this, he better keep some cabinet positions open for these guys doing his dirty work!!!

[spoogly]

27. Probably a couple of positions for

some DU members too!!

[noclonyofthechimp]

13. Excellent! This has been a pretty good day! drip drip drip!

[sabra]

15. Made my day!

Thanks for the post and update...

[Alizaryn]

17. Mine too!

[keepthemhonest]

21. yup I am having a happy drink when I get home

things is lookin up:toast:

[NVMojo]

16. YES!!!!

Of course I am very happy they will look into those paperless machines that were used in Las Vegas ....in spite of the nationwide marketing of SOS Dean Heller's claim that Nevada was all e-maching voting but neglected to say a good portion of voters would be on paperless machines!!!

Thank you, Green Party and friends!!!

[Stand and Fight]

18. Whoa...

I did not see this coming at all... Both New Mexico and Nevada were close wins for the Bush. I'm glad to see that we still do have candidates for office who have balls -- even if they aren't fighting for themselves -- and are true patriots concerned with perserving our democracy. God bless 'em!

[Patsy Stone]

19. Is it Christmas ALREADY?????

Wow, I'm gonna dance and sing...

[AgadorSparticus]

101. if there is a pleasant EC surprise waiting for us in december, i will

UNcancel christmas. as difficult as it will be for me this year, i will find a way to put that freaking christmas tree up. It will be my celebration of light in the midst of evil darkness.

[Patsy Stone]

102. LOL at your name

I love that movie. "Aye, Come on, Gloria..." and "and Albert's practically a breast."

No kidding. No Xmas sprit, no Chanukah spirit. No joy.

[AgadorSparticus]

109. "aay, why didn't you tell me? you bad man! i wouldn't...you know, been

so sassy to you". LOL Love that movie!!

it's really ironic. as of right now, christmas is cancelled in my house. no cookies. no tree. no decorations. no cards. no turkey. nothing. (well, maybe a costco rotisserie chicken in substitute). i just feel the need to scale back, whittle the excesses away, and get back to basics. i'm going through some powerful times and i'm just trying to bear witness to all my experiences. it's pretty awesome.

anyways, it's late and i'm rambling...

[DrDebug]

22. Cool. Goo d news

NM will be fun. If they can't find fraud there then they can't find it anywhere (except for * country like FL and TX of course, but somehow I doubt that there'll be a recount there)

[pointsoflight]

23. Some very suspect things in those two states...

...and both were narrow victories for Bush.

[carolinalady]

24. a question.. If there are no paper trails in Nevada how will

the result be affected by a recount?

[Stand and Fight]

30. No

There were some paper trails even for the machines. It was the only state that has any kind of system of paper and e-voting.

[Kolesar]

31. Yeah, no kidding

Just a short list of sum-totals from each precinct to look at.

[NVMojo]

32. there were paper trails in all of the Nevada rural counties who allegedly

went to Bush. In Las Vegas, where 70% of voters live and the majority are dems, you had a sprinkling of new Sequoias like the rurals, with printers but they still used over 2,000 ten year old Sequoias in the city that did not have printers and couldn't be retrofitted with printers...how convenient....of course. Yet the national media bragged that Nevada had all e-machines with printers ....for this election and Las Vegas will get new Sequoias with printers by 2006.

[TankLV]

92. Where did you get your information. I heard that ALL clark countuy

machines were the same and had paper trails.

[NVMojo]

99. numerous quotes from the Secretary of State and news articles

that said Sequoia could not retrofit the 2,100 ten year old Sequoias located in Vegas before Nov. 2nd. But Heller did promise to put some of his new ones in each precinct for voters who didn't trust the old Sequoia DRE's that didn't have printers that they had been using for ten years.

Where did you get your information?

[Wordie]

38. Excellent question. How can these votes even be proven to have happened,

really. They don't stand up to normal standards of evidence, if all you have is a tape with numbers on it to prove the tallies. So what now? Will there need to be a revote? How can they recount in any meaningful way?

[tinfoil_beret]

62. Actually, this is worse than Florida.

They can't very well subtract the vapor ballots, so they'll certify the elections anyway. Then when it comes time to count the electoral votes... Oops! The states lose that portion of votes and... Bam! The eligible votes add up to a Kerry win.

Since they can't count the votes either way, we'll never know who the People elected. :eyes:

[marions ghost]

63. I thought NV does have a paper trail...?!?

I thought that Nevada was proudly saying they DO have a paper trail...I know I heard they were the only state in the country that had e-voting WITH paper trails....(instead of slime trails)

can anybody explain this.
Any Nevadans?

[marions ghost]

68. Thanks for the clarification, NVmojo

I see NVmojo (post 32) has answered this. So the Dem-leaning precincts did NOT have a paper trail but the solid R areas got the improved machines WITH trail...and would I guess they check out just fine?


I was a victim of spin.

[KoKo]

93. I read a long article which said Nevada was the best state because it

the machines were based on the type of slot machine used in the Casinos and that other states were visiting Nevada to look at their machines!

It was a well written article saying Nevada was the showplace for the new Touch Screen voting with paper trails. :crazy:

What's going on here? Why would other states be looking at their system when the state is a patchwork mess like the rest of the country?

And, why was that article planted. I think I read it here on DU from a link!

[NVMojo]

100. marions ghost, I posted links on here just following the election

about the national spin and what really happened. Heller did nothing to correct this false perception of statewide paper trails. It was almost statewide paper trails with a mixture of both with and without in Vegas.

If you have followed how to hack these machines, those ten year old ones would have been the easiest. And, don't forget, Rove is from Nevada and met with all these state repukes a year ago with Bush to talk about how to run his Nevada campaign. Heller announced the purchase of new Sequoias with HAVA grant money a few weeks after their Bush/Rove meeting. I will see if I can find the links to the news stories.

But you were correct, they bragged about having statewide papertrails, they did but they forgot to say that there were around 2,000 old Sequoias in the largest voter population base, one that is Democrat, that didn't have paper trails. Think about how Rove lies....how he manipulates perception and you will see how this played itself out nationally. Now, then one must ask, why did they not tell the whole truth? Why were they directing national attention away from those paperless DRE's.

I, too, don't understand how any state can prove an election with no physical evidence.

The Nevada Constitution requires a hard copy paper trail for its elections so this past election could be in violation of this. Heller plans to go to the Legislature this year to seek a revision of this need for future election to not require the paper trail.

[marions ghost]

105. Thanx for the true story behind NV spin

Thanks for your excellent explanation, NV Mojo, which further puts the pieces together.

Briefly...do u know how/when did Nevada put the requirement for hard copy trail in the state constitution in the first place, under those repressive conditions? It would be intersting to see the exact wording....

Any idea what the support would be for changing that, since how is it justifiable? What possible <bogus> reason would be given for reversing, after directing national attention to it?

Is NV the only state that has such a requirement in their state constitution, do u know?

Yeah--I see how it works as a cover. I was wondering how Nevada was so smart and progressive to do that. Smoke and mirrors.

[SnoopDog]

106. Please refer to post #103!

If I may, I have some thoughts on your questions in your post. I am not really sure ‘how’ Nevada establishes a NRS but I bet it is very legal-like. The when part is easy – ‘Current as of January, 2004’. And, I am not sure as to the restraining condition you mentioned.

I would imagine that any idea that finally enters lawfully into the Nevada Revised Statutes would be analyzed and justified. I do believe that, indeed, Nevada is the only state that requires a paper trail on all mechanical voting devices.

Regards

[NVMojo]

107. the Nevada Constitution has not been amended to reflect the NRS

there is a difference from what I understand. I don't have time to look this up right now but there was a news article in the past few months talking about what Heller needed to do in the next legislative session to change this.

Thanks for the post, btw.

Here is one link I found but not the one on the constitutional change. This refers to a law change.

edit:

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63618,00.html

Although the VeriVote printers will be used in every Nevada county, only about 30 percent of Nevada's voters will vote on them. That's because Clark County, home of Las Vegas with 70 percent of the state's population, owns an older model of Sequoia touch-screen machines that can't be modified. The county will have to install at least one new machine with a printer in each polling place to give voters the option of having a paper trail. But Clark County won't have enough new paper-trail machines to accommodate more than a fraction of voters, and the deadline for replacing the remaining machines is the federal election in 2006.
The machines and procedures for using them need to be in place by Aug. 21, when early voting for the Sept. 7 primary begins. If the printers don't pass testing, the seven rural counties that plan to use them exclusively will get Sequoia optical-scan equipment instead. These machines require voters to fill out a paper ballot with a pen before it's scanned into an electronic machine.
Snip..

Although Nevada voters may take comfort in their new printers, there is a glitch in the plan. Under Nevada law, if the election results have to be recounted, the printed ballots would not be used because they don't meet the current specifications for paper ballots. Current law refers only to standard-size paper ballots that voters use for absentee, provisional or optical-scan voting.
Stanford's Dill said a paper record is pointless if officials aren't required to count it.
"It is crucial that paper ballots have precedence over electronic records," he said. "The voters had a chance to verify the paper ballots but not the electronic records, so the paper ballots are more trustworthy."
The Nevada legislature could eventually change the law to accommodate the new technology, but the legislature meets only every other year and won't be in session again until February 2005.

[SnoopDog]

113. Nor should it be - it doesn't work that way

The Nevada Constitution is similar to the Constitution of the USA – it defines such things as the legislative bodies and the like. However, the NV Constitution does not have language on public elections. The Nevada Revised Statutes act as the main rulebook with the Nevada Election Regulations (NAC) being more specific as per NRS 293.247.

And, according to NRS 293.2696, there is not a glitch in using the paper trail. As per subparagraph 4: ‘Provides a permanent paper record with a manual audit capacity which must be available as an official record for a recount;’.

I am curious where you got your information – do you have a link under the <snip>? I am simply reading from the Nevada Revised Statutes.

Regards

[SnoopDog]

103. For your review... NV Revised Statutes

2003 Nevada Revised Statutes

Current as of January, 2004

NRS 293B.032 “Mechanical recording device” defined. “Mechanical recording device” means a device:
1. Which mechanically or electronically compiles a total of the number of votes cast for each candidate and for or against each measure voted on; or
2. To which a list of offices and candidates and the statements of measures to be voted on may be affixed and into which a card may be inserted so that the votes cast for each candidate and for or against each measure may be indicated by punching the card with reference to the list.
(Added to NRS by 1985, 1098)

NRS 293B.082 Record of votes cast; record printed on paper. Each mechanical voting system must provide a record of the votes cast on that system. The record must be printed on paper.
(Added to NRS by 1995, 2785)

<eom>

[keepthemhonest]

25. alright where do we donate for these two states? n/t

[KoKo]

94. Here: You can donate and volunteer to help recount if you can get there..

No matter what your political party, if you believe that the price of a robust democracy is eternal vigilance, then we need your help with the vote recounts in Ohio, New Mexico and Nevada.

OHIO: No one can say for sure how this process will play out. The beginning and ending dates of the recount, as well as all procedural decisions not spelled out in Ohio election law, are completely in the hands of Kenneth Blackwell , the Ohio Secretary of State and the head of President Bush's Ohio campaign. Our best guess is that the recount will begin close to December 13th since a federal court judge denied our request for an expedited count. For this reason, we would request that you be as flexible in your scheduling and geographic placement as possible. See if you can take several days or a week off from work or school. If you are a senior citizen or a college student with a flexible schedule, we need your help.

NOTES: In Nevada, we expect the recount to take place between December 6 - 10th. In New Mexico, we expect the recount to take place between December 9 - 17th. Please give us alternate dates so that we can make the best use of all of our volunteers. Let us know all of the skills and experiences you bring to the task. And, by all means, please be sure to ask your friends and family to make a contribution so that we can pay the expenses of this historic undertaking.

http://web.greens.org/c/cobb/supporters.cgi?function=volunteer&process=7

[Jersey Devil]

28. Confirmed! It's all over the cobb website

http://www.votecobb.com

[tex-wyo-dem]

33. I love the header on Cobb's web site...

Cobb/LaMarche - Really making every vote count

[progressoid]

29. Outstanding!

I can see NM going to Kerry but I think too much damage was done in NV before the election. Maybe they can just get those Sproul bastards arrested.

I did a little google of sproul and one link went to freeperville. They posted an article by Paul Krugman about sproul. All they did was bitch about Krugman - no mention of the despicable acts their own people committed. Attack the messenger ignore the message. Typical.

[Quakerfriend]

37. Bravo!

-just when my I was beginning to give up hope!

[flyarm]

39. yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! i love them!!!!!

hugs and kisses to Cobb and Badnarik!!!!!!!!!! i am in love!!!!!!

[jamboi]

40. Go Greens Go! (what, me biased?) ;-) n/t

[dewaldd]

41. awesome

[Carl Brennan]

42. I hope this unifies the Greens and Dems.

The former is really a beckon of sanity in this chaotic mess we call elections.

[hootinholler]

74. Unify???

Um, I think I just became a Green, even though my version of tree hugging involves a deer stand ;) So I'm probably more a 'tarian.

[Stand and Fight]

45. Pray People Pray

I don't know exactly what faith everyone on the board subscribes to or even if many subscribe to one at all, but I am asking that everyone continue the hard work and pray that we get our rightful president in office. If I offended anyone by saying this I apologize in advance, and if you don't agree with my post don't respond to it.

[Jersey Devil]

46. I shall ask for the mystical guidance of Yoda (nt)

x

[geo]

48. Pray for election overturn, save the world we shall. :)

The Bushes show the Star Wars story as if Luke HAD joined Vader. :) Yoda would be onto them like white on rice. -G

(edited for more authentic Yoda impression)

[Stand and Fight]

54. Sho' 'nuff.

You and me both buddy, you and me both.

[texpatriot2004]

49. I will join you stand and fight.

I think you posted that message in a very kindly and considerate way. Kudos to you.

[Stand and Fight]

55. Remember the founding of our country?

United we stand, divided we fall.
I've very privileged to have patriots like you and the others on this board with me spiritually, emotionally, and politically. Together we can take America back and ensure its place in history.

[texpatriot2004]

79. The feeling is mutual. I am grateful for the camaraderie here

and look forward to making history with you. Peace.

[WiseFawn]

47. WooHoo!!

What wonderful news! It might be a long time before I vote Democratic again, if it keeps on like this!

[geo]

51. Did anyone send to Kieth Obermann yet?

I don't want to send multiple e-mails on this. :) -G

[Wordie]

53. Yep...I just did. But go ahead and send another. Redundancy is everything.

The whole issue with e-voting, after all, is there is no way to know for sure if the e-vote really registered. And so with email....

[geo]

70. cool. Thanks Wordie. :)

:) - G

[Pepper32]

56. YES! This should begin soon. correct? As the votes are certified...

...in NM and NV (I think)

[Jo March]

58. This is getting better and better and better

I need to update my website instead of spending all of my time here! LOL! The dripping is starting to turn into a steady stream!

Go Greens! I love you guys! I've been interested in Green policies since I was a kid and read an article about GreenPeace. This is awesome! Out of the shit comes a flower.

Awesome, awesome news. This is just great.

[Blissfulbride]

60. This is exciting news. . .

I would really like to see the pres. election overturned but I'm concerned we won't get the recounting done in time before the electoral college votes.

What happens if say, 3 or 4 months into the 2nd Bush term, we can prove fraud and/or that Kerry is the rightful elected US President? How do we get the shrub out of the oval office and Pres. Kerry in? Does anyone know how that would occur?

Also, The GLibs don't say anything on their site about raising funds for these 2 recounts. Don't they need more money? I have no problem donating again -- anything to correct this election theft.

[Guava Jelly]

65. After the electors vote and they are read aloud in congress

fraud be damned the person with the most electoral votes win..
No matter what now if we had the house and senate we would be able to fight... but we dont

[jamboi]

67. No way. If fraud is uncovered now even the electors will be effected

and hence what gets opened from those envelopes, and furthermore congress has to approve the vote, so there are many steps along the way. Take heart, it is quite possible that we will have elected President Kerry, when the election is over (ie. its a LONG way from being over).

[geo]

71. was wondering the same thing myself...

but I didn't see anything about more money needed on the site. :) - G

[Pooka Fey]

75. Yeah Baby YEAH !!!

[The Flaming Red Head]

78. Gotta love em and I need a new party these days.

Being a southern red headed pro-choice liberal. I'm a bit of a step child to the Dems.

[jamboi]

91. May I suggest the Greens? ;-) You might check gp.org & see if local GP

are in your neck of the woods. http://www.gp.org For more on the recount effort go to Presidential candidate David Cobb's campaign web site: http://www.voteCobb.org

[Razorback_Democrat]

82. LOL Check the Yahoo Message Boards!

on this article

the right wingnuts are going bananas

Kerry has been smart to stay out of it if that indeed is his plan.

[texpatriot2004]

104. I think you're right, it's smart for him not to be the one attacked

for the time being.

[Gyre]

86. $100 clams to the GP

Why the hell not?

Gyre

[ailsagirl]

89. Fantastic!! Thanks for the info

[floridadem30]

90. kick

[Straight Shooter]

95. Finally, a suit addressing those RSB Sproul & Associates

Rotten Stinkin' Bastards

Thanks for the good news! More money out of my pocket and into the coffers of democracy. Liberty ain't cheap.

:dem:

[joeunderdog]

118. These people should not be able to operate without doing the

registration on duplicate paper so that everyone can have a (numbered, trackable) receipt for when they signed up.

[dzika]

98. Judge to rule Tuesday on part of challenge to Bush victory in Nevada

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/11/29/state1956EST0121.DTL

Judge to rule Tuesday on part of challenge to Bush victory in Nevada

SCOTT SONNER, Associated Press Writer
Monday, November 29, 2004

-snip-
A judge intends to decide Tuesday whether to allow a legal
challenge to move forward aimed at blocking Nevada's five
electoral votes from being cast next month for President
Bush.

Washoe County District Judge Peter Breen said Monday he's
considering setting an evidentiary hearing to determine
whether there are grounds to keep the votes from Bush -- who
carried Nevada by 21,500 votes -- due to allegations of voter
registration fraud and claims some voting machines
malfunctioned.

-snip-
"President Bush is claiming he has a mandate and included in
that is that the state of Nevada stood behind him. Even if
Nevada's five electoral votes will not change the election, it
does have an impact on whether Nevada is part of that
mandate," Dickerson said.


`If there are disenfranchised voters who were illegally
disenfranchised ... then those voters are not having their will
voiced," he said.

[NVMojo]

110. this is incomplete but a start on the paperless machines in Vegas

and some background into Nevada repuke politics.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x91982

I have to be up in a few hours so caio or however it's spelled!

[fujiyama]

111. This is good

but I doubt either state will flip. There is some chance in NM changing because it was within 5-6K votes, but NV was a much larger margin.

Either way, even in the very unlikely scenario both states switch, it still wouldn't be enough to give Kerry enough electoral votes.

Unless there is some major smoking gun that clearly shows Kerry got more votes than Bush in OH, this election is over and Bush will be innaugerated in January. Even the provisional ballot count in OH isn't going as well as hoped for.

[ZRB]

112. What about Iowa?

That state was fairly close.

If Iowa, Nevada, and New Mexico flipped, Kerry and Bush would be tied 269-269, and the possibility of an elector defecting could be very real.

But that will never happen. All thoughts must be on Ohio.

[NVMojo]

114. I see your point but ...add these states into the list of states

where voters can't be assured an honest election was conducted no matter who won...

[FullCountNotRecount]

115. 5,000 votes switched in Iowa give it to Kerry

and with the West Virginia elector who said he would not vote for Bush that would be 269-268-1..I don't know if 269 would be a majority in that case.

[ZRB]

116. No

We'd need him to switch to Kerry. It's stupid, but with 269-268-1, the vote would go to the House.

[tinfoil_beret]

119. But...

If they block Nevada's 5 electors, the needed majority falls to 268, and Bush will only have 263. Guess who wins? (See Section One of Article Two of the United States Constitution.)

[geo]

120. an elector will not vote for Bush? Really???

I must have missed this. Link? :) -G

[Vidar]

122. I think it's in W. Virginia. No link.

[geo]

123. about the defecting W. Virginia elector Richie Robb

I did a quick yahoo! search and saw a Nov. 3rd article link preview (though the link didn't take me to a story) that said the elector was starting to lean towards Mr. Bush. Also, I saw a web page listing from ABC dated September that said he wouldn't use the vote for Sen. Kerry, but was considering just plain witholding it.

That's the scoop. :) -G

[Vidar]

124. Thanks for the update. Liked the old version better though.

[geo]

127. Me too..

:) -G

[geo]

121. still...

if Sen. Kerry is entitled to the vote in these states, then we should work on getting these states flipped. :) -G

[dzika]

126. ABQjournal: Recount Sought In New Mexico's Presidential Election

http://www.abqjournal.com/elex/aprecount11-30-04.htm

Recount Sought In New Mexico's Presidential Election

By Barry Massey
The Associated Press

-snip-
Green Party nominee David Cobb and Libertarian candidate Michael
Badnarik want a recount in all precincts and a recheck of voting
machines to ensure an accurate count of presidential ballots, said
Blair Bobier, a spokesman for the Cobb campaign.

"We feel that for protection of the voting process and ensuring that
people have not only the right to vote but to have their vote count,
that a recount is warranted," Bobier said Tuesday in a telephone
interview.

[Lil]

128. kick

[senegal1]

130. kick

[cyn2]

129. Deleted by me.....n/t

[senegal1]

131. kick

[Left Brain]

132. bump up

:kick: