I'm floored about all of this.

[johnnie]

I can't understand what is going on. I read as much as this stuff as I can and know that things are happening, but how in the hell has none of this been top story news?
I just checked my local (Cleveland) paper and there was not one mention of anything going on in Ohio concerning recounts. A few minutes ago I mentioned it to some of my fellow employees and they didn't even raise their heads.
What blows my mind is that when the one season of American Idol had a discrepancy, the American people were in a fucking panic and were reading to storm the television station. Now here we are with positive proof that there was election frauds and irregularities, and people don't seem to give a shit.
Those repugs who claim that we are so un-American can kiss my fucking ass. The people here at DU have worked their asses off to see that the people's right to vote were not shat on, and those assholes don't give a shit. Tell me who the true American patriots are.
I'm sorry for the crappy writing, but I am just a little pissed at the lack of interest in what has been discovered in this election. I'm not saying I am giving up or I think that anyone is wasting their time, I'm just ranting about how things are and how many people have their heads that far up their ass.

[Dora]

1. Go Johnnie, go johnnie, go!

Oh, just go shopping, spend some money. You'll feel better.

[truehawk]

2. People are AFRAID

it is a scary thing when the people in power will do anything to keep it.

[Generator]

55. Exactamundo

And what do you get called if you say "I think the election wasn't totally fair or maybe even the results were not what they told us."
??
You get called a "conspiracy theorist" which is a nice way of dismissing everything you have to say and basically saying:

You ARE NUTS.

[AuntiBush]

3. RE: Fox

I finally started getting curious as to what Fox was airing, so I tuned in to Hanitty and Colmes last night. Well, they had Ann Coulner on and I felt so ill. There she was laughing, grinning, making statements like "give me cowboys and middle America anyday..." and on and on. Alan Colmes had his handsfull, and tried his best, though I feel he's like their hired kicking board, nevertheless Alan did manage to call her "arrogant" a few times, yet there she was, smiling, grinning and saying we're better than Canadians and most of the world.

If you sit back long enough, eventually (maybe) they'll hang themselves with their arrogant bantor.

[LisaLynne]

4. What continually amazes me ...

is how easy it is to be totally insulated from what's really going on in the world. If it weren't for DU, I would have NO idea about the recount efforts, the fraud (I would have my own suspicions, but that would amount to less than a hill of beans) or anything. It's really sort of bizarre when you think about how easily it is to control the information the vast majority of the public is aware of, even when most people have some access to the Internet.

[ClassWarrior]

5. So when's the rally you're planning?

If people aren't spontaneously taking to the streets, then someone needs to plan a rally. And since your hand went up first, I pick YOU.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

7. By the way, the people and the Dems aren't the enemies.

The Radical Rightwing and the corporate media whores are at fault here. But we can force their hand.

:evilgrin:

NGU.

[nashville_brook]

35. you know, i feel what you say, but

it takes leadership to take to the streets -- and i think it's a fundamentally different kind of leadership than the amorphous, non-local leadership we experience on our internet forums.

Thom Hartmann's article, How To Take Back A Stolen Election was a big wak-up for me.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1129-26.htm

In it he points out the Ukraine protests are a Bushco creation and that effective protests are planned way before the election.

One of the keys to making the program work is tight organization and planning before the election begins. The resistance movement is carefully branded with a single-phrase slogan such as "He's Finished" or "High Time," and an uncomplicated logo is designed - like the fist used in Serbia or the ticking clock used in Ukraine - that's easily reproduced on posters and stencil-spray-painted in public places.



And, although evidence of fraud and vote rigging in the 2004 US election is mounting today, there was no widespread mobilization like the ones we encouraged in other nations or saw in Florida in 2000. Thus, it's extremely unlikely national institutions like the mainstream media, Congress, or the Supreme Court will seriously challenge or even expose to the general public the many deficiencies of this election.

Because the Democratic party and progressive activists failed to plan a PR response to election-rigging in Florida and Ohio (among other states), such efforts (and some damning and shocking new revelations) are now being carried in "new media" like the internet by folks like Bev Harris, Greg Palast, and Bob Fitrakis, and in foreign media like New Zealand's "The Scoop", and the BBC.

Many Democrats and progressives believe now is the time for national advocacy groups to organize an effort similar to the one our nation has been promulgating in the former Soviet states and the Republicans used in Florida in 2000. The blueprint is laid out in Ian Traynor's article in The Guardian at www.guardian.co.uk/ukraine/story/0,15569,1360236,00.html, and the template is both simple, straightforward, and already demonstrated to work.

IMO, it's not OUR fault -- it's not the Dem party's fault -- we DECIDED not to protest. we put our energy into observation and other legal means. it's not over yet.

[nolabels]

45. We wanted to be sure there was justice and fairness in the election

We watched, we observed, we checked and everywhere we looked there was none, no justice and fairness to be found. The last election might have been on the house, this one is for all THEIR marbles, and so did you think they would give them up. The whole situation is untenable in any real democracy.

At this time I see no need to make a commitment to force anything other than the basic tenants of being moral. I don't want to go back to way things were. I also think this is what some of or most of that 1% are expecting. This I think what this 1% wants us to do, everybody to long for the good ole days. They seem to also set up camp to make sure this does not happen and the people don't get anything back. The way foreword is a new paradigm. To go around them is possible and will be necessary if things are going to get done.

This thing called the vote should be an ancillary function in any real democracy, not a start all- end all, worth fighting for to be sure, but is only one part of us. The sum total of the elected official have not been working for the people they represent as of late but only jockeying for that next position or figuring what they can take away from it. To me that would be the definition of corruption.

We are in era much as of the Gilded Age would be my thinking. I think the mistake the progressives made back then was believing bigger powers (IE. government) could crush the robber barons forever. It didn't, they just waited in the backwoods for another day. To win against the largest things, the power of small is needed. This is the power which is everywhere, without it there is no substance. Our power of the small is people power, they cannot match it, but they always try to control it. We are in that battle irregardless if we want to be or not. We are basically being told BTPTB you answer to us or else. I say take special and careful aim with your shots, others are also depending on you to do a good job at it, whatever it is :-)


JOHN LENNON lyrics - "Power To The People"


Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Say you want a revolution
We better get on right away
Well you get on your feet
And out on the street

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

A million workers working for nothing
You better give 'em what they really own
We got to put you down
When we come into town

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

I gotta ask you comrades and brothers
How do you treat you own woman back home
She got to be herself
So she can free herself

Singing power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on
Now, now, now, now

Oh well, power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Yeah, power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people
Power to the people, right on

http://www.inlyrics.com/lyrics/J/John%20Lennon/50852.html

[Helga Scow Stern]

50. We need to apply some of these principles...

we DO need to start getting out to demonstrations. I hope as many show up in Ohio as can go this weekend.

The idea of a symbol and "branding" has been discussed, and needs more input.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=98734
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x98381

I love the idea of RHF Red Hands and Feet, the Red Hands and Feet Movement.

There is energy in the feet, energy for marching, and energy in the hands for taking back what is rightfully ours--our voice, our power, our right to have elected officials who represent US.

The red hands and feet also represent the foot prints and fingerprints left all over the scene of the crime.

It is up to us, and we have to use everything at our disposal, with integrity, of course.

[Stand and Fight]

6. You and me both buddy.

Here's an email I sent off to a co-worker here at work:

Everything in our country has gone topsy-turvy, Al. This example is just another glaring sign that we have entered into Bizarro World! The hypocrisy that is gripping this nations military, economic, social and political streams speak volumes for the immanent meltdown of equality and democracy. It's as if the whole damn nation has lost its collective heads and hearts. Heads because no one seems to be informed of the issues that presently occupy our country, and hearts because no one seems to really care enough to care. In my book, the people who are not concerned about the issues, especially the many reports of election day irregularities, are every bit as stupid and accountable for the direction this country is going as those who voted the bastard Bush in office again. If one doesn't care that thousands of people were disenfranchised, that their votes were tossed out and not counted, then in my book they can go to hell along with the Bushies.

[ClassWarrior]

10. The American people aren't the enemy. See post #7 above.

Keep your eye on the prize. The corporate media whores are the enemy in this case. People can't react to what they aren't told.

(edited for civility - point taken)

NGU.

[Stand and Fight]

11. Wait a minute!

I have told people at work and I have informed them where they can go to access they information. On several occasions, I have been told point blank by DEMOCRATS, "I don't care -- there's nothing we can do about it anyway." So, don't come preaching to me about "people can't react to what they aren't told." Take your "duh" and shove it.

ON EDIT:
Snide little remarks like that will get you nowhere fast with people. It was completely uncalled for and totally belittled the crux of your message.

[ClassWarrior]

25. It's not going to take every Democrat to get fired up.

Just the right ones. And without the media, we can't reach them all very efficiently. That's why I suggest organizing a rally. Work with your local peace or Progressive group. They have mailing lists of people who are likely to care.

NGU.

[Stand and Fight]

27. You make good points.

Thanks for the advice. I will endeavor to do that again, but it seems as if the cows are more concerned about our democracy than the Democrats in Oklahoma. Trust me, I'm very politically active. But I will try, try, try again! I guest I should remember your signature --Never give up! I'll keep that in mind.

[Quakerfriend]

14. I'm with you all

But, the media black-out has really opened my eyes to just how powerful they really are...And, reminded me of the urgency of the situation in the country. When I've mentioned to people what's happening behind the scenes they seem stunned and shocked...and all at once wanting to hear more, hungry for more info. We must rally in the streets NOW! Let's go Philly!

[pnutchuck]

8. I agree

I came home specifically to vote. I live in Paris, France and wanted to be part of the process. I was back in Paris watching the election results, and was crushed to see that those asses did it again! I just couldn't believe it. I checked all the internet news to find out what the hell happened and only found little snippes telling me that "The Democrats Cry Fraud" as if we're paranoid conspiricists. It's difficult to find any mentions in the main stream US media about legitimate fraud, without Democrats being painted as sore losers. Funny though, here in Paris and across Europe, they are following the fraud investigations quite closely.

[roseBudd]

9. There was an AP story when the story first broke.

Newspapers don't update most stories unless there is a significant update.

[pnutchuck]

15. But what about TV media?

They repeat the same news throughout the day, "A dog lost in Nevada, returned home to Sacramento after being gone for more than 2 weeks", and other human interest shit like that. Isn't democracy tampering big enough news to keep alive?

[skylarmae]

12. I mentioned a couple of discrepancies this past Holiday and

was rudely called a conspiracy theorist (behind my back, of course) by none other than family repukes

[pnutchuck]

18. My repuke family flat out told me to stop to sending them my

"liberal views"

[Straight Shooter]

20. NEVER let them get away with labeling you and not addressing the message

Ask them what they are so afraid of that they have to resort to name-calling in order to end the argument.

Also remind them that "conspiracy" is a bait word, and it's a knee-jerk response, one-size-fits-all accusation against anyone who thinks the election is tainted. Pavlov's dog could come up with a better response than to holler "conspiracy theory."

Also remind them that those who first investigated Watergate were accused of conspiracy. Tell them the Boston Tea Party was a conspiracy. So was Paul Revere's ride. Two boys agreeing to spread rumors about a girl in high school, with the agenda of ruining her reputation, are engaging in a conspiracy.

There is nothing cloak-and-dagger about a conspiracy. It happens all the time.

Crap, I forgot what I was originally going to respond to the OP :)

edit: add more because I'm a little roll here

[pnutchuck]

29. I just gave up with them

They live in Texas and call them self Christian conservatives. I'm constantly sending my cousin emails about my life and where I'm at now. She hasn't replied in 2 years. They were just in my group mail and were receiving my forwards about the environment and other dem issues. I'm an artist here in Paris, and decided to do a portrait of Maya Angelou, and sent out her Poem that she recited at Clinton's inaugeration in '96. The first reply I receive in 2 yrs is "If you want to tell us what's going on your life, that's fine, but keep your liberal views and conspiracy theories to yourself." I was so crushed, I did send back a very intelligent reply that amounted to his lack of intelligence and the right to free speach, and if he doesn't want to read something, he does have a delete button. I've since taken them out of my mailing group and haven't heard from my aunt since then either.

[Straight Shooter]

44. Don't give up without a fight

If you're willing to take the risk of standing up to them and risk losing having them in your life forever, then let them have it with both barrels!

Trying to deal with family members who insist on shutting you down while you're taking the high road can lead to a lot of stress-related problems. Maybe it's my Italian heritage, but I can only take so much and then -- BAM!! -- I let loose a verbal volley that leaves no doubt where I stand.

Liberal, my ass. It's a fuckin' LABEL! I am more than a liberal, I am more than a two-dimensional label, and so are you.

Some members of my family refuse to deal with me because I wouldn't follow their self-righteous "everyone is going to hell but us" path. Other members of my family think I'm the greatest thing since sliced bread because I'm not afraid to speak up.

We went through this in the Civil War, and the South lost, remember? They'll lose again, but not if we're so concerned about family ties that we're willing to let the whole country go under. Blood is thicker than water, but integrity is thicker than blood.

Just my 2 cents. Someone please shove me off my soapbox cuz I hate it when I pontificate :)

edit: when I refer to "the South" I'm referring to the mentality of "God hates you" and "Jesus loves me" and good vs evil and the earth is 10,000 years old and all that blah-blah-blah stupidity, which that sort of ignorance seems to breed more rampantly in the South. I used to live there, East Tennesse. I speak from experience.

[ClassWarrior]

33. You're never going to convince Radical RWers.

We need to seek out people who are sympathetic to this cause.

NGU.

[pnutchuck]

34. That would be us here at the DU

[ClassWarrior]

38. There's a lot more of us than those at DU.

We're just the vanguard. Get with your local peace or Progressive groups, Dem and Green Parties, DFA, etc., and spread the word there.

NGU.

[SueZhope]

13. Its not easy

Its interesting that you shared this today....
I sent an email to my friend about .... Jackson,& the lawsuit that Kerry
people are involved with and she said.....

"Why isn't it in the news."......(I wanted to SCREAM) people just don’t get who owns the media and that they care nothing about the TRUTH and reporting.....
Its all about surface BS.....and the $$$$$
It drives me nuts

My friend also said......"I'm over it" stop sharing this stuff ........does that mean she is over Democracy?

People believe unless its on the crap shit news that its real....they think the TV is the almighty.....people do not understand that there Media & government has failed them.....

Thank god for you all here at DU.....

[Quakerfriend]

26. Ha! "Does that mean she is over Democracy?"

Very well put! Even my kids are in the know.... My 11 year old had to give a definition of the word "tyrant" for vocabulary....And, he said BUSH! I suppose, as Ralph Nader has said, things are going to have to get a lot worse for the average American to wake up! Keep the faith people. We must.

[Stand and Fight]

31. Yeah, exactly...

It's yet another case of historical and political amnesia. I bet she'll give a damn when they start drugging her kids, monitoring her communications, and intruding on her rights! People think freedom is free, and they take it for granted. Thank God for people like us who are willing to take the name calling, the laughing, and the general disrespect to keep freedom alive! True American patriots? How about true protectors of freedom and democracy? Yes, the latter fits all of us here very nicely.

[SueZhope]

47. Then that same friend said this in an email

"you are right, there are also a lot of people out there that DON"T want to know the true news, all the covert goings on, would rather not know all the depressing stuff... the truth would be good, but some of the stuff I just don't' think we need to know."

That says it all ....who needs that nasty kind of stuff like the TRUTH
denial is much safer

Maybe she and others will wake up when they start burning witches again.

[mostly_lurking]

16. There is no "positive proof" as of yet

That is the problem, and why the MSM and the public largely roll their eyes at all this. So far all that exists are suspicions about fraud. "Irregularities" always occur and aren't going to be taken seriously unless fraud can really be proven.

I have felt all along that the only chance for overturning the election would be if fraud could be proven (through hand recounts). To date, however, the recounts done (in Florida and New Hampshire) have done more to disprove fraud than prove it.

[stevietheman]

39. Disproving it is just as important...

as proving it. If Bush really did win, and fraud was indeed minimal or nonexistent, then at least we can go back to work to expand beyond our 48% and "get Bush" in the 2006 Congressional elections. And, we can continue to work to ensure that voting machines and results are accurate and verifiable.

It's just important to _know_ one way or the other, for everyone's peace of mind.

[Duncan]

40. If the exit poll data was released

and the MSM reported on the statistical analysis, I think that would be proof enough for most of the public, if only the heard it from some talking heads on TV.

[mostly_lurking]

41. I think the exit poll angle is falling flat

The purpose of the NH recount was to show the exit polls were correct and the vote was rigged. The results, however, show the voting machines were very accurate and the exit polls were way off.

[unpossibles]

17. I can understand your grief

but as already said, do not blame the person who has been fooled (even when it can be easy to do so).

We need to heal our country and the democratic process STAT.

I do agree, however, that a lot of people not only don't seem to care, but get annoyed when I mention it, and I have been told by some that they "do not care" if it was stolen. I can't wrap my brain around that one at all.

I think we (as a culture) have been so accustomed to being led around by a noose, that we don't know we're on the way to the gallows. Jackson gets accused of rabble rousing, yet he is following in the footsteps of the people, not the other way around. The same people who accuse me of blindly following what my evil "liberal college professors" force feed me, are seemingly guilty of being force fed info from MSM and not digesting it properly.

And I do get discouraged that people seem to care more about who gets kicked off Survivor than a right that many have died to gain, but the answer is to keep speaking out - they have learned BS from repetition, and need to be deprogrammed, a process which many find uncomfortable.

[Stand and Fight]

22. Good Points

Thanks for posting that, for while I had thought it myself I had become blinded by my own anxiety about the subject. You helped me to refocus. Thanks!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gorbal]

21. We need to get out in the streets like they are in the Ukraine

CASE is organizing a rally this Saturday-

http://caseohio.home.mindspring.com/

If you really mean it, be there!!!!

[Stand and Fight]

24. I'll be there

Hi, I live in Oklahoma and am willing to make the 15 hour drive. Do you live near Columbus per chance?

[gorbal]

37. No

Which is why I am so crazy posting about it on these boards. I don't drive and live in MASS:(

People need to either keep posting on the this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=78747&mesg_id=78747

Or start another one with "Saturday" in it's title. I don't know if I am allowed.

[grueven]

23. well put!

The top stories on my local news have been SHOPPING and Scott Peterson...since friday now. Is it that the local media thinks that the folks in rural virginia can't deal with real news?! or that they think we don't care?!

beginning to wonder if the beauty of the mountains down here is worth the overwhelming ignorance...

[NJCher]

28. Boston Globe

has four pages of coverage at their site on voting fraud.


Cher

[Stand and Fight]

32. Link?

Can you give us a direct link please?

[NJCher]

54. URL

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/graphics/2004vote/


Cher

[newyawker99]

49. Hi grueven!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ccarter84]

30. whoa american idol was rigged?

good thing I don't watch that stuff and occasionally take sabbaticals from newspapers and tv all together

[skids]

53. That was hilarious.

That's a great line about American Idol, johnny. I hope you don't mind if we all mercilessly steal it from you.

[LiveInHope]

36. We need a big name (like Kerry) to step forward

JJ's participation helped a little but until we get some backing from the "big boys" in our party the MSM can just ignore us. If Kerry stepped forward I don't doubt it would be all over the news. Where is everybody?!

[Wordie]

42. Actually, he (Kerry) just did (yesterday), albeit without much fanfare.

Check out this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x94805

It may be that he still wants to be fairly quiet about it.

[wiggs]

43. Scary: there are no investigative journalists with MSM

First, journalists should be all over this. That they are not is indicative of the state of the media in the US. Foreign media is much more on top of this than we are. It looks like there's nothing we can do about this situation on short notice now. We'll need top political figures to get involved, or a credible whistleblower, or hard proof of fraud in order for this to get legs in the media. They are not on our side, so even then the news will get spun away from the truth.

Second, I'm also disturbed that our democratic leaders in congress are silent. Where are the reps and senators from Ohio? What kind of investigations are they calling for? Why aren't Boxer, Wexler, Kennedy, Byrd, and others pounding on election office doors demanding access to poll books, machines, and other records? Are they calling for FBI involvement?

We aren't crazy. What we see is real: enough irregularities to warrant a very close look at the election. But this is an uphill battle against forces, policies, and entrenched power that took decades to put in place.

Bad sports analogy:

Some of the referees are on the take, we have fewer players on the field than the other team, the scoreboard operator is corrupt, the announcers are biased, sports reporters aren't watching the game, and even the coaches on our side don't appear interested. Amazingly, our team is only down a touchdown, but time is running out. How do we win?

[weeve]

46. Reporting for Duty

Does anyone else thing that this:

.... And if a huge story breaks, "I'll report for duty" ...

is a not-so-veiled reference to John "Reporting for Duty" Kerry , and his possible win of an Ohio recount ?!? Tom knows what's up. Perhaps it's up to us to start the ball rolling this Saturday in Columbus. Give ol' Tom that huge story he's chomping at the bit for !

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Brokaw Ends 'Nightly News' Anchor Role

By FRAZIER MOORE, AP Television Writer

NEW YORK - Tom Brokaw ends almost 23 years at the anchor desk Wednesday night, as he signs off "NBC Nightly News" for the last time.

Making good on an exit plan announced in May 2002, Brokaw, 64, is stepping away from daily journalism to pursue his varied other interests, including more time on his Montana ranch. But his NBC association will continue under an agreement to host at least three documentaries a year.

And if a huge story breaks, "I'll report for duty," he told The Associated Press recently. "It doesn't mean I'll go back to what I did before. They'll have to find a new role for me."

[johnnie]

48. Thank you everyone for the replies

I would have sat here and rapped w/ you all, but the power went out at work and they kept us there until they decided that 5 hours was long enough.
I really was pissed and it was great to read all these posts.

[OhioChick]

51. The Plain Dealer

hasn't mentioned shit. I cancelled the paper, it's a waste. From what I can see, most people aren't that aware of what's happened. I had to direct my family here to DU, as well as other sites to get the real story. Since then, they've all cancelled the "Pain Dealer" as well.

[johnnie]

52. I canceled it a long time ago

I was reading it on the table at work and only to see if they had anything to say about this.

[HeyManThatsCool]

56. Johnnie

Ok... I confess. When I got to the part where you said this in your post

" What blows my mind is that when the one season of American Idol had a discrepancy, the American people were in a fucking panic and were reading to storm the television station."


I literally spit soda onto my keyboard. I was laughing my ass off.
Hysterical. And sad. Because your 100% right!!!!!!!!! People really DID give more of a shit about whether or not the American Idol vote was "fixed" or "rigged". Hell, I think more of America payed attention when Lizzie Maguire stopped making new shows.

How pathetic is that??

[Turn CO Blue]

57. Here are some opportunities for activism and exposure

to discuss VoterGate:

December 12 - everybody out in the streets at their capital!
<http://www.51capitalmarch.com/>

as discussed in:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=88093>

Forget RIBBONS...wear PAPER CLIPS!
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1399359>

Try to remember that everyone else you describe (with their heads up their asses) are STILL PLUGGED INTO THE MATRIX. It doesn't help you cope or understand, but it explains why they don't "get it".