A test for Christians here

[mudesi]

In regards to this thread about South Carolina's Christian license plates.

If South Carolina decided to issue license plates with a pentagram (the symbol of satanism), would you object?

Try to be honest. I hear there's a commandment against lying.

[Kerrytravelers]

1. I object to the license plate in question with the cross. I want no religion with my state, please.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. I don't mind anyone putting a religious symbol on their license plates

pentagrams, moon and crscents, crosses, Star of David or whatever.

[Oleladylib]

3. I don't want to advertize anything on my plate...that's arrogance.

[az chela]

4. SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

[undeterred]

7. Its spelled separation.

[elocs]

11. You know, that is one of the most commonly misspelled words I regularly see.

It has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence, but I think it is more about how the word sounds and then people think of desperate and think that "separate" is spelled similarly.

[maui9002]

20. Contraction of "It is" is spelled "It's".

:)

[undeterred]

23. dAMn, i FlUnKeD tHe XiAn TesT

:silly:

[OhioChick]

25. .....

:rofl:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

30. Thank you.

I hate the spelling police.

[bbinacan]

16. Church and State?

Please. If it were mandated, I'd agree. It's not. It's a choice.

[Goblinmonger]

41. You have no problem, though

with the fact that the ONLY religion being offered on the plate is the Christian one? You don't think that is entanglement/endorsement on the part of the state?

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. I don't see well enough to know what your license plate says. If I could, I wouldn't care.

[OhioChick]

6. I agree with the above poster....

Separation of Church and State.

[pegleg]

37. Separation of Church and State works both ways. It also means

that the state needs to stop trying to dictate when and how people can express their religious beliefs. A vanity plate is a vanity plate as long as others are allowed the same indulgences.

[JerseygirlCT]

39. I don't think so. The plate is an official state item

I think they should be perfectly free to adorn their car with bumperstickers, or even those plastic things that sometimes surround the plate.

But the plate itself is official, and religion - any religion - needs to be kept out of it.

[pegleg]

42. If all religions are allowed to, I see no problem as long as it is done along with other vanity plat

To not allow it is both a violation of freedom of speech and religion (or prohibit the free exercise thereof). The words "free exercise" are key here and that isn't limited to just either public or private contexts.

[Goblinmonger]

44. I am always amazed

how people latch on to the free exercise clause like a damn leech, but act like the establishment clause doesn't exist. You don't think that the state issueing ONLY a Christian plate is a violation of the establishment clause?

[pegleg]

46. If it is ONLY, then yes it needs to be opposed. If the state favors any

religion then it violates the establishment clause. That "free exercise thereof" thingy is part of the Establishment Clause.

[Goblinmonger]

47. How about favoring religion

over no religion?

[JerseygirlCT]

50. I know of no religion that requires, as part of its practice, displaying

religious imagery on state license plates.

No one's religious practice is in the least infringed if they don't carry a license plate announcing their religion.

[pegleg]

51. I have to agree with you and personally I couldn't care less.

But I do think it is their business to display what they want as long as others have the same rights.It should be a non-issue. If we fail to stand up for the other guy's rights then our own are in danger. However, if only Christians are being allowed then certainly they are the ones who need to be challenged.

[JerseygirlCT]

49. No it's not!

There's no guarantee of using public documents or official items to display your opinions.

Those plates aren't yours - they're the state's, and a reflection of the state.

I don't think there ought to be vanity plates of any kind, actually. But I think the lure of extra money started things down that road.

So if you were a loyal member of, say, the Nazi party, in your view you should be allowed to insist that your license plate reflect your senitments?

[Realityhack]

52. That is where I went with it.

If we permit a Christian license plate we MUST accept any license plate.

So it does indeed bag the question... what about a neo-nazi license plate? A satanic license plate? etc.

I would also prefer to see no vanity plates. Get a window sticker, bumper sticker, plastic fish, whatever.

[JerseygirlCT]

55. Exactly.

A license plate isn't there to announce your individuality to the world. It's there to id your car for the gov't's purposes. It's the price to be paid in a way - the slight loss of anonymity - in order to have the privilege of driving a motor vehicle.

There's no right to insist your social security card come in fuschia because you hate blue, and have pictures of smurfs on it, either.

[DeSwiss]

57. JerseygirlCT....

...you've been hitting every nail with every post!

I object to vanity plates as well. It began as a means of fund-raising and recognition for non-profits and colleges. It was just a matter of time until we got here. And more to the point, given that funds are raised, wouldn't that in effect make the state a collection agent and/or fundraiser for the church?

- "Vanity of vanities," saith the Preacher, "vanity of vanities; all is vanity." - Ecclesiastes 1:2

[JerseygirlCT]

59. Is that where the money is going?

I never thought those charities were likely seeing much of it, tbh. The dollar signs to any gov't are probably pretty attractive, you know?

But yes, I think this is where the whole situation starts spiraling down. Slippery slope and all that.

(Oh, and thanks!)

[Goblinmonger]

43. Well said

and some states make those plastic things (frames?) illegal. Don't know why, but just random trivia bouncing around in my head I thought I would share.

[elocs]

8. Nope, no commandment about lying.

There is one about bearing false witness against your neighbor, but no, "Thou shalt not lie".

[OhioChick]

10. Nice catch. n/t

[jeff30997]

9. "I hear there's a commandment against lying."

Yep: Thou shall not Bush.

[Sultana]

12. No

I firmly believe religion has no place in government.

religion + politics very bad mix

[Yael]

13. I am for the separation of church and state

I object to any religious symbols being available on license plates.

[knitter4democracy]

14. Why would I object?

With the Constitution as it is, we have separation of church and state here, so if the state's going to put out Christian plates, they have to allow all other faith symbols, too. I want to hang onto my freedom of religion, thanks.

[Realityhack]

53. so would...

a neo-nazi plate be ok?
Church of Satan?

[gkhouston]

15. OMG, South Carolina has a license plate dedicated to the worship of Bush?

Hell yes, I object.

Oh, you meant the other Satan? Nah. We used to hang in college. :toast:

on edit: in all seriousness, I think there should be no religious plates of any kind. If we permit it for one religion, though, we have to permit it for all.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. I object to the SC plates with a cross on them

or any other religious symbol on a state-issued item.

[Canuckistanian]

18. That's an unfair question here, and you know it

Anyone who would DARE a DU Christian to object to someone else's religious symbols is being unfair.

They know that if they did (if such a person exists), they would be jumped on and chastised.

C'mon, put more thought into your posts.

[hyphenate]

19. First of all

A pentacle (pentagram) is NOT a symbol of Satanism except to Xians, because Satanism is a Christian construct. Wiccans and pagans use it, but (pay attention here!) MOST WICCANS OR PAGANS are NOT EVIL, even in an equivalent ratio with Xians! (and there are some who do use an inverted pentacle, but belief in the Xian devil is not one of the reasons) And, as I explained yesterday in another thread, pentacles have been around a LOT longer than any Xian symbolism. In fact, the nasty connotations surrounding such ancient symbolism were contrived by Xians simply because they were trying to kill all other religions that wouldn't take the Xian foot in the ass.

Second of all, a state's choice of slogans should be decided on by voters, and should not violate Separation of Church and State intent. And that includes all religious symbology and all phrases that imply a god or faith. In fact, I am STILL rancorous about the Confederate Flag being flown over the state house in South Carolina!

What we are seeing here in our country is the systematic destruction of anything and everything which is not Xian related, and yet it is constantly thrown in our faces that the Xians are the ones who are being "persecuted" based on our continued effort to "stifle" them. It is dangerous for many people to even try to make life fair in this respect, because too many powerful people want the theocracy so bad they will kill to make it happen. And ain't that a kick in the pants?

[timtom]

34. "Xian"?

Church of the Subgenius?

[hyphenate]

35. Umm, no

although I fully believe and support the Church of the Sub-Genius: ironically, I have a friend who is named Bob, and was one of the first adherents to that particular "faith." :)

No, Xian is a short form of writing Christian. I use it more than Christian, because my fingers get tired. ;)

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/arguments.html

What does "xian" mean?
"What does the abbreviation "xian" mean? Is it an insult?"

When writing the name "Christ," it is quite common to abbreviate it to X or x, representing the first letter (chi) of the Greek XPICTOC khristos. For example, "xmas" is a common abbreviation of "Christmas." "Xian" just means "Christian."

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the use of the abbreviation "xian" or "xtian" for "Christian" dates back at least as far as 1634. Before that, it was more usual to take the first two letters of XPICTOC, and write "xpian" for "Christian." Priests would record Christenings using the shorthand "xpen" or "xpn."

So no, it's not an insult.

[JerseygirlCT]

40. You know, I totally missed that part of the OP

Yes, indeed. Do people here even still buy that satanism/paganism stuff? I would have expected that we'd know better than that.

I also object the idea that any of us need to submit to a "test". Bad wording on the part of the OP, I think.

[spoony]

21. So many things wrong with your post, where to begin.

For one thing, who are you to "test" an entire group of people here? Will you drop our grades if we don't turn it in?

Second, the pentagram is not typically, when a single angle is pointed up, an indicator of "satanism." It is, and has been for a long time, a holy symbol to numerous faiths including Wicca today and Judaism and Christianity in the past. So it almost goes without saying I wouldn't care if I saw one on a license plate, a plate holder, a bumper sticker, or a tee shirt.

[mudesi]

24. Both points completely irrelevant (nm)

[pleah]

22. Hmmm.

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Denis Diderot

[The Straight Story]

26. No, why would I???? License plates don't scare me

It is not like it would make me suddenly switch beliefs. Even if 90% of the people had em.

I just don't get why some people are all pissed off over it all. I can cover my car (that I have to get a license to drive from the state for) with bumper stickers saying most anything I want and drive on a govt made highway and no one seems to care, but a symbol on a plate is scary?

Jeebus.

[Goblinmonger]

45. I have one good reason to be pissed off about it

First Amendment.

[undeterred]

27. I want a picture of a scowling atheist on my license plate.

[supernova]

29. Ha Ha!

:D

[DeSwiss]

58. ROFL!!!

:D ...but that face could scare the little 'ol ladies.....



And I have enough trouble when they're drivin' now as it is....

[supernova]

28. Either they allow all symbols or none of them

but just to have a cross plate elevates xtianity above other religions. That is illegal, IMO.

I don't really care which. As someone else said, plates are personal and decoration is voluntary. You can have a symbol or not.

[The Straight Story]

31. Has anyone else asked? If not - why bitch at christians for doing so?

If others did not get one, maybe it is because they never bothered to take the steps to do so.

[supernova]

32. Exactly

As far as i know any group that meets the requirements can apply to offer a vanity plate.

edit: If other groups apply, OK a Wiccan group, and if their request is denied, then yes, it's a problem and I wouldn't support that. Being a theist, I have no problem seeing others' religious symbols.

[Realityhack]

54. herin lies one issue...

What ARE the criteria?

Say I have my own religion. Do I fill out some paperwork and get my symbol approved?

I think this is something that will almost inherently lead to a violation of some peoples rights.

[Ilsa]

33. I would be disgusted about "sacred" religious symbols

being allowed on stuff like license plates where it could become very dirty, etc. I certainly wouldn't want the US flag riding the tail of my vehicle.

I wonder why some people feel like they need to advertise their religious beliefs all the time? Jewelry seems to be one thing, but I wonder if these license plates would make them any more likely to behave on the road.

Would people feel any less inclined to buy them if every Hindu, Buddhist, and Muslim bought one? That might be a way to diffuse their relevance.

[pegleg]

56. If you have to worry about what others have on their plates -

I would say that you're the one with the problem.

[Diclotican]

36. lynyrd_skynyrd

lynyrd_skynyrd


I'm an Christian, but I feel this as an silly case.. But very typical for US.. Here where I live we have 2 letter, and then 5 number to se what car is what.. We don't even have right to have "personal license plate".. But some decorate their car with a fish and so on.. But at most it is nothing... Just plain license plates and nothing more

This is just so US... Typical

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language

[JerseygirlCT]

38. I'd object to license plates showing anyone's

religious preferences. It's not the place for it. Plenty of bumperstickers around for anyone to use to advertise their religion if they choose to do so. The license plates issues by the state are not the place for that - regardless of the religion in question.

Are you assuming that the Christians here are in favor of such plates? I'd be surprised to see that, myself.

[Dorian Gray]

48. Nope.

I wouldn't object. As long as they made license plates available to people of all faiths. All or none.

[varkam]

60. Here's why this is a big problem:

normally, the procedure for getting a vanity license plate involves getting a couple hundred signatures, going to the DMV, and placing an order.

If that were the case here, I don't see how there could possibly be a problem.

But, that's not what happened. Instead, the legislature took it upon itself to pass a law commissioning the creation of these plates. Given that it's in the constitution that Congress shall "pass no law respecting the establishment of any religion...", it would seem that such a law is unconstitutional (which I believe is the crux of the lawsuit).

[smoogatz]

61. I want porn on my license plates.

No separation of porn and state!

[TCJ70]

62. It's a plate...put whatever you want on it. n/t

[Gman]

63. Either allow all or allow none

anything else is preferential and unconstitutional.

[SidneyCarton]

64. I'm against putting any religious symbols on my license plates

Its none of anyone's damn business on the road what my faith is, and I have no interest in the faith of any other drivers.