God

[BurtWorm]

Poll question: God

[meegbear]

1. is a concept by which we measure our pain

[stray cat]

2. Not being all knowing - I can't give a definitive answer

[ZombieHorde]

20. If only my professors would accept such an answer.

"Draw a diagram of a nuclear power plant."

Not being all knowing - I can't give a definitive answer

"When was the Mona Lisa painted?"

Not being all knowing - I can't give a definitive answer

"Genki desuka."

Not being all knowing - I can't give a definitive answer

[BurtWorm]

21. I bet your religion professors would.

:hide:

[ZombieHorde]

23. If I could extend that phrase through a four page essay every other month,

then you may be right.

[jobycom]

3. By "posit" do you mean "make up" or "theorize?"

Could go either way. The first falls in line with Joseph Campbell's explanation of God as a metaphor, the second implies agnosticism. To me, the idea of a metaphorical god could also go either way--agnosticism or atheism.

So which are you asking?

[BurtWorm]

5. Theorized.

But that doesn't rule out made up.

[jobycom]

15. Just seems like "made up" wouldn't preclude your third option.

I'm not sure either meaning is exclusive from your third option. I don't believe in any god, for instance, but I do think that God is a metaphor that helps people answer the unanswerables. I think science is often that same type of metaphor--many non-believers and some believers assume science will one day answer those questions, or at least that science is capable of answering them.

What is love, why do we exist, what is the highest purpose of humans, how are we different than animals? Certainly science can come up with very good and accurate answers to those questions, but they are often not fulfilling in some vague way, since a lot of the time we mean "Why" as much as "what" and "how." If you include psychology and psychiatric analysis as science, we can come closer to those answers with science, but many people still want something better. Metaphorical Gods allow us to develop, if not an answer, at least a short cut around the question so we can get directly to the best course of action.

I mean, for instance, what is love? Chemistry can describe neurons and hormones and the triggers which activate them. Psycho-analysis can describe love maps and childhood developmental models which explain what attracts us individually. Genetic scientists can describe genes and predispositions. Biologists can describe evolution and procreation instincts. We can develop a good picture of the mechanics of love. Philosophy and ethics can describe how to behave while in love. Poets can describe the magic, how it feels, how it moves a person, how it enobles or destroys them. Playwrights and authors can describe the consequences and problems of love, and the situations we can find ourselves in if we behave properly or badly.

So there are many ways other than God to answer questions about love, yet at the same time a simple metaphor about higher love--whether Plato, the Gospels, or Stevie Winwood--helps people to deal with the powerful primal urges and realities of love without having to understand it. If God says "I am love, believe in me," and then says "Thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not have children you can't take care of, thou shall not try to bugger your homie's girlfriend," then a person knows all they need to know about how to deal with love without having to understand lovemaps and neurons.

And even if the metaphor isn't a God, but is instead a top forty hit song about roses, it still functions. Same is true of life, death, purpose, and even things like global warming--face it, most of us know only a fraction of the science on it, and just have faith in the scientists who tell us it's real.

So my point is a person can believe that God is a useful metaphor without having to believe that there's any possibility that God exists. Or, that there is an answer to everything, and that God is as good a metaphor as Nature, Science, Scientology, the Force, or whatever. None of know everything. All of us choose some metaphor to believe in. And most of us believe that our metaphor is really the only one that provides trustable answers.

All of which means I choose Answer Three, but I don't think Two excludes Three, and in many ways I think Nature can function in the same way as a metaphorical God for some people. :)

And no one will read all this, but I love to write, anyway.

[MedleyMisty]

28. I read all of it

I also write long posts that no one reads, so I got to help a fellow thinker out. :)

After another thread in here where I defined God as the fundamentalist idea of the word, I found a deism forum.

It made me think. I didn't grow up in any religious tradition. I heard the word God occasionally but it was never really part of my personal vocabulary. And I find that now I associate it with a supernatural being worshipped in a dogmatic religion. It has been rather humbling to realize that I have my own "labels" and bundled concepts.

Although when I put it that way, it seems that it's sort of the socially accepted definition and that it's not that awful a label or stereotype.

I love my metaphors. I love the sun and the trees and the grass and the sky and my cats and the neighbor's dog and the deer I saw in the park Saturday and my husband and random strangers I see walking on the street and random strangers on other streets millions of miles away that I can't see but that I think about. I just can't call it God, because in my brain that word is very much associated with dogmatic myth-based religion and the suffering that it causes to the world I love.

Thank you for your post, though - it helped to pry the lid of the "god" box in my mind open a little further.

[jobycom]

30. It's been said before

but I think the worst bigotry some on the left hold is towards religious people. I'm not talking about despising those who use religion for hate, or fighting against attempts to force religion down people's throats, or opposing attempts to make religious beliefs into law... All the negative side effects of being too certain one is right. Beyond that, though, there is a real condescension towards those with religious beliefs, and a complete insensitivity. I see posts started about God, and they are immediately followed with comments about sky people or make belief, with as much fundamentalist condescension and certainty as any religious person I've ever witnessed.

One of the big steps I took towards atheism, as a teenager, was when I started questioning why there had to be a God. I think many believers totter on the edge of not believing, and they feel that if they question God, everything stops being right. There is no more center, no more morality. For me, I imagined one day what would happen if there was no God. How much of what I believed would I lose? And I saw, like an epiphany I guess, that I wouldn't lose any of it. It was like a pyramid--if I lopped off the top of the pyramid, the pointy God at the top, then the rest of the pyramid would still stand. So I finally admitted I didn't believe, and when I wasn't struck down by a lightning bolt, I built on that.

God means everything to a believer. I don't just mean that they think everything is about God, or that God is everything to them. I mean he means everything. Light, beauty, love, order, ethics, their place in the world, their soul, their center, everything. It's a big thing to lose. It's too much to ask them to lose. And Hell, who knows, maybe they are right. I don't believe it, but I've been wrong before. So I have never held religious belief against a person. I'll argue my point until I'm blue in the face and beyond, but I've found I argue with fellow atheists who are too dogmatic just as aggressively. I guess it's the superiority that bothers me. I've been on both sides, and while on each side I've been told the other side was the only true answer. I've felt insulted by fundamentalists on both sides. So maybe that's why I don't like hearing the certainty in others. I believe what I believe, and I'm convinced I am right, but I'm not going to attack others with it.

Martin Luther King was a believer. Jimmy Carter is very devout. Mother Teresa, Desmond Tutu, Francis of Assissi, were all believers. I don't think I'm better or smarter than any of them in any way. So there's more to belief than dogma. I always try to remember that when I have to hear about Falwell or Robertson or their type.

Just my thoughts.

[Speck Tater]

4. Other ...

God is other than what we think, and will always be other than what we think.
That might mean God does not exist, or it might mean that God exists in some manner utterly other than what we have imagined, or can imagine. Whatever God is, or is not, God is definitely other than anything we think God is.

[BurtWorm]

6. Kind of like Britney Spears in a way.

:crazy:

[jobycom]

16. That's

a perfect description of God as a metaphor for everything we can't define any other way.

And of Britney Spears. :rofl:

[MineralMan]

7. To which deity do you refer?

If it's supernatural, then I don't believe it exists at all.

[Marrah_G]

8. Which one?

[BurtWorm]

9. Any one.

;-)

[Marrah_G]

10. Well now, I might have a different answer for each one !

In reference to my own pantheon I would have to say they are a combination of all of the above.

We have a slightly different way of thinking of dieties.

I do not believe there is a diety in the sky watching everything I do with great interest.

[BurtWorm]

11. Do you believe in deities who inhabit and/or tend to certain things, like wind and sea?

Is the moon a goddess? Is night a goddess?

PS: I'm just curious, by the way.

[Marrah_G]

18. No

I believe the moon is a satellite of the earth formed from left over materials as the earth was forming.

Tending to things might be a better phrase. Watching over. I also think they are getting pretty fed up with humanity.

[tekisui]

12. Other: Shorthand for that which humans cannot comprehend.

Anything outside our ability to see, measure or understand.

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

13. Lost me with the "supernatural" part.

I've never seen or encountered anything supernatural...that is, contrary to or above the laws of nature, nor do I ever expect to. I am open to the possibility, but highly doubt that I'll ever see it based on over 60 years of observation and experience. But,of course...that's just me.

[BurtWorm]

14. So your definition of God is not there?

[jobycom]

17. If by Nature, you mean F'ING NARWHAL!!!11! then that's my choice!!

Sorry, I resisted as long as I could. :(

And I gave a more serious answer above. :)

[Occam Bandage]

19. A common trait in spontaneously-arising, cohesive social value/meaning systems.

[BurtWorm]

22. Damn! I knew I forgot a definition!

[damntexdem]

24. Other: I dunno.

[cosmik debris]

25. Other: A semantic argument.

God is a word game played by people who want god to be real.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. There is nothing

but God.

To understand God, one must go beyond concepts and to direct experience.

[JerseygirlCT]

27. is nt

[cynatnite]

29. another word for Santa Claus. n/t