If any GOD needs you to ask him to protect Obama then he/she is totally worthless!

[KansasVoter]

All prayer does is make the prayer feel better! Which I am fine with if it helps you. But I don't need to hear about it.

Why does someone dying of cancer need to ask God for help? Maybe God can figure out they need help on his/her own!!

The average person would cure them if they could without needing to be asked.

If a kid stepped out in front of a bus would you need to be asked to save him or would you do it out of the kindness of your heart?

This whole praying stuff needs to be in some other forum, not here!

[BlooInBloo]

1. I agree, naturally, but don't think it's worth going all emo over.

[zippy890]

34. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

love that response

:yourock:

my favorite post of the month

[Bicoastal]

2. "But I don't need to hear about it."

And we don't need to hear you posting about hearing about it.

[Skittles]

4. I have to put up with constant religious crap

heaven forbid (pun) anyone should have to hear I don't like it

[saltpoint]

3. I'm not a believer. That said, I think prayer calls down humility onto

the coarse landscape of day-to-day struggle.

And in so doing confers a rationale for affirmation and rescue.

A means to an end, a cheer from the bleachers, the psychic soundtrack to a good wish.

[customerserviceguy]

13. It also confers a smugness and false righteousness

on just about any atrocity people really want to commit. Five thousand years of human history proves that.

[anonymous171]

23. Has Christian prayer really been around for that long?

[LooseWilly]

28. Are Christians the only ones who have ever prayed?

[customerserviceguy]

37. Religion is one of the first things

that advanced civilization invented to get people to kill and die for a cause. Before that, people just did what they needed to keep themselves and their immediate family, clan, or tribe safe.

[saltpoint]

26. People reach for something. The impulse is to draw down the good.

All those atrocities remain atrocities no matter how each of us individual responds to their having been committed.

You can't ban romance just because some people screw it up.

[customerserviceguy]

38. Not talking about banning anything, including romance

While romance can lead to finding lifelong satisfaction with a suitable partner, it can also produce dependency, and the cognitive dissonance needed to stay with an abuser.

Neither religious belief (expressed through prayer) or romance is a universally good thing in all cases.

[saltpoint]

40. We agree. Just saying that the incident of malpractice in either case

shouldn't be the tripswitch for condemnation.

Interestingly, some of the contemporary Christian recordings appear to blend both blind devotion with slavish co-dependency. Some talented musicians are involved but there appear to be some red flags as well.

Also it's worth some consideration that the folks who are the most lock-step certain in their adherence to Jesus of Galilee appear to overlook his contrariness and independence, as well as his decision, at least through the 33 or so years he was around, not to join an organized faith nor to marry.

[rockymountaindem]

5. Or you could ignore it

Some people who treat every mention of religion or God like it's a game of whack-a-mole they simply MUST win are just as insulting as those who manage to plug for God at every possible juncture.

[emilyg]

18. +1

[ZombieHorde]

6. I made a poll today which you may find interesting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8653534

[KansasVoter]

8. I did find it interesting. But some people were not! :-)

[laconicsax]

45. You're so offensive!!!!!11

How dare you ask a yes or no objective question about prayer!!! You're so arrogant and insensitive!!!

That thread's going in the scrapbook. What was it? One response before it turned ugly?

[ZombieHorde]

46. The first response began with, "That's just a horrible poll."

I was not expecting people to freak out the way they did. I tried to word the poll in an objective and fair way, but some people insisted I used hateful language, though they refused to point this language out to me. Strange, but still a fun poll.

[Lost-in-FL]

48. DU's best poll EVERR!!!!

:applause: :yoiks:

[redwitch]

7. Stop already with the crucifiction of that poster.

:-) Couldn't resist.

But seriously, he/she wasn't trying to convert anybody, she was expressing concern for the Presidents safety and what she does to help.
No need to freak out. If you aren't a subscriber, simply ignore, it's simple.

[KansasVoter]

10. If I was a Wiccan and discussed Obama I bet it would get a response!

[redwitch]

15. Not sure what you mean.

Do you mean that Wiccans prayers are answered but Christian prayers aren't?

[PassingFair]

49. I got called a "*ucker" for equating prayer with spell casting.

Draw your own conclusions.

:eyes:

[rd_kent]

52. Was that because they felt prayer was better than spell casting?

More info please!

[LooseWilly]

29. Hehe... maybe that's an answer for you...

Say a Flying Spaghetti Monster Prayer (Marinara'd Be His Name) over every Xtian prayer... to de-properify said Xtian prayers and thusly make them less nauseauifying... so that the President, as well as yourself, are able to stomach the possible deity attention to the petty details of governing without offending the Corporate Gods... and bringing down their wrath upon the poor citizens who might otherwise catch the attention of, and be crushed by, said Corporate Gods...

[jonnyblitz]

14. yes, everybody should be required to agree with each other

or not comment at all. why even discuss anything anymore? :shrug: lets just "high five" every post we agree with and if we don't agree, remain silent, say NOTHING. that's the ticket. :thumbsup:

belief systems should NEVER be examined or questioned or criticized, just accepted, because we are LIBRULS and we have to be nice to everybody . critical thought is NOT required.

[redwitch]

16. No, not at all. Not what I meant.

I just think that her post was, at the heart of it, mostly about her fear for President Obama's safety. His well being is something we can all agree on, why not focus on that?

[WCGreen]

9. Wouldn't that be the Prayeree...

[MissDeeds]

11. If praying to any deity

helps someone ease the pain or suffering in this life, or gives hope where there is none, then I will not condemn it - or them.

[CakeGrrl]

12. So, when someone creates a post about losing a loved one and

others respond by saying they're sending their thoughts and prayers, does it put a bug up your ass enough to tell them it's no real use?

And why should YOUR thread bitching about prayer be any more a part of GD: P than the other that you hold in such disdain?

[burning rain]

17. People often pray because that's all they can do.

And if it's for someone else, they may also want the person they're praying for, to know they love them, and feel some comfort. At the same time they usually don't really believe in the efficacy of prayer. For instance, a guy's about to go for a heart transplant and prays for it to work out alright. If he really believed in the power of God, he wouldn't see the need to have the operation.

[Clio the Leo]

19. I'm gonna pray that you remember where the "hide thread" button is. ;- ) NT

[KingFlorez]

20. There's nothing wrong with prayer for some people

Just because you believe in it doesn't mean it should not be allowed on this forum. You are entitled to your beliefs and so are others.

[grantcart]

21. ah yes the Woody Allen argument

[anonymous171]

22. I know I get all pissed off at all the atheist shit that gets posted here as well.

[rd_kent]

53. What "atheist shit" is that?

[inna]

24. funny thread.

:hi:

[gauguin57]

25. God doesn't need anyone to ask for anything. That's not what prayer is for.

I'm a little worried about you, though. It wasn't enough that I was pilloried over an innocuous statement through my own thread ... you had to start a SECOND WHOLE THREAD to spread negativity against people who happen to believe in God?

We can agree to disagree on this. But oh brother. I'm really stunned at all the vitriol on this board over the idea of simply (and I do mean simply) praying for Obama's safety and strength. I'm not a representative of any religion. Certainly not a Christian. I'm a believer who prays, and believe that, for those who DO pray, Obama needs our prayers now.

I just believe in sending out positive energy on behalf of a president who has a bunch of rabid wingers essentially threatening his life.

For the rest of you who don't believe in prayer ... I'm asking absolutely nothing of you. Except a little tolerance. I guess I really don't understand what "liberal" or "progressive" means if I can't come into a liberal/progressive board and say, "Hey, any believers on this board, let's pray for Obama, OK?"

I'm starting to think I've stumbled into intolerant Atheofascist/Agnostofascist land.

I know a lot of Christians who belong to "peace churches" and such ... and they're liberal as the day is long, and think nothing of regularly praying for the president. Are you telling these folks -- as they organize silent vigils for healthcare reform and against war -- to "get lost! we don't want your kind here!" because they're believers?

[LooseWilly]

30. "Agnostofascist"? ...

That is funny...

Just out of curiosity... if you're "not a representative of any religion. Certainly not a Christian.", but at the same time you're "a believer who prays..." uhhm, what the hell is it that you believe in/pray to? Santa Claus?

[uponit7771]

35. Amen!!!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

39. Both sides tend to cherry-pick their theology...

The when Catholic Church speaks out for social justice (which it has done for many years), we liberals will cite their teachings to bolster the moral argument for our side. But when they talk about abortion, they get a hearty STFU and are told to stay out of politics.

Just a curious thing I found in "Ad Petri Cathedrum" which was issued in 1959:

Anyone who consciously and wantonly attacks known truth, who arms himself with falsehood in his speech, his writings, or his conduct in order to attract and win over less learned men and to shape the inexperienced and impressionable minds of the young to his own way of thinking, takes advantage of the inexperience and innocence of others and engages in an altogether despicable business.

If I remember correctly, isn't Bill O'Reilly a proud Catholic?

[BurtWorm]

55. I don't want to offend you, because you seem like a genuinely kind person.

I appreciate kindness period. So I'll do my best to be kind to you in expressing my disagreement with you.

I agree with this much: people of good will ought to try to be sensitive to each other. At the same time, they should be honest.

I don't want to control anyone else's behavior or restrict their freedom to believe what they want. I can only say that I don't understand what actual good people who pray think they're doing. I can understand the idea of creating an atmosphere of peace and community, in which people join together to be silent and meditate or just think. But the idea that people thinking "make this happen" is actually going to have the effect of causing the thing to happen seems irrational to me. Many believers don't get offended by having it pointed out that their rituals or beliefs are irrational. They say that's the whole point of religion, to be in touch with the irrational. But then they sometimes also want to make the claim that despite there being no reason to believe in the power of prayer, prayer is, nevertheless, powerful.

Take the prayer to end the war, for example. Haven't people been praying this since 2001? When does it become clear that something is missing from these prayers because they're not working. What can possibly be added to the prayer to make it actually work?

So I'm brought back to the idea that if prayer has a use, it's not the one the prayerful often say it is. It's not to plead with God for an outcome, or to register a vote with God for an outcome. It's to bring the prayerful back to oneself. What is sold as a prayer to God for an end to war is not that at all, then.

Or is it? If it is, how can it possibly be and why doesn't it work?

[gauguin57]

27. ... and in case anyone is wondering ... this is my original post that started this sh*tstorm,

And it was completely unintentional, I assure you. I added additional posts to make my statement clear ... that I was expressing a simple hope -- and growing fear -- for the president's safety.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8652748

I won't be made to feel bad about posting this. And it has taught me something very sad about DU -- a board I really love.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. Two questions for you.

First, why post a religious OP in a political forum? Why not in GD, not GDP? I am fine with both politics and religion, if they are separate. If not, they each taint the other. I find such posts to be irreligious, frankly, as well as bad for political discourse.
Second, you keep saying you are not religious, but that you are a believer. You have been asked a couple of times to clarify your own faith. All the world's faiths teach an absolute clarity of speech, hiding nothing, parsing nothing. Yes means yes. So how about some open talk w/o the spin?
And one comment. You and many other religionists here on DU affect surprise when you are mocked for your faith posts, and in fact you all make large noise about how you should be respected and there is always much foot stomping and demands for kind words. The fact is that Jesus and other great world teachers said that their followers would in fact be mocked, even persecuted for their faith, and they were told specifically to rejoice in such mockery or persecution. And that is what it is. Another teaching not reflected in the actions of the faithful on DU or elsewhere.
For me, I'd have found your OP interesting in a non political context, and engaged you with actual questions and observations. Intercessory prayer is a specific form of prayer, and what a conversation could be had. But it is not political, and when it is in the political arena, faith is no longer faith, but a tool of human agendas. And it will be dealt with as such, as human, not as divine.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

31. Well, can we at least ask God to give the president and the cowardly Democrats some balls? n/t

[BillDU]

32. OK

Your hatred of God is duly noted.
Don't worry.
If you don't want Him around when your dying of whatever..
He'll blind your eyes.

[GrilledCheeses]

44. God doesn't sound very nice. Blinding people?

[JNelson6563]

50. Bible-god is very hateful

that might be why his followers are such a frightened lot.

Julie

[rd_kent]

54. WTF are you on about?

[jonnyblitz]

57. you WOO are such lovely people.

:rofl:

[Number23]

33. Grow the hell up. You sound like a fool.

And the fact that you simply cannot let it go from that other thread says so much more about you than could ever be said about the other OP.

[rug]

36. I feel the same way about emails to the White House and Congress.

[Soylent Brice]

42. dammit, i'm late!... as usual.

:popcorn:

[Colobo]

43. Why do some people get all worked up when people talk about their faith?

Who cares!

[jonnyblitz]

56. because "faith" is what has FUCKED this country up. nt

[heidler1]

47. I happen to believe in near total separation of religion and politics.

This means that I'd prefer that Obama and all other politicians would leave his/her religion at home in fulfilling the duties of his job. I like the idea of the USA being a nation of laws, not a nation of mixing all brands of religion in the courts. I realize that this is way beyond our current voting public, but I'd like to believe that we are making some progress. Even though much was made of Obama's religious background he appears, to me, to see this as progressive and desirable.

Many of our laws reflect strong anti-natural human hate, the source being from some religion, that I would prefer tossing.

[rd_kent]

51. While I agree with your point, if you "dont want to hear" it, use the ignore button.

[gk88850]

58. Agreed. Utter nonsense.

[ZombieHorde]

59. Welcome to DU on one condition....

[darkstar3]

60. .

:spray:

WTH did you find that?!

[ZombieHorde]

61. I don't remember, but it made me laugh too. nt