Pilgrims flock to see 'Buddha boy' said to have fasted six months

[jefferson_dem]

Pilgrims flock to see 'Buddha boy' said to have fasted six months
By Thomas Bell in Bara District, Nepal
(Filed: 21/11/2005)

Thousands of pilgrims are pouring into the dense jungle of southern Nepal to worship a 15-year-old boy who has been hailed as a new Buddha.

Devotees claim that Ram Bomjon, who is silently meditating beneath a tree, has not eaten or drunk anything since he sat down at his chosen spot six months ago.

Ram Bomjon maintains his vigil in the shade of his pipal tree
Witnesses say they have seen light emanating from the teenager's forehead.

"It looks a bit like when you shine a torch through your hand," said Tek Bahadur Lama, a member of the committee responsible for dealing with the growing number of visitors from India and elsewhere in Nepal.

<SNIP>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/21/wbuddha21.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/11/21/ixportal.html

[Up2Late]

1. Has anyone touched him, maybe he's not an actual person.

Before I get flamed, I am a Buddhist, it's allowed, and one thing you should know about Buddhism, we question everything, it's what we do.

[dweller]

2. Must we question everything?

;)

dp

[xchrom]

3. isn't that a lot of work?

[Warpy]

4. sure

It's the way we find some of the answers.

I had the same suspicion, BTW, and I'm a Budhhist, too.

[1620rock]

5. ...umm, maybe he's dead,

[mzteris]

6. I question, therefore I am......

:)

My son's the Buddhist. I'm not sure I should tell him about this because I can just see him trying to follow suit. (sigh) (He's just turned 12.) Not that he eats that much anyway.

Are pretzels part of the four food groups? :)

[Up2Late]

8. Sure they are, Snyder's Homestyle! Yummy.

Just hope you don't have any old Bodi (or Pipal) Trees around.

[davidinalameda]

65. only if they're chocolate covered pretzels

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. This seems a little to contrived to me.

I mean, really...

Someone needs to sic a crusty old zen roshi on this kid. Said roshi would have this sorted out in nothing flat.

[Up2Late]

9. I agree, I think some of the major Guru's or The Dalai Lama...

...would have spoken about this by now if it was legitimate. The fact that they won't let a Doctor within 5 yards of him says to me this might be a scam.

If he was that deep in meditation to be able to keep it up for 6 months straight, a doctor checking for a heartbeat would not disturb his meditation.

[Orsino]

13. *Might* be a scam?

If he really hadn't eaten anything for six months, he should have been buried for five.

People who don't eat, like, die.

This is a scam.

[Ian David]

17. I think he's really just David Blane in disguise.

Nobody's heard from Blane lately, have we?

[KittyWampus]

25. That is untrue. Yogis can do such things. But they generally don't seek

attention. In fact, they usually shun it.

[greyl]

37. No, incorrect.

The human body can't survive much beyond a week without water.

If you can show me an example to support your argument, please do.

[jefferson_dem]

10. LOL! Nothing like an old-fashioned scrum about the "proper" buddha way

The small boat vs the big boat vs the zen ("kill the buddha") boat... sound. one. hand. clapping.

[KittyWampus]

27. This is called Hatha Yoga

[GoddessOfGuinness]

30. Is it possible to go so long without water?

I can imagine going without food for 6 months, but not water...

[Whoa_Nelly]

31. Read here about Buddhist "fasting"

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma9/fasting.html

<snip>
Q: What does a fast day "look" like, e.g. are some foods permitted but not others? Some drinks but not others? Or is it a complete abstinence from all food and all drink?

A: When a practitioner adopts a supervised fasting practice he or she eats dry bread for three days to prepare the stomach for no food. The standard fasting period is eighteen days and only a small amount of water is drunk daily. Most important is the ending of the fast, which requires small portions of thin porridge or gruel every few hours for three days, until the digestive system has come fully back to life. If this first fast is successful and beneficial to one's practice, then one can attempt a thirty-six day fast. Some fasters have extended the period gradually over years to include fasting for up to seventy-two days. This is an extreme practice that is only recommended to one who has taken all the required steps with the supervision of an experienced teacher.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

32. Thank you! The article said he had no food or water for 6 months...

I suspect the author was either mistaken or misinformed.

[Up2Late]

33. I don't think so, the average person can only go 4 days without water

A highly trained person might make it a week. The "without drinking" for six months is what set of my BS detector.

[superconnected]

11. I don't believe it.

They're going to need to start allowing doctors and skeptics to look at him before I will consider this to have any integrity.

[Chicago Democrat]

12. Get that kid a sandwich!

Om Mani Padme Om

Oh Tara Tutare Ture Soha!

[Ian David]

19. What are the odds some adult is actually forcing him to do this? n/t

[Ouabache]

23. Yeah, one with everything

on it.

[TechBear_Seattle]

28. There is no sandwich.

I mean, this is Nepal: one is lucky if there is plain bread.

[Chicago Democrat]

39. The sandwich and all things are illusion...

Om!

[WinkyDink]

14. Yeah, really.

Maybe he's getting his sustenance from the sun (cf. "Trading Spouses").

[sakabatou]

15. Impossible

The body can't for more than 3 or 4 days without liquid.

[SpiralHawk]

16. Oh yeah

I have fasted up on the hill for four days and nights -- no food or water -- 12 times now in 12 different years, and few more times with just water. If you KNOW what you are doing, and have an elder supervise you, it is altogether possible.

I know elders who have fasted for up to 21 days. There is a WAY. If you don't know the way, and don't have a competent elder to guide you, then DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

[Ian David]

18. My GUESS is he's cheating at least A LITTLE...

The human metabolism can do some pretty freaky things without the need to invoke magic powers.

As for light coming from his head or whatnot, I doubt he's glowing like E.T., but this is going to be fascinating no matter what gets turned up.

Whether it's a really neat trick, a clever hoax, or an amazing feat of biological resiliency, I'm going to be fascinated by the answers.

I just hope that whatever is happening, the poor kid doesn't die.

[LisaL]

20. If he is fasting for 6 months and is still alive, then I am a queen of

England.

[Ian David]

21. My personal guess is less than a 1% chance he's REALLY fasting

But if he is, then he's got to have some very dangerous genetic anomaly.

My best guess is that he's actually being abused and slowly starved by his family. Which is a very troubling thought, and I hope I'm wrong about that.

My guess:

Genuine biological phenomenon <1%
A clever hoax that keeps the kid perfectly safe- 5%
Child abuse by starvation 94%

[LisaL]

24. No genetic anomaly will keep someone alive for 6 months, if

that someone doesn't drink or eats.

[Ian David]

34. Maybe he's taking nutrition from a tree branch inserted rectally? n/t

[greyl]

36. :) Last week he was behind a curtain for 5 days, hidden from view.

So, he was bitten by a snake, huh? All those people around him and a snake got to him? Right.

He or his handlers are profitting from the sales of his photograph.
Sounds very spiritual to me.

The people orchestrating this hoax are pieces of shit. Or better yet, "they are all of one piece of shit".

[Ian David]

40. I thought the hiding behind the curtain was suspicious, too

My guess is that the kid is being starved by his parents. Not completely fasting, just starving enough to really suffer and possibly die.

[greyl]

52. I agree that his elders are guilty. :)

I think they may be more guilty of using him for fraud than outright abuse, though.
It's clear that the marketed account of his total fast is a lie.
It's clear that he was hidden from view for 5 days last week.
I can't locate a published story about Ram Bomjon more than a few days old, when a 1 month total fast would probably make worldwide headlines. Do older accounts exist?
Follow the money.
Buy Jesus' face manifested into a potato chip on ebay.

I'm sure some of us will keep up with the facts behind this story and provide updates. ;)

Meanwhile, this remote piece of Nepalese jungle is rapidly turning into a spiritual supermarket. If devotees want a memento of their visit to the forest, five rupees will buy them a picture of Ram Bomjon with light emanating from his forehead, a little more will buy them a sacred amulet. As the stalls and sideshows proliferate, the jungle is slowly drowning in mounds of litter.

Call me a killjoy, but I have to admit I’m sceptical of this kind of spiritual circus. Committee? What’s all this about a committee? As far as I recall the Buddha didn’t have a committee. And – leaving on one side the extremely dubious nature of the claims being made concerning Ram Bomjon’s abstinence from food and water – what about the financial aspects of this latest marvel? Somebody somewhere is making a lot of money out of Ram Bomjon. Coach-parks, after all, do not come cheap. Local businessman Prakash Lamsal, soberly refusing to get caught up in the frenzy, told the press that “These lamas are going to build mansions out of this. If I wasn’t a bit embarrassed I’d take a van down there and set up a stall.” Here at thinkBuddha we’ll be keeping an eye on the boy Buddha of Nepal, and we’ll let you know if there are any developments.

http://www.thinkbuddha.org/

[greyl]

38. You need to find some new elders who won't lie to you. nt

[Desertrose]

42. Why do you assume the elders lie?

Just because you have no experience with this doesn't mean its a lie.

[salvorhardin]

43. This is why

From the article linked in the OP:

Photographs of Ram Bomjon, available for five rupees (4p) from his makeshift shrine, have become ubiquitous across the region.

He said no allegation had yet emerged of Ram breaking his fast or moving, even to relieve himself.

Local doctors failed to reach a final conclusion, although they were allowed no closer than five yards from the boy mystic, declaring that they could confirm no more than that he was alive.

The fervour increased last week when a snake is said to have bitten Ram, and a curtain was drawn around him.

Let's tally up here... 1) They're selling something, 2) A biologically impossible act (unless he's relieving himself where he sits), 3) Experts not allowed access needed to properly evaluate claims, and 4) a sudden need to hide the subject from view (as another poster stated, all those people and a snake was allowed to bite him?)

All the classic traits of a hoax or scam. No human can survive by fasting for 6 months and every human must relieve theirself at least every couple of days. Even if he is only taking in minimal fluids, the body itself must evacuate toxins. Sweating alone will not do it.

[Desertrose]

47. You entirely missed the point of my post...

I was asking why greyl assumed that the elders Spiralhawk knows would be have to be lying.

As to Buddha Boy. I have not stated my opinion either way. You simply ASSume that I have bought in to it all.

I have some questions about this all myself since I have not been there to make sure the truth has or has not been told.

I am however, open to the fact that strange and unexplained things DO happen in this world.

DR

[greyl]

53. "I am however, open to the fact that strange and unexplained things..."

Who isn't?

[greyl]

44. Why do you assume I have no experience with this?

I do, and I've said so before.

edit: The apparent fact that you believe that 'elders have fasted with no food or water for 21 days' all but proves you have no experience with this.

[Desertrose]

48. OK, so you tell me you have experience...

But I still have to ask you why do you assume the elders that Spiralhawk knows are lying about 21 day fasts?

I know elders who have fasted for up to 21 days. There is a WAY. If you don't know the way, and don't have a competent elder to guide you, then DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME.

Seems you have put your own spin on this:
" that 'elders have fasted with no food or water for 21 days' "

You have added the "no water" and SH clearly states that there is a way to do these things. I wonder if you have considered the spiritual aspects of what the elders are doing.

I know SH. I know some of the elders he is referring to and I very much doubt that they would lie. Over the years SH & I have shared some serious shamanic moments... I know about some of his experiences and I trust them much more than you simply stating on this thread that you "have experience" in these matters.

According to you, one sentence where I state that I agree with elders fasting for that long a time "proves" I have no experience with this? That is a very amusing and rather illogical conclusion.

DR

[greyl]

50. Why can't the Buddha vacuum in corners?

It's reasonable to presume that a statement about anyone going without food and water for 21 days is false because of the absence of evidence when, in this case, there should be evidence if not from these elders than somewhere on the planet.
Conversely, assuming the statement is true simply because someone said so would be unwise. Being enamored with the authority of the one making such a statement is no excuse for taking it to heart.

"Seems you have put your own spin on this:
"that elders have fasted with no food or water for 21 days""

My own spin? No.
First of all, the subject of this thread is the claim that a young man has gone without food or water for 6 months.

Secondly, the statement SpiralHawk responded to was this:
sakabatou: "Impossible. The body can't (survive) for more than 3 or 4 days without liquid."

Thirdly, SpiralHawk's reply was: "Oh yeah. I have fasted up on the hill for four days and nights -- no food or water -- 12 times now in 12 different years, and few more times with just water. If you KNOW what you are doing, and have an elder supervise you, it is altogether possible.
I know elders who have fasted for up to 21 days. ..."

I see good reason to presume that SpiralHawk was still referring to "no food or water" when he switched to the term "fasting".

According to you, one sentence where I state that I agree with elders fasting for that long a time "proves" I have no experience with this? That is a very amusing and rather illogical conclusion.

I said "all but proves". If I wanted to convey "proves"(absolutely), I would have worded it that way.
Based on my knowledge and experience, the reason I think it all but proves that you have no experience with fasting to the degree described in the OP and by the elders in question is that, if you had ever personally attempted or personally witnessed someone trying to go without food or water for 21 days you would have concluded that it was highly improbable, if not absolutely impossible.


btw, why not interview your particular "elders" referred to here and get back to us?

[Hyernel]

22. The squirrels are bringing him nuts.

:smoke:

Cool looking tree though. I'd like one in my back yard.

[Orrex]

35. Au contraire! The nuts are going to him all by themselves.

[Dufaeth]

46. LOL !

.

[KittyWampus]

26. Anyone remember Milarepa? He lived on nettles which turned him green.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

29. LMAO!

[NMMNG]

41. I don't buy it

He said no allegation had yet emerged of Ram breaking his fast or moving, even to relieve himself.

snip

Local doctors failed to reach a final conclusion, although they were allowed no closer than five yards from the boy mystic, declaring that they could confirm no more than that he was alive.

How does a doctor confirm, from five yards away, that a person is alive when they are not moving?

[greyl]

45. Inedia (Breatharianism)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia

Jasmuheen (born Ellen Greve) was probably the most famous advocate of breatharianism during the 1990s. She claimed "I can go for months and months without having anything at all other than a cup of tea. My body runs on a different kind of nourishment." Several interviewers found her house full of food, but she claimed the food was for her husband. In 1999, she volunteered to be monitored closely by Australia's 60 Minutes for one week without eating to demonstrate her methods. After Greve had fasted for four days, Dr. Berris Wink, president of the Queensland branch of the Australian Medical Association, urged her to stop the test. According to the doctor, Greve’s pupils were dilated, her speech was slow, she was dehydrated and her pulse had doubled. The doctor feared kidney damage if she continued with the fast. The test was stopped. She claimed it was due to stress and pollution from a nearby road. Greve claimed that she failed because on the first day of the test she had been confined in a hotel room near a busy road, which kept her from getting the nutrients she needs from the air. “I asked for fresh air. Seventy percent of my nutrients come from fresh air. I couldn’t even breathe,” she said. However, on the third day the test moved to a place at a mountainside retreat where she could get plenty of fresh air and where she claimed she could now live happily. She challenged the results of the program, saying, "Look, 6,000 people have done this around the world without any problem".

The well-publicized deaths of 49-year-old Australian-born Scotland resident Verity Linn, 31-year-old Munich kindergarten teacher Timo Degen, and 53-year-old Melbourne resident Lani Marcia Roslyn Morris while attempting to enter the breatharian "diet" have drawn further criticism of the idea. Jim Vadim Pesnak, 63, and his wife Eugenia, 60, went to jail for three years on charges of manslaughter for their involvement in the death of Morris.

Verity Lynn, the Scottish woman who inadvertently killed herself by choosing the Breatharian "diet" was a nominee for the 1999 Darwin Awards. She took to the highlands, the article says, "with only a tent and her grit and determination." She died of hypothermia and dehydration, aggravated by lack of food. Jasmuheen claimed that her death was brought on by a psycho-spiritual problem, rather than a physiological one.

Jasmuheen has denied any involvement with the three deaths and claims she cannot be held responsible for the actions of her followers.

Jasmuheen was awarded the Bent Spoon award by Australian Skeptics in 2000 ("presented to the perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of paranormal or pseudoscientific piffle").

The wiki article is under dispute, so if anyone can offer evidence of extraordinary no food or water fasts, please go ahead and try to add it to the article.

[catbert836]

49. That's incredible

I only wish I had enough patience and strength to go through such an intense spiritual experience as that young man does. I wish him all the best.

[greyl]

51. Cindy Sheehan is much more 'incredible', imo.

She kicks Ram Bomjon's ass.

What would you say to convince someone else that the story of Ram Bomjon is true?

[catbert836]

58. Hold on a moment

My comments were speaking from the assumption that his story was true. I'm open to the possibility that it's not. Call me foolish, but I am a rather spiritual person who thinks that supernatural things like this can and do happen. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.
It all goes down to the question of faith, doesn't it? We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
And I never said Cindy Sheehan wasn't incredible. She most definitely is.

[trotsky]

59. Hold on a minute.

You encounter a claim that runs counter to everything we know about human metabolism, and you ASSUME it's true?

[catbert836]

60. No, that's not what I meant.

I was I either stoned or drunk when I typed that, and looking back on it now, I apoligize for posting something so ridiculous.

[Kailassa]

54. That young man is just a pawn in some greedy bastard's game.

And people who are so eager to believe any nonsense without proof, if it seems to imply spirituality, are flocking to the site and paying for souvenirs, trinkets and food.

By doing so they are encouraging the perpetrators of this hoax, and if the poor kid dies, the wishful naivete of these "believers" will be a large part of the cause.

[greyl]

55. Update: "They can't believe it's Buddha"

It's nice to see some critical thought taking place in a government, eh?

Nepal's "Buddha boy" is under investigation by the authorities, who question his claim not to have eaten anything for six months and are examining his followers' finances.

The government believes that Ram Bomjon, 15, may be breaking his fast to eat at night when his shrine is closed to visitors.

Buddhism experts, the interior ministry and Nepal's leading scientific agency have all been called in to investigate the phenomenon, which has attracted thousands of pilgrims and excitement worldwide.

"We told the shrine management committee, 'Either we need to see everything that is going on or, if this is a fraud, you need to close it down,' " said Hari Har Dahal, a local official. "This has got into the media all over the world. If it is not true, it will be bad for the country."

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/03/wbuddha03.xml

[greyl]

56. "Nepal to probe mystery 'Buddha' boy"

KATHMANDU (Reuters) - Authorities in Nepal urged religious groups and scientists on Sunday to help solve the mystery of a meditating teenaged boy who some believe is an incarnation of Buddha.

At least 100,000 devotees from Nepal and neighbouring India have flocked in recent weeks to a dense forest in southeastern Nepal to see 15-year-old Ram Bahadur Bamjon, who, his associates say, has been meditating without food or water for six months.

Shanta Raj Subedi, district administrator of Bara, 150 km southeast of Kathmandu and where the boy is meditating, said he had requested the Lumbini Development Trust, a Buddhist panel, and the Royal Nepal Academy of Science and Technology to get to the bottom of the mystery.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051127/india_nm/india225191

[greyl]

57. Quake survivor amazes doctors

Doctors say it is a miracle.

Naqsha Bibi, 40, was recovered alive from the debris of a collapsed house in Pakistan-administered Kashmir on 10 December.

The unexpected rescue came more than two months after the 8 October earthquake destroyed large parts of Indian and Pakistan-administered Kashmir and northern areas in Pakistan.

Naqsha Bibi, now under hospital treatment, is suffering from muscle stiffness and is so weak that she can barely talk.

She weighs under 35kg - about half the weight of an average woman her size.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4525710.stm

DU LBN

No matter how you cut it, this is a wonderful story, however:

-Was she really trapped for 2 months, or was she a victim of an aftershock collapse?

-The story, thankfully, indicates that there was food and water in the area that she was found.

-I'm wary of any Doctor (this Dr Abdul Hamid) who attributes something to miraculous cause so readily, because it implies something akin to "there's nothing scientific we can learn from this". Dr Hamid said "medical science may struggle to accept it but there are miracles in this world, you know."
I suggest that "medical science may struggle to explain it", is a more fitting attitude for someone who is paid to be a Doctor.

[greyl]

61. Anybody know what's happened with Ram Bomjon? nt

[targetpractice]

64. He went missing today...

Reuters India: Nepal's mystery "Buddha" boy goes missing

[greyl]

66. Thanks :)

I just the saw the thread in LBN.

[smirkymonkey]

62. Um, what's the point?

It sounds kind of lazy.

[Nikia]

63. He should have done a shorter fast

There are ways to have more control over ones body, including metabolism, than people who have not been trained but it cannot go on indefinitely. I don't know if this young man has attempted long fasts while in a meditative trance before but it sounds dangerous not to work up to it even if he would survive. Surely people would have been impressed if he only did this for a couple of weeks or a month and may not have questioned the authenticity of his feat if he was known to be highly spiritual and practiced such things.
The fact that this has gone on for six months and that he has turned into a tourist attraction has turned this feat into something less than sincere and makes it more likely to be a hoax.