Fears/Doubts

[Strong Atheist]

Honesty, please!

I suspect that SOME atheists MAY secretly fear that God(s) exist. I am not one of those. Some atheists may have fears about an afterlife. The irrational (society conditioned) part of me fears this. Rationally, I know that I completely cease to exist after I die, which is nothing to be feared, but the irrational, primitive part of my brain has come up (long ago) with a nightmare scenario: Suppose our consciousness continues, but we have no senses anymore. Deaf, dumb, and blind, we quickly go insane, but continue to exist forever and ever and ever ...

So much for one atheists fears about possibly being wrong. I suspect that many religious people, if they do have fears/doubts at all (note: I AM NOT SAYING THAT THEY DO!) have fears/doubts relating to the existence of God(s). Just sayin' ...

[trotsky]

1. I certainly don't fear being wrong about the god issue, or an afterlife.

Regarding a god, I think Thomas Jefferson put it pretty damn well:

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

Regarding an afterlife: well, there was no "beforelife", so why should there be one after?

[Strong Atheist]

2. Fair enough! nt.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. Why?

I'm an agnostic in theory but an atheist in practice - in the absence of any evidence for a God or gods or an afterlife it seems reasonable to *act* as though they do not exist, and certainly not reasonable to act as though they do (the average over all possible gods and afterlifes is very much like atheism, I think), but there's no evidence that such a thing *doesn't* exist, and as such total certainty that it doesn't isn't justified.

I certainly worry about life after death, but it's not something I worry about much on the grounds that even if it does exist there's nothing I can do about it.

There's no reason there *should* be, but that doesn't mean one can be sure there isn't.

[trotsky]

23. I didn't say anything about total certainty, did I?

No, I said I didn't fear being wrong.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

3. I would imagine any thinking person

would have to acknowledge they might be wrong in this area, regardless of what their "beliefs" are. Because, the thing is...we just don't know.

Now, I'm okay if there is no "God" because to me, the whole universe will suffice as a miracle (meaning we don't understand it all) and nobody can deny that. Maybe just the mechanics of the way this whole set up works is God. And I know that when I die, I am still part of the whole, so I'm okay with that. As far as God in my life now is concerned, I know that when I pray I get answers. But they seem to come from within and not without. Maybe it is just a meditative effect, or maybe there is energy in focused consciousness. Maybe there are actual reasons for prayer working that have nothing to do with God.

Now, the whole concept of a dude up there in a nightgown is kind of far-fetched and I don't really buy into that, but if I get there and he's there, well, that's cool, too. The issue of hell... Yikes. I have never worried about that. Because I just feel a sense of love from whatever it is out there (or in there) and I don't think he/she/it/they are going to throw me into a firely furnace for eternity. That is so obviously a mind-control device it doesn't warrant a second thought.

[Strong Atheist]

5. Cool. We agree on hell. nt.

[Goblinmonger]

6. Now you

seem like the breed of theist that I like. I am sure we could have a beer and talk about all kinds of cool things :toast:

[Strong Atheist]

8. Agreed! TallahasseeGrannie seems to always

be a voice of reason and compassion in these threads ...

[Goblinmonger]

4. I don't think I fear that god may exist

Like you, there is a small part of me that thinks it would be cool for there to be a god. There is a small part of me that really wants to see my dad again after I die. I, like you, know that part of me is irrational.

I also don't fear being wrong. I am a good person. I live my life well. I think most of my life is in line with the stories of how jesus led his life as well as prophets of most other religions. If I die, am wrong about god's existance, and go to some kind of "hell" because of it just because I didn't bow down before that "god," then I don't think I would want to be in "his" egotistical presence after all. Plus, you, me, Trotsky, Zenlightened, et al will be having more fun in hell, anyway. :evilgrin:

I suspect my honesty is going to get me in trouble since the top of this page says Religion/Theology instead of Agnostics/Athiests, but maybe I will be surprised.

[Strong Atheist]

7. Well, if we end in hell

see you there!:evilgrin:

:toast:

I have NO worry on that score; hell does not exist. As far as the topic goes, I meant for both atheists and theists to join in ...

[Goblinmonger]

9. I realize you meant for both

and I think that the topic is a fantastic one for theists and atheists to discuss. I hope it happens. I am just kind of skeptical given other threads that this will happen; maybe today is the day some faith in humanity gets restored.

[Strong Atheist]

10. Thank you for joining in! Telling about fears is not

a sign of weakness; it is just sharing, which we do here at D.U. I have related my (irrational) fear from my buried voices/primitive side; I have given other people the opportunity to do the same. It makes us appear more "human" to others to show that that we are not always 100% certain of everything. We will see if anyone else responds in kind ...

[Midwest_Doc]

11. Quite the Opposite for Me

My belief that there is no god makes me very comfortable and secure. Absent is the fear of the wrath of a capricious and arbitrary god. I am secure in my belief that the comfort I "experienced" before birth will return after death.

[Strong Atheist]

12. Ok nt.

[freestyle]

13. I believe, and I wonder, and I question, yet I still find peace.

I do believe in God and in a personal and eternal connection with that entity. I have talked to dead relatives, and I'm not sure if it was some part of them in me that I really needed to be in touch with, or whether there was a brief connection to the other side. I do have doubts about an afterlife, but whether there is one or not, I try to do the best I can while I'm here. Whatever happens when we die, it is our legacy that we leave behind in the lives we have touched. Any affects on this world from the afterlife are minimal. Like the song goes, "If I can help somebody while I travel along, then my living shall not be in vain." That's what we're all here to do, and whether religious teachings are the basis of it or not, we share a common humanity with responsibilities to one another.

I suppose I really don't have fear, certainly not of God because I see love and fear as exclusive. Doubt is part of being human, and certainty, especially about the inherently mysterious, is a very dangerous thing.

[Strong Atheist]

15. Beautifully said! I agree with what you said

about our duty in life.

[nemo137]

14. Honestly, I do sometimes doubt that there is a God

Theodicy and all that, but where the fear comes in is eternity. I can't imagine it. It literally gives me a headache behind my eyes to think about it. I remember when I was little looking into one of those "boxes of infinity," you know, with the row of lightbulbs and the mirrors on all sides, and having the shit scared out of me. So it's not the idea of dying or an afterlife, it's the pure incomprehensibility of the infinite.

Maybe I'm just a lower being or something, but the idea of something, of time, or anything stretching out that far just doesn't work in my mind. That could also be why calculus is such a chore for me.

I dunno, for what it's worth, someone once explained the concept of eternity vs. the concept of infinite time to me, but it still freaks me out.

[Strong Atheist]

16. I agree about eternity. I would not

want to live like that. Boredom would set in, sooner or later ...

[nemo137]

17. it's not really the boredom it's the bigness (?) of it all.

I just can't make my mind even start to comprehend something that doesn't end. Like I said, same problem I had with calculus. "What'd'ya mean the limit is infinity? How is that even a limit? And how the hell can the area under an infinite curve be one, anyway?"

[Strong Atheist]

18. No one can TRULY comprehend infinity.

I can not COMPREHEND numbers bigger than thousands. Anyone who says they can comprehend infinity is, to put it politely, lying.

[nemo137]

19. Can I tell that to my calc professor?

The final for that class is sort of weighing on my mind.

Sorry to drag the thread off track, by the way.

[Strong Atheist]

25. lol

:rofl:

[htuttle]

20. Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention...

I am absolutely certain there is no 'God' as generally conceived. I am quite sure that when I die, the mind and personality known as 'htuttle' will exist only in the memory of those who've known me.

OTOH, I have a strong personal identification with the biosphere itself. It's where we come from, and it's where our bodies go when they decompose. As long as the biosphere continues to survive, some part of 'who' I am (a part of) will survive, but it will have nothing to do with the personality known as 'htuttle'. I am not suggesting any sort of 'afterlife' for htuttle, just that who I consider to be 'me' encompases both my body/mind, and the greater body I am made from/part of. Imagine yourself as a cell in your arm (or somewhere), and that's what I'm talking about -- it's all in the realm of biology/ecology and more importantly, what it 'means'.

But in surveys, I usually call myself 'pagan', since it's close enough -- I could probably describe my beliefs as 'non-magical wiccan'. The biosphere I am a part of is my 'Supreme Being', but I do not believe that 'magic' is anything but a psychological tool. It's taken me 42 years to come to these conclusions, and I don't think they will change (barring a display of extraordinary evidence to the contrary).

[Strong Atheist]

26. Cool. nt.

[ozone_man]

22. I think most people fear dying,

the will to live is incredibly strong, while the living is good anyway.

As far as an afterlife, I'm sure there is none. Well, how sure does one have to be to say they're sure. I guess at least 99% sure. For me it's a lot more than that. I think we've all been guilty of being positive about something, only to be proven wrong. But that's getting a bit silly. There is no evidence that an afterlife or gods exists, nor any compelling reason why they should. Belief in gods and an afterlife came about because people questioned their existence and the unknowns in the universe, including death and beyond. But I'm afraid it's just wishful thinking that there is something after we die, some other reward. We always want more, don't we?

Everything around me, the natural world, the cosmos, is all that there appears to be. We come from the Earth, we go back to the Earth, what's there to be afraid of? We're going back to the Earth to make compounds for the next life forms to use, to complete the cycle of life. All consciousness is lost when we die.

I like the comment that a poster above made that it was a relief to come to that realization. It really is. There's nothing to worry about after death. There is nothing period. Enjoy life while we have it.

[Strong Atheist]

27. Agree with everything said here. nt.

[Meldread]

24. No fear, perhaps some uncertainty...

I do not fear being incorrect, mostly because I believe that if there is a divine power it has almost no resemblance to any modern day religion. I don't particularly fear the thought of being judged by an old man with a white beard, sitting on a golden throne in a night gown. I have better, more rational fears in my day-to-day life without adding a few irrational ones to the mix.

I cannot rule out everything, simply because I do not know everything. I can only perceive the world through my five senses: taste, touch, hearing, smell and sight. I cannot taste god, touch god, hear god, smell god, or see god therefore I have to draw the conclusion that God does not exist.

However, on the same token I cannot see bacteria without the aid of a microscope. I cannot see x-rays. Therefore, I have to draw the conclusion that my senses are limited to a large extent. I am forced to assert the fact that, while I cannot prove the existence of a God, neither can I disprove its existence, but judging from the current evidence put before me I have to say it is highly likely of his non-existence.

I would argue from a spiritual standpoint that if there was a deity to exist that it would either be so amazingly simple as to make it a mockery of all religions who have made it complex; or so amazingly complex to make all religions look ridiculous in comparison.

Do I often wonder what God would be like if one existed? Of course, but in doing that I have to acknowledge that God cannot be as many religions depict him to be. Therefore, I have to believe them to be false or at the very least inaccurate depictions of the deity - and in my mind I would not picture him a deity at all. I would not even subscribe a gender to it as it to me would be neither male nor female, nor anything resembling a human but something more overtly spiritual in both essence and nature.

[Strong Atheist]

28. Very thoughtful! nt.

[nemo137]

31. I definately agree that all religions depict God inaccurately

even, perhaps especially, the one I identify with. It's like infinity, it's something we just can't wrap our minds, as wonderful and powerful as they are, around.

[InaneAnanity]

29. Everyone fears death

And I think, for atheists, a fear of God is just an extension of a fear of death.

[Strong Atheist]

30. Since I honestly do not believe in god(s)

I do not fear god(s).