I believe atheists, agnostics, progressive Christians, and DUers of other

[Maat]

faiths can unite on one thing - stopping this kind of thing:

**Quote**
A Nation Under God

News: Let others worry about the rapture: For the increasingly powerful Christian Reconstruction movement, the task is to establish the Kingdom of God right now—from the courthouse to the White House.

By John Sugg
December/January 2006 Issue
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/12/a_nation_under_god.html

TRINITY CHAPEL in suburban Atlanta’s Cobb County is hardly the picture of a revolutionary outpost. It’s a stylishly modern Church of God—a denomination that, though conservative, is certainly mainstream. Parishioners are drawn from a community whose average income is a comfortable 35 percent above the national norm, whose tree-lined country roads intersect McMansion subdivisions. If Norman Rockwell were painting suburban sprawl, he’d likely pick Cobb County.
***Endquote**

When you get a chance, read through the article. The thing that disturbs me is that I hear terms contained in this article again and again when perusing religious hardright sites (to see what they are up to). I pretty much think that they have certain relatives of mine convinced there is a 'war on religious expression.' Please look for that term in the article.

Now, I am a person of faith (non-Christian, Religious Scientist), who supports my progressive Christian DU friends, my atheist DU friends, my agnostic DU friends, and my DU friends that belong to various churches and belief-system-type organizations.

I think that we need to spread the link to this article around. I have been researching the religious right for a local community group I'm involved in (for about two years), and this is good reporting. I think that people need to speak up against this type of extremism - and it can be done without insulting any of the DUers I mentioned above.

Thoughts?

[FutureChild]

1. I believe that they are all fertile

And will have children.
I believe that their child future is more important than all this bickering's.
I believe that they will not let their children down.

[greyl]

2. But what about the over population

of bunnies with pancakes on their heads?

[FutureChild]

5. Overpopulation?

Who can afford more than 2 children of the future today?
How much does it cost to raise a child?

When there is not enough even to feed yourself can you afford to feed the child?
They will die, the children of the future, they wil die from todays handiworks.

[greyl]

6. You have a fine sense of humor. nt

[FutureChild]

7. My humour is to think of the future

and what it hold.
President bush just ain't cutting it in this area.

[soliddemocrat]

3. That's the biggest piece of crap i've ever read

My God that is the biggest piece of crap i've ever read, It literally trashes religion. They're not just trying to trash religion, they're trying to change religion, they're trying to change the whole f**king bible. Here's what i say to that idea :puke: . My God, ok i for one am a devout Catholic and no sooner was i like less than half way through this article i knew it was a piece of garbage. I just was scrolling down and skimming it with my eyes and reading and reading and reading and i'm thinking "My God who in the world would want to think like this? This totally goes against the bibles beliefs." It goes against the fact that God created Adam and Eve and that they ate an apple from the tree of knowledge because the serpent convinced them to. And God banned them from the Garden of Eden, and God said he would make Adam and Eve and everybody after them mortals for the rest of their lives (and sinners as well). Adam and Eve had a kid and they called him Isaac. My God read Genesis in the bible it's in there, the bible says it all. F**k what all these politicians say about religion they don't know jack s**t about religion. They couldn't be religious if their lives depended on it, h**l they couldn't be religious if their mothers asked them to they're that pathetic. So please for the love of God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary and everything out there that gives us hope,praise,glory,grace and serenity, if you ever fall upon that kind of trash again throw it out the f**king window please, Thank you so very much. I hope to hear from you soon,good luck in all you do. My god i can never imagine a country living under such corrupt circumstances of religion, it's almost like the time when the templars were trying to convert all these other religions to christianity but they failed and they were eventually defeated. Only that story has more reason behind it that one has more fact behind it, more rationality behind it, it's not corrupt like this.

[Maat]

4. Yeah, it's pretty disturbing.

Sorry to upset - it is just that these extremists seem to have the ear of certain Bushies, and they ARE influencing extremists like Falwell and Dobson, who seem like semi-extremists next to guys like DeMar and North.

I don't fear them so much being able to take over tomorrow or anything. But people need to know about the extremism that is taking over, and how the more conservative Christians are being manipulated by these loonies.

[nemo137]

8. Fuckin' A

I've know about this for a while (it's sort of hard not to on DU), but reading about Roy Moore in connection with it makes me sick. The thing is, I don't know what to do. These people aren't in my denominations, I can't call them out or urge against choosing one as my pastor. I'm not going to submit myself to a megachurch so I can be a blip on the screen when I stand up and walk out. This is something that needs to be handled as a civil matter, which is unfortunate as that means we need judges who aren't going to be complete asshats and are going to interpret the constitution correctly.

Pfeh, pfeh, and pfeh. I'm in kind of a bitter mood over this.

[trotsky]

9. You'd think that, but...

I've been told by more than one DUer that extremists like this aren't a danger, they don't constitute a large enough section of the population, they don't really wield political power, etc.

Maybe these Christian DUers think that Jesus will protect us.

[Maat]

10. Now, Trotsky, that line about Jesus was a little snippy ..

and I say that with love.

:hug:

There are many of us who are both people of faith and activists fighting this type of influence. Be fair.

We've formed a spiritual circle that is going to get active as to separation-of-church-and-state issues (e.g. writing letters to the editor).

And I'm going to be participating in some progressively and spiritually minded internet forums getting ideas on how to draw attention to this problem.

I did a presentation on it, and the local attorneys and others who are of the hardright religious viewpoint.

So, awareness is being raised.

And, best of all, we defeated a couple of these hardrighties in the local school board election this past November!

[trotsky]

13. But my point is,

if we can't even agree as progressives the danger these people present, how can we possibly beat them? I don't think that my snippy comment is all that far from the truth when it comes to some folks on here. They think their faith is right, other faiths are wrong, and bad people always get punished. Happy happy joy joy.

And of those liberal Christians who do recognize the fundies to be a threat, few acknowledge that the strategy of trying to "out-Jesus" them (fight religion with more religion) is a losing proposition.

[Maat]

15. You're right that we can't 'out-Jesus' them.

I'm not a Christian anyway; but I'm sure that everyone I know wouldn't even try.

I do also agree that the strategy has to be to fight for the strictest separation of church and state. I repreatedly emphasize that it's a matter of government staying out of the religion business, completely, and has nothing whatsoever to do with an individual's private/semi-private religious expression.

Since I'm part of a faith that honors all paths, the right/wrong thing is a problem for me - I even support my husband's Pastafarianism!

It probably doesn't hurt to point out to an extremist how far away from a prophet's wisdom he is - now and again - any prophet's. I do agree, however, that is not how we will win the overall war.

[NMMNG]

11. I read this in the print edition

Anyone who thinks these people are just wingnuts who pose no danger is wrong. They are powerful, they are creating change, and they are frightening.

[Meldread]

12. These people are the largest threat to America.

They are a threat, not just to America but all of the free world. Why does America fear Terrorists, people who hide in caves, when they should be fearing their next door neighbor who is plotting to overthrow the Government? These people are more dangerous than the Taliban. They are more dangerous than Osama bin Laden. They are as dangerous as Hitler ever was, and every day they grow in power and in numbers.

The Hitler connection is not over exaggerated.

"The Old Testament—with its 600 or so Mosaic laws—is the inflexible guide for the society DeMar and other Reconstructionists envision. Government posts would be reserved for the righteous, as long as they are male. There would be thousands of executions a year, with stoning a preferred method because it would turn the deaths into “community projects,” as movement theologian North has noted. Sinners in line for the death penalty would include women who commit adultery or lie about their virginity, blasphemers, witches, children who strike their parents, and gay men (lesbians, however, would be spared because no specific reference to them can be found in the Books of Moses). DeMar told me that among Reconstructionists he is considered something of a liberal, because he’d execute gays only if they were caught indulging in sodomy. “I’m happy to just drive them back into the closet,” he said."

These people are the "new-Nazi's".

[GOPFighter]

14. We need to take this seriously, and fight it

On one hand it's easy to say, "These people are SO kookie, the general population will never take them seriously." I hope so, but I wouldn't count on it. These concepts have a lot of appeal to angry, insecure people, and the RW is doing their best to turn Americans into just that.

Strange as it seems to me, when people lose their jobs, get deeply into debt, get really sick or have sick family memebers, people become more religious, but they often don't turn to "God is Love" religions, they are attracted to religions that identify people to hate, people they can blame all their troubles on.

The RW is sending jobs overseas, making it harder to get out of debt, and doing noting about the increasing numbers of people who have no healthcare. Their even allowing companies to renege on their pension promises. As America becomes more jobless, more in danger of losing the house or the car, sicker because they afford medical care, and retirees lose their pensions, many will be ready to embrace a religion the has all the answers, that can identify the people responsible for all their woes: liberal, Democrats, progressive Christians, atheists, and a science that doesn't embrace god.

We've got to fight this with letters to the editor, letters to elected officials, and by speaking up when these idiots spout off in public.

[Maat]

16. I agree!

[divdeacon]

17. This is...

scary stuff. I saw a video on the Christian Reconstructionists (I think it was on Prime Time, or 60 Minutes--I wish I still had it) when I was in divinity school. I went to Wake Forest (a liberal divinity school), and had little contact with this sort of drastic perspective (even growing up the deep South, I hadn't been exposed to anything this frenzied and fanatical, and that's saying something). Pretty crazy. The funny thing that struck me was that they only sited the Hebrew scriptures (the "Old Testament," as many call it) when talking about overthrowing the govt., having homosexuals put to death, etc. It just seems to me that if you're going to call yourself "Christian" then at least deal with Christian scriptures (turn the other cheek, and so on)--funny.

Note: I hope no one takes this as a anti-Semitic/supersessionist statement. As I well know from many of my liberal Jewish friends, there is plenty of room for incisive interpretation of the Hebrew scriptures, as there is with the Christian ones. My point was not that the Christian Reconstructionsts' problem was that they were abiding by the Hebrew scriptures, but rather that it's funny that they "pick-and-choose" what they want to believe so liberally (ha!) that they can't even stick to the section of the bible that is distinctly Christian. If I were Jewish, I'd be pissed that (a) they were laying claim to my scripture and (b) that their interpretation of it (and their use of it) was pretty poor.

[Maat]

18. Yes, that's what they do - pick and choose.

And then they give the verse in question their own spin!

In the end, it's all about money and power and control for a few, I suppose, like everything else.