What percentage of DUers classify themselves as "atheist?"

[Maat]

Poll question: What percentage of DUers classify themselves as "atheist?"

I wonder if Skinner's estimate has remained consistent. He estimates that around a third are atheist, another third are "believers," and another third "don't care."

[Maat]

1. I'm a Religious Scientist.

We believe in a God/Goddess within and without (we consture Spirit as more of a genderless entity, who can manifest in many different ways - as many ways as there are living things).

[beam me up scottie]

4. Why is there no category for atheist?

Most of us don't deny god contrary to reichwing propaganda.

[Maat]

34. Didn't intend to offend, BMUS.

I should have included it.

I used 'strong atheist' to denote someone who actively denies the existence of a deity.

I honor atheism, and its variations and degrees, just as I would any other path.

It was my first poll; I'll work harder to flesh it out next time.

[beam me up scottie]

37. S'okay, Maat.

There are plenty of atheists who don't know there's a difference.

Thanks to * and the zealots who installed him, we seem to learn more about differences than similarities these days.

sigh...

[Maat]

45. I forgot the term you use to define yourself.

Maybe you can refresh my memory, if you will!

Happy Holidays!

[beam me up scottie]

48. Heh heh!

Ya got me!

I prefer to use just plain old atheist but that term has been corrupted by christians the way the word "liberal" was corrupted by the republicans.

"Weak" atheist sounds like more of an insult than a qualifier.

I like "implicit" atheist but it's never going to stick.

So I guess I'll have to go with the popular "agnostic" atheist.

Thanks for asking!

[Maat]

50. That's cool!

HeeHee.

A toast to diversity!

:toast:

[beam me up scottie]

52. To diversity!

:toast:

[beam me up scottie]

2. Other.

Not a strong atheist nor an agnostic.

[Maat]

35. I should have asked you what other term to put in (n/t).

[bob4460]

3. See the george carlin thread for all the right reasons to be a athiest

:rant:

[FM Arouet666]

5. What the heck is a strong atheist?

I am an atheist, but strong? I should work out more often? Perhaps I need to take a bath, getting a bit 'strong' in here? If strong atheist is to mean someone with a unassailable world view, then what constitutes a weak atheist? God does not exist, except on Christmas and sundays?

I know you are not the first to coin the phrase on DU, any ideas where it started?

Notes from a physically weak, pleasantly scented, non believer. :evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

8. No, it's been around a while.

It means you actively disbelieve in god - a fundy's wet dream of an atheist, in other words, because you acknowledge his god and deny him.

From Wikipedia:

Strong atheism, sometimes called positive atheism, hard atheism or gnostic atheism, is the philosophical position that deities do not exist. It is a form of explicit atheism, meaning that it consciously rejects theism. It is contrasted with weak atheism, which is the lack or absence of belief in deities, without the additional claim that deities do not exist. The strong atheist positively asserts, at the very least, that no deities exist, and may go further and claim that the existence of some or all gods is logically impossible.

While strong atheism does not necessarily preclude belief in supernatural entities or processes in general, the majority of strong atheists have naturalistic tendencies and would likely also reject such beliefs. However, spiritual or supernatural beliefs would not preclude someone from being a strong atheist.

[FM Arouet666]

12. Sounds convoluted, believers apologetics?

I agree, fantasy material for a fundie wet dream. As a statement I would declare myself to be an atheist, no understanding of a supernatural world, knowledge and experience confined to the natural world. As with science, options are always left open, new information considered, views amended. Just a minute, Knock, Knock, someone is at the door......

Hey, its Jesus!!

Whats that lord....... You don't believe in me either?....... Have a nice day and here is your complementary fruit cake? What an odd savior!

Got to love him, if he does exist, he has a hell of a sense of humor. :evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

15. *SNORT!

What do you expect?

Critical thinking on the left apparently only goes so far and it's easier to believe the religious propaganda that has vilified atheists since gods were invented.

[FM Arouet666]

19. I would state that

critical thinking for the believer only goes so far, when pushed to accept one world view over another, the atheist will always be sacrificed. If the fundies take control, imposing a theocracy with harsh penalty for atheism or supporting a known atheist, how many liberal christians would risk life and limb for the atheist? Some would, and I suspect if the tables were turned you would find a number of indignant atheists allowing persecution of believers.

Tolerance is the fruit of the tree of rationality. A world of liberal believers could probably co-exist peacefully with atheists, the problem is that this is not the world we live in. A person is constantly forced to take sides, from where I sit, I see fundies trying to convert the world and atheists trying to survive. Don't see many atheists actively proselytizing at the local Safe-way, attempting to strip the believer of their religion. I am feeling ranty

[beam me up scottie]

23. No kidding.

According to some, we're never supposed to be critical of anything religious, and if we are, we're guilty of persecution.

I think some actually fantasize about being persecuted.

[FM Arouet666]

26. I know the 'some' to which you refer

I am critical of all things religious. However, I do bite my tongue at times, call me stubby tongue. The fundamental principal behind judeo-christian religion is that a supernatural world exists, I know this because I was watching TBN last night and listening to Dennis Prager this morning. Yes, I know it will rot my mind, but it is like an accident at the side of the road, you just have to look.

How can I respect a belief in a supernatural other than acknowledge that another human being has the right to believe what they want. That belief shall not infringe on my ability to not believe in a super natural. Let the believer suffer to live amongst the sinner, that is the mandate in my America, and eventually on this planet.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

32. As I stated in an earlier thread

Religion is like sex. I don't care if you fuck goats, as long as it is consensual, nobody gets hurt, and you don't try to make me do it! As for me, I don't personally believe in an imaginary friend for adults, who lives in the sky. I believe in the flying Spaghetti Monster! Ra men.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Goats can't give their consent.

Freepers compare same sex marriage to bestiality using that same reasoning.

Something to think about.

[FM Arouet666]

39. What a minute, you have some info on consensual goats.

Dammit man, you have to share, throw me a bone........:evilgrin:

[stillcool]

6. I don't know what label fits...

as I don't believe in any religion...but I believe in some kind of something that wakes me up every day.

[Goblinmonger]

49. You believe in your alarm clock? n/t

[beam me up scottie]

53. Oh, great.

Now we gotta come up with a name for that...
:evilgrin:

[stillcool]

57. That too....but not so much...n/t

[longship]

7. I object to the characterization that your choices imply.

You don't call the believers, "Strong believers" but you only list "Strong atheist"

I've never f*cking heard of a "strong atheist". I am an atheist. That's all.

Your poll is insulting.

[beam me up scottie]

9. Exactly.

Begs the question.

[FM Arouet666]

13. Amen. Ooops, I mean I agree. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

16. Makes you wonder what the motivation was.

So when did you stop beating your wife?

[FM Arouet666]

22. ?

Wait, I meant to say ?.

[beam me up scottie]

24. A question used to illustrate begging the question.

Like if we were to start a poll with only the following two choices:

1) How many DUers believe in fairy tales and superstitious nonsense

2) How many are atheists

See how long that would last.

[FM Arouet666]

27. I am dense tonight. Every night? Thanks, I get it now....

Yes, I agree, that would go over like a lead balloon. A poll crafted supporting a religious world view with the atheist cast in the negative would probably survive, albeit with protests falling upon deaf ears.

[Maat]

36. I was using the definition of 'strong atheist' as defined by Wikipedia.

BMUS has posted the link up above.

[longship]

42. I got it, but I don't get it.

I've an atheist for my entire life (approaching 60 now). I've never heard of a "strong atheist" before. It must be the creation of somebody who likes to group people into categories. I don't think an atheist would necessarily characterize herself like that.

By the definition given, I am a strong atheist. But then your poll entirely leaves out all the other atheists. Please do not label them "wimpy atheists". Your poll presumes a non-existent dichotomy.

[Maat]

46. I never used the term "wimpy atheist."

And "strong atheist" wasn't referring to inner strength, merely which side of the rainbow one was on the great rainbow of atheism.

And the range is there; ask Beam Me Up Scottie.

[beam me up scottie]

51. I think the term "strong" atheist was created in an attempt to reclaim

the original and broad definition of the word "atheist", which means "lack of theism".

Christians tried to redefine the word to mean one who denies god, and unfortunately, this is the definition that made its way into English dictionaries.

I like to refer to "strong" atheists as Dictionary atheists for that reason.

The simplest explanation, as usual, can be found on Wikipedia:

Implicit and explicit atheism

The terms implicit atheism and explicit atheism were coined by George H. Smith (1979, p.13-18).

Implicit atheism is defined by Smith as "the absence of theistic belief without a conscious rejection of it." Explicit atheism is defined as "the absence of theistic belief due to a conscious rejection of it", which, according to Smith, is sometimes called antitheism (see below).




A chart showing the relationship between the weak/strong (positive/negative) and implicit/explicit dichotomies. Strong atheism is always explicit, and implicit atheism is always weak.

************************************************

The terms weak atheism and strong atheism (or, alternatively, negative atheism and positive atheism) are often used as synonyms of Smith's less-well-known implicit and explicit categories. However, the original and technical meanings of implicit and explicit atheism are quite different and distinct from weak and strong atheism, having to do with conscious rejection and unconscious rejection of theism rather than with positive belief and negative belief.

People who do not use the broad definition of atheism as "lack of theism", but instead use the most common definition "disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods" <4> would not recognize mere absence of belief in deities (implicit atheism) as a type of atheism at all, and would tend to use other terms, such as "skeptic" or "agnostic" or "non-atheistic nontheism", for this position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Implicit_and_explicit_atheism

Not really simple, is it? :banghead:

[Der Blaue Engel]

10. Gotta go with "other"

I generally describe myself as "atheistic pagan." Some days I feel more agnostic. Other days I sway toward believing in a literal goddess, but most days I feel certain that there is nothing out there.

[tulsakatz]

11. I'm not an atheist.........

.........but I have a good friend who's an atheist. And guess what? He's also a Republican!! Don't ask me how that happened..........I have no idea.

I do believe in God, I just don't share the fundamentalist's view.

[Erika]

14. There are the gay Log Cabin Republicans also

Maybe your atheist friend is into masochism as well.

[farmboxer]

17. If Bush, Cheney, Asschroft, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson,

Rev.Dobson, Bush family very close friend, Rev. Moon, Gary Bauer, Ralph Reed, Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggert and their ilk are Christians, then I do not want to have anything to do with such a false belief system. If the fundamentalists are going to Heaven, then I don't want to be there! Hell, give me Hell!!!!!!!!!!!

[Straight Shooter]

20. You know the old saying: Heaven for climate, hell for atmosphere.

:evilgrin:

[FM Arouet666]

29. Hell sounds a lot more fun to me

No religious assholes, free of all those which refused to drink, to toke, to cuss, and to get bare ass naked with the strawberry jam wearing leather straps and those little pink fuzzy..... Oops, I think I am having a fantasy moment. Er, Uh, yeah, I agree, Lets all go to Hellllllllll......:evilgrin:

[AndyTiedye]

30. Maybe I'll Go to Hell and Fix the Air Conditioning

With eternal fire as a power source, at least we shouldn't have to worry about running out of energy!

[longship]

43. And when you get to Hell.

Satan will offer two choices...

Death or Chi-Chi?

The man in front of you will choose Chi-Chi whereupon he is stuffed into a barrel, set on fire, raped by rabid chimpanzees, and rolled down a hill into a river of boiling dung.

Satan then says to you, Death or Chi-Chi?

Seeing how bad Chi-Chi is, you will choose death.

Satan says, Death it is!!! But first...

Chi-Chi!!!

[tulsakatz]

44. not that I know of........ n/t

[DemInDistress]

18. what the hell is agnostic ?? no disrespect to agnogs...nt

[beam me up scottie]

21. From Wikipedia:

Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth values of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding the existence of God, gods, or deities—are unknown, inherently unknowable, or incoherent, and therefore, (some agnostics may go as far to say) irrelevant to life. The term and the related agnostic were coined by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869, and are also used to describe those who are unconvinced or noncommittal about the existence of deities as well as other matters of religion. The word agnostic comes from the Greek a (without) and gnosis (knowledge). Agnosticism, focusing on what can be known, is an epistemological position (dealing with the nature and limits of human knowledge); while atheism and theism are ontological positions (a branch of metaphysics that deals with what types of entities exist). Agnosticism is not to be confused with a view specifically opposing the doctrine of gnosis and Gnosticism—these are religious concepts that are not generally related to agnosticism.

[DemInDistress]

25. Thanks you Scottie !!

and thanks for the new tool(Wiki) So many religions to chose from.

[beam me up scottie]

28. One stop shopping!

:evilgrin:

You're welcome!

[beyurslf]

31. Atheist.

I can find only one logical conclusion for the existence of god: it is a hateful, mean-spirited, jealous, and uncaring god--and I would rather think that a god like this didn't exist.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. I wouldn't classify myself as a "believer"

but I wouldn't classify myself as an atheist either. I'm a secularist who believes in some sort of divine power in the universe. I don't buy into any set of religious beliefs, but I like the symbolism contained in some of them.

I guess I don't categorize easily. I don't think I fit into any of Skinners categories at all.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

40. Skinner's estimate looks still to be about right.

The answers currently suggest slightly more atheists and fewer agnostics than that, but I would expect the religion forum to be biased in that direction with regards to the site as a whole.

[Strong Atheist]

41. I am not saying!

And you can't make me!:P

[Maat]

47. Yeah! You don't give us any clues!

;)

[Strong Atheist]

56. Aaaack!

Busted!


What gave me away?

:silly:

[Maat]

59. HeeHee.

Merry Christmas (said with a little levity)!

:silly:

Really, happy new year!

[Strong Atheist]

60. Hey, Merry Christmas!

To ME, it is a secular holiday to be with relatives,friends, exchange appreciation gifts, and NOT WORK.

[TechBear_Seattle]

54. Agnostic neo-pagan Humanist, here

Most days, though, I just describe myself as "non-religious." I take no stand on whether or not God (or god(s)) exists, so I'm neither a theist nor an atheist. I think the question "Can we know about God?" is itself unanswerable, so I can't claim to be either gnostic or agnostic.

Personally, I see the whole mess as irrelevant. I will live my life the best that I can, not out of a hope for Heaven, not out of a fear of Hell, but because it is the right way to live my life. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the story.

[NMMNG]

55. Plain old atheist

I don't deny the existence of god(s), I simply don't believe.

[ozone_man]

58. I was a plain old atheist.

Until I started working out, but I'm still not "strong" yet. ;) I think the weak/strong definition is a bit silly, but the whole idea of God is silly, so maybe we need to combat silliness with more silliness? Atheist works perfectly fine for me.

But as I understand it, the strong atheist can rationalize denying the existence of God in the sense that it is so unlikely that some evidence, any evidence, is required before it can be seriously considered. In science, things are false unless shown otherwise. We can't go around life treating all sorts of implausible things with the same consideration as things that are real, or that have real evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordnary evidence. There is none of any kind, so we can deny it's existence in the same way that we deny the existence of fairies or other magical beings.

On the other hand, no one can prove that there are no gods, but just as no one can prove many things in life or the universe, most of these things do not warrant consideration, until such a time arises that there is some evidence that might warrant further consideration. So, like fairies and dragons, we can confidently say that they don't exist. Though I do like reading about dragons.

Having said that, I think that many atheists feel spiritual, which is really just a state of consciousness. It's ourself, not God. And many atheists, specially me, feel a sense of awe and wonder in nature, spiritual even, but again it's the works of natural evolution and our ability to sense and appreciate them that are so wonderful, not God. So, in many ways, I'm a pantheist, or during the winter holidays, I feel very pagan and practice some of the same traditions as they did around this time of year. Happy Yule!

[Strong Atheist]

61. Come! nt.

[SteppingRazor]

62. I'm agnostic. Here's why --

I will never know whether or not there is a god. So, there's no point in even considering it, as it's a question that will never get answered. And thus, if there is a God, I'll never know what he/she/it wants out of me. Any notions I have of goodness, decency, or righteousness are not based in the idea of a higher power. What is good is intrinsically good, without a higher power branding it as so. I don't really understand the concept of "faith" -- it seems to me to simply be belief based on nothing at all.
Why believe in Allah? Because Muhammed came out of a cave, said an angel spoke to him, and told you to?
Why believe in Jesus? Because his body mysteriously disappeared from a cave three days after he died, and his followers all claimed to have seen him afterward?
Why believe in Mormonism? Because Joseph Smith said an angel spoke to him, and only him, and told him how everything works (where have I heard that before...)?

I think you can look to the stories of Jesus or Buddha as role models of a good, altruistic life. Too, you could look to Ghandi or Mother Theresa. Moreover, I wouldn't be convinced that any of those people -- or any one else, ever -- had everything right. You have to deicde right and wrong for yourself, and then accept the consequences of your creed.

You'll never know whether or not there is a god, so why bother trying to answer the question? It's a useless endeavor. Live a good life simply because it's the right thing to do. You'll find out everything else after your dead. Or you won't. If the former, and you lived a good life, you're fine. If the latter, then it won't matter anyway. But at least you were a righteous person, and you did it not out of fear of eternal damnation, but out of the simple conviction that doing right is, in and of itself, the right thing to do.

I don't think anyone can be asked to do more, or less, than that.

[MN ChimpH8R]

63. Depends on the day

On my intellectually rigorous days, I am an atheist. The rules of argument (and law) are that the burden remains on the party seeking to prove the case. By that standard, atheism wins.

On my more frequent intellectually sloppy days, I am an agnostic.

Carl Sagan summed up my feelings bestL: "I'd rather know than believe"