State bill proposes Christianity be Missouri’s official religion

[nickinSTL]

cross-posted in Missouri forum

Missouri legislators in Jefferson City considered a bill that would name Christianity the state's official "majority" religion.

The resolution would recognize "a Christian god," and it would not protect minority religions, but "protect the majority's right to express their religious beliefs.

The resolution also recognizes that, "a greater power exists," and only Christianity receives what the resolution calls, "justified recognition."

State representative David Sater of Cassville in southwestern Missouri, sponsored the resolution, but he has refused to talk about it on camera or over the phone.

KMOV also contacted Gov. Matt Blunt's office to see where he stands on the resolution, but he has yet to respond.

http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/030206ccklrKmovreligionbill.7d361c3f.html

[tecelote]

1. Unbelievable.

[HereSince1628]

2. Do we need to teach them to read, or just send them the Constitution?

Incredible.

[Dora]

3. OMFGIH n/t

:wow:

[htuttle]

4. So, is their next move to tear down all the synagogues like in Tajikstan?

[TechBear_Seattle]

5. Please tell me this is satire. Please.

This is satire, right? Like my post about South Dakota making witchcraft a capital offense? (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=555090&mesg_id=555090) Right?


RIGHT?!

[Dora]

7. I had to double-check for satire too.

This is so stupidly brilliant of them. I am agape. Do you think it could work?

[nickinSTL]

11. note the source...it's legit.

reported on the local (St. Louis) CBS affiliate this morning.

Clearly, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." is too complex for them.

[DaDeacon]

6. OK There is this thing ..The US Constitution

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances.

-=The End=-.....NEXT

[DaDeacon]

9. Next

[coffeenap]

16. "Congress" cannot. Can states? nt

[reality based]

23. The 14th Amendment has been interpreted to apply 1st Amendment

to the states. Maybe Sammmy Alito and his buddies will revisit that.

[One_Life_To_Give]

19. Not outlawed under 1st ammendment

Don't forget. At the time of ratification of the constitution. There were states who had official religions and states where only members of certain religions could vote.

It was a latter ammendment thata makes this unconstitutional.

[Ediacara]

54. The Missouri Constitution is also violated by this bill

Article I, Section II

Promotion of general welfare--natural rights of persons--equality under the law--purpose of government.

Section 2. That all constitutional government is intended to promote the general welfare of the people; that all persons have a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and the enjoyment of the gains of their own industry; that all persons are created equal and are entitled to equal rights and opportunity under the law; that to give security to these things is the principal office of government, and that when government does not confer this security, it fails in its chief design.


Article I, Section V

Religious freedom--liberty of conscience and belief--limitations.

Section 5. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; that no human authority can control or interfere with the rights of conscience; that no person shall, on account of his religious persuasion or belief, be rendered ineligible to any public office or trust or profit in this state, be disqualified from testifying or serving as a juror, or be molested in his person or estate; but this section shall not be construed to excuse acts of licentiousness, nor to justify practices inconsistent with the good order, peace or safety of the state, or with the rights of others.

Article I, Section VI

Practice and support of religion not compulsory--contracts therefor enforceable.

Section 6. That no person can be compelled to erect, support or attend any place or system of worship, or to maintain or support any priest, minister, preacher or teacher of any sect, church, creed or denomination of religion; but if any person shall voluntarily make a contract for any such object, he shall be held to the performance of the same.

Article I, Section VII

Public aid for religious purposes--preferences and discriminations on religious grounds.

Section 7. That no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect or denomination of religion, or in aid of any priest, preacher, minister or teacher thereof, as such; and that no preference shall be given to nor any discrimination made against any church, sect or creed of religion, or any form of religious faith or worship.


---
This will be struck down LONG before it makes it to Scalito's desk.

[reality based]

8. Soon to be a case before Sammy Alito et al. n/t

[depakid]

10. Since when have majorities' rights needed protecting

Sounds more like fundamentalist bigotry to me....

[reality based]

15. It's a fascist thing n/t

[Inland]

12. Feeling their oats, or mobilizing another generation of RW religious

activism?

Either they think they think these bills are going to be approved by the SC thanks to Alito, or they think they will fall and, son of a gun, there needs to be another eight years of fundamentalist christian efforts to elect republicans.

I personally think they are wrong. I think that the right wing christians think that putting up with thirty years of effort and eight years of republcian fuckhead rule is enough and they want their payback NOW. If this stuff gets struck down OR approved, they are going home and the backlash cometh.

[Goblinmonger]

30. I know this will shock you, but I agree with you

Either way, the fallout from this is going to suck. Obviously if it passes the repercussions are huge. If it fails, it will just further mobilize the religious right to get even nutty batshitcrazy people into office so that they CAN pass something like this.

We should probably bookmark this for posterity. Inland and Goblinmonger agree in Religion/Theology forum.

[Inland]

31. And it's too late for me to edit my post. The evidence is there, forever.

Clearly it is the end times.

[Goblinmonger]

36. The temple has been ripped assunder. n/t

[formerrepuke]

13. This cannot be happening- the founders are turning in their graves.

[shenmue]

14. Unconstitutional!

And fucking insane!

[TechBear_Seattle]

24. Not necessarily unconstitutional

The article mentions this being a resolution, not a bill. Resolutions are statements of policy, not laws. As such, the First Amendment is being bypassed but not violated.

Pretty sad, that the Pharisees of today would play fast and loose with the spirit of the Law why obeying it to the letter. Exactly opposite of what Jesus taught.

[nickinSTL]

29. but...

how would a resolution protect the majority's right to worship, and not the minority?

[TechBear_Seattle]

39. As a policy statement, it puts the state "on notice"

It means that, as far as possible, Christianity will be favored while non-Christians -- Jews, Muslims, atheists, Wiccans, etc. -- will be shit upon. If the governor endorses the resolution, it signals that he, too, as chief executive of the state, will use the resolution to shape the policies of his administration.

It won't actually change any laws, but it could very well shape how laws are crafted by the Legislature, implemented and enforced by the Governor and interpreted by the state courts.

And until the boundary of discrimination is actually crossed, there is not one damn thing anyone can do except vote the bigots out. Seeing as this is Missouri, I don't think that is very likely.

[grytpype]

17. I guess they've solved all of Missouri's other problems...

... so they have time to waste telling everyone which religion is the "majority religion." What a bunch of Jesus-besotted dumbasses.

[nickinSTL]

20. I guess they feel they've accomplished their goal...

of gutting Medicare and mental health services, so it's time to move on.

[coffeenap]

18. I would like to see this in GD or LBN--it is important to all of us!

Thanks.:hi:

[nickinSTL]

25. posted to GD

:hi:

[coffeenap]

38. Thanks!

:hi:

[arwalden]

21. And People Wonder Why Non-Christians And Non-Believers Feel THREATENED...

... by Christians.

[AllegroRondo]

22. This is how they will mobilize voters for the elections

by getting this thing on a statewide ballot for November. They know it will never pass the SCOTUS, but thats not the point. It will get thousands of right wing fundies to the polls to vote for their religion.

[no_hypocrisy]

26. Why stop there? Why not legislatively declare * to be the return of the

Messiah?

[BlueEyedSon]

27. There is nothing on Google news about this

[charlie]

28. Text of Sater's resolution

House Concurrent Resolution No. 13

93RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY

4572L.02I

Whereas, our forefathers of this great nation of the United States recognized a Christian God and used the principles afforded to us by Him as the founding principles of our nation; and

Whereas, as citizens of this great nation, we the majority also wish to exercise our constitutional right to acknowledge our Creator and give thanks for the many gifts provided by Him; and

Whereas, as elected officials we should protect the majority's right to express their religious beliefs while showing respect for those who object; and

Whereas, we wish to continue the wisdom imparted in the Constitution of the United States of America by the founding fathers; and

Whereas, we as elected officials recognize that a Greater Power exists above and beyond the institutions of mankind:

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the members of the House of Representatives of the Ninety-third General Assembly, Second Regular Session, the Senate concurring therein, that we stand with the majority of our constituents and exercise the common sense that voluntary prayer in public schools and religious displays on public property are not a coalition of church and state, but rather the justified recognition of the positive role that Christianity has played in this great nation of ours, the United States of America.

http://www.house.mo.gov/bills061/biltxt/intro/HCR0013I.htm

[AllegroRondo]

32. I see - its for religious displays on public property

that voluntary prayer in public schools and religious displays on public property are not a coalition of church and state, but rather the justified recognition of the positive role that Christianity has played in this great nation of ours

volunatary prayer has never been against the law, so I dont see why that should be included here except perhaps as a diversion.

But religious displays on public property is another matter entirely.

[One_Life_To_Give]

35. Trying to call "Displays" Historic

Attempt to redefine religous displays on public property as "Historic" instead of religious.

While there are historic displays that will include religous items. What they are seeking is far more than just historical items.

[charlie]

43. I think they're both red herrings

It's the resolved declarations that are the point. Get nominally secularist legislators to vote for it and a swath of their constituents will think they've lost their minds. Get them to vote against it and they're hamstrung in the coming election season.

My opponent believes there is no higher power than Man.

My opponent doesn't recognize your constitutional right to worship.

My opponent is unwilling to protect your God-given right to religious expression.

[AllegroRondo]

44. Which gets the right wing fundies to the polls in November

to vote for Jesus.

[trotsky]

53. Precisely.

voluntary prayer has never been against the law

The Clinton admin even had a big press release about that, pointing out just what people ARE allowed to do. Problem is, a lot of these folks think commandeering the PA before a football game is "voluntary."

[Broke In Jersey]

33. Seems the bill simply acknowledges the existance of a "greater power"

as opposed to "establishing" Christianity as the official state religion. But even if it did, it really doesn't do anything from a law point of view. Our state animal is the horse. That doesn't mean I have to like horses or that people that have horses or worship them have rights that I don't have.

[Goblinmonger]

37. Yeah, that's all it is

It doesn't say this:

our forefathers of this great nation of the United States recognized a Christian God and used the principles afforded to us by Him as the founding principles of our nation

Oh, wait, it does. Not only is that statement a clear establishment of Christianity, it is absolutely false. The vast majority of our founding fathers either didn't give a rat's ass about religion or were deists. They were not Christian. They were not recognizing a Christian God.

This resolution MUST not pass. It must be struck down. This is CLEARLY a seperation of church and state issue. If Missouri wants to vote the Christian God as their favorite mythological figure, I have no problem with that. Recognizing Christianity as the official state religion is batshitcrazy insane.

[arwalden]

42. I'm Glad I Don't Have Your Nerve In MY TOOTH.

[Strong Atheist]

50. Enjoy your stay on D.U. nt.

[CornField]

34. And Sater's thoughts about the resolution

http://davidsater.com/news.html

House Concurrent Resolution (HCR 13) reflections upon the historical significance that Christianity has had in shaping our way of life, our government, and how our early leaders relied on their Christian faith in governing our first constitution. It states that the common sense that voluntary prayer in public schools and religious displays on public property are not a coalition of church and state, but rather the justified recognition of the positive role that Christianity has played in this great nation of ours, the United States of America.

[arwalden]

41. Oh Good Grief!! What A Bucket Of Pig Shit!

[genie_weenie]

45. The scariest line is this:

Whereas, we as elected officials recognize that a Greater Power exists above and beyond the institutions of mankind


A flood destroyed St. Louis, you say? Well it couldn't be helped, we as elected officials recognize a greater power and that's what is responsible...

edit to include a deist link, as if anyone will ever read these words I type...
http://www.deism.org/foundingfathers.htm

[DeaconNoGood]

59. I checked out your link

about the founding fathers. The majority of the quotes refer to the founding fathers recognition that the cabalistic Catholic encroachment on personal rights of individuals was very powerful and objectional. A strong case for the 1st amendment - no law establishing a state religion. However, it does negate the fact that nearly all of the founding fathers and leaders in early America were strong Christians.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

61. "our forefathers of this great nation of the United States recognized

a Christian God"

:wtf:

What part of "They were DEISTS!" do these fuckwads not understand?

:grr::grr:

[DBoon]

40. So are they going to strip non-Christians of their citizenship?

Require a declaration of faith before you can vote?

[genie_weenie]

46. The infamous Bush41 line

The following exchange took place at the Chicago O'Hare airport between Robert I. Sherman of American Atheist Press and George Bush, on August 27 1987. Sherman is a fully accredited reporter, and was present by invitation as a member of the press corps. The Republican presidential nominee was there to announce federal disaster relief for Illinois. The discussion turned to the presidential primary:

RS:
"What will you do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?"
GB:
"I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me."
RS:
"Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"
GB:
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."

[Goblinmonger]

47. That reminds me of this song

http://www.punkvoter.com/anim/anim-idiot.html

One of my father-son favs.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

62. Whoever put "under God" in the pledge....

:grr:

Asininebatshitcrazyfuckinginsane.

[LisaLynne]

48. Here we go -- they really are trying to move us to a ...

theocracy.

[The Witch]

49. Text of the bill is here

http://www.house.mo.gov/bills061/biltxt/intro/HCR0013I.htm

SECOND REGULAR SESSION

House Concurrent Resolution No. 13

93RD GENERAL ASSEMBLY
4572L.02I

Whereas, our forefathers of this great nation of the United States recognized a Christian God and used the principles afforded to us by Him as the founding principles of our nation; and

Whereas, as citizens of this great nation, we the majority also wish to exercise our constitutional right to acknowledge our Creator and give thanks for the many gifts provided by Him; and

Whereas, as elected officials we should protect the majority's right to express their religious beliefs while showing respect for those who object; and

Whereas, we wish to continue the wisdom imparted in the Constitution of the United States of America by the founding fathers; and

Whereas, we as elected officials recognize that a Greater Power exists above and beyond the institutions of mankind:

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the members of the House of Representatives of the Ninety-third General Assembly, Second Regular Session, the Senate concurring therein, that we stand with the majority of our constituents and exercise the common sense that voluntary prayer in public schools and religious displays on public property are not a coalition of church and state, but rather the justified recognition of the positive role that Christianity has played in this great nation of ours, the United States of America.

HOLY CRAPOLY. :hide:

[mom cat]

52. Loved this little condescending clause:

Whereas, as elected officials we should protect the majority's right to express their religious beliefs while showing respect for those who object;

ie: We will restect you by ignoring your objections!

[Ediacara]

55. I wonder how that will work when their state Constitution says no

Article I, Section II

Promotion of general welfare--natural rights of persons--equality under the law--purpose of government.

Section 2. That all constitutional government is intended to promote the general welfare of the people; that all persons have a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and the enjoyment of the gains of their own industry; that all persons are created equal and are entitled to equal rights and opportunity under the law; that to give security to these things is the principal office of government, and that when government does not confer this security, it fails in its chief design.


Article I, Section V

Religious freedom--liberty of conscience and belief--limitations.

Section 5. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their own consciences; that no human authority can control or interfere with the rights of conscience; that no person shall, on account of his religious persuasion or belief, be rendered ineligible to any public office or trust or profit in this state, be disqualified from testifying or serving as a juror, or be molested in his person or estate; but this section shall not be construed to excuse acts of licentiousness, nor to justify practices inconsistent with the good order, peace or safety of the state, or with the rights of others.

Article I, Section VI

Practice and support of religion not compulsory--contracts therefor enforceable.

Section 6. That no person can be compelled to erect, support or attend any place or system of worship, or to maintain or support any priest, minister, preacher or teacher of any sect, church, creed or denomination of religion; but if any person shall voluntarily make a contract for any such object, he shall be held to the performance of the same.

Article I, Section VII

Public aid for religious purposes--preferences and discriminations on religious grounds.

Section 7. That no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect or denomination of religion, or in aid of any priest, preacher, minister or teacher thereof, as such; and that no preference shall be given to nor any discrimination made against any church, sect or creed of religion, or any form of religious faith or worship.

[sutz12]

51. Consider also that....

As a resolution, this could also affect such things as government contracts. Not a 'Christian business?' Sorry, the state prefers to work with firms that more closely adhere to the 'people's' majority philosophy.

:scared:

[CatholicEdHead]

56. Just when you think you have seen it all....

[WritingIsMyReligion]

63. ...Fundies strike again.

:grr:

[NMMNG]

57. No, no, no, no, no!

Christianity already is the majority religion in every state. What are Christians so darned afraid of that they need official declarations that they are the majority, statements of their faith on money and in national songs, religious imagery/verse on monuments in public buildings and other venues and so on? Are they so insecure in their faith and position in this country that they need the constant stroking of their egos, as well as whipping and demeaning of those who don't share their beliefs that these things provide?

And to think--the original settlers came here to escape religious oppression! :crazy:

[DeaconNoGood]

58. if you look at early American history.....

you will learn that the original settlers where Christians who fled the persecution of a state church - The Church of England. They came here to freely and publically exercise their Christian beliefs, without being attacked and persecuted by the narrow minds of the day. The 1st Amendment to the US Constitution was added to ensure that the Federal Government, not the State Government, would not start or endorse a particular religion.

[Goblinmonger]

64. Let's not have too big a love fest

They came here to freely and publically exercise THEIR and ONLY THEIR religious beliefs. Hell, they even killed the Quakers for being heretics. The original settlers were pretty narrow minded themselves.

[NMMNG]

66. Aye Caramba, not this stuff again.

"America was founded as a Christian nation, yadda yadda yadda....."

Now, if you look at early American history you will learn that many of the Founding Fathers were not the rabid Christians that revisionist historians like to paint them, but deists. A good number of them had nothing good to say about Christianity, or even religion in general. In particular, they did not want religion and government mixing--they wanted a distinct separation of Church and State.


Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11: Written during the Administration of George Washington and signed into law by John Adams.
“The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”


Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own”

James Madison, Letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise"

James Madison, letter to Robert Walsh, March 2, 1819
"The Civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State."

Benjamin Franklin, The Writings of Benjamin Franklin: London, 1757 - 1775
"If we look back into history for the character of present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England, blamed persecution in the Roman church, but practiced it against the Puritans: these found it wrong in the Bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England."

Thomas Paine, From "Age of Reason":
"My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

IBID “Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself than this thing called Christianity”

http://www.deism.org/foundingfathers.htm




Thomas Jefferson:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."


James Madison:

"What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html


Deism was championed by Enlightenment thinkers such as Voltaire and some of the Founding Fathers of the United States. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin are among the most well-known of the American founding deists. There is debate as to whether George Washington was a deist or not.Thomas Paine published The Age of Reason, a treatise that popularized deism throughout America and Europe. Paine wrote that deism represented the application of reason to religion, finally settling problems that formerly were thought to be permanently controversial. Deists hoped to also settle religious questions permanently and scientifically by reason alone, without revelation.

The first six and four later presidents of the United States had strong deistic or allied beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[WritingIsMyReligion]

60. Hey, ass-backwards Missouri:

There's this thing--it's called the Constitution. It calls for religious freedom, and separation of church and state.

Remember it?

:grr::grr:

[JerseygirlCT]

65. Can you say "Establishment Clause?"

Geez, even Scalia and Alito might be forced to cave on this one, it's so blatant.

[nemo137]

67. Fuck that. Fuck that in all sorts of ways.

I'm not even kidding. I hope every Christian leader in the state says something along the lines of "thanks, but, you know, that's fucking wrong, seriously, that's just crazy-talk."

[FM Arouet666]

68. Missouri declares Stupidity to be the official State thought

The 'Show Me State"? As in show me how ignorant bible thumping conservatives propose unconstitutional legislation?

'Show Me the Stupidity' motto of the great state of Misery......... I am sure Matt 'Blunt', as in obtuse, dull, not particularly intelligent, loves the idea. Oops, a bit of ad homenem, so be it, my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[nemo137]

69. Hey, the old motto came from how stupid mizzerans are

i.e. you'd have to show them how to do things with a 2x4 upside the head. The more things change, huh?