The Art of Exposing Bigotry

[Boojatta]

It doesn't matter whether you are trying to expose bigotry against religion, bigotry against foreigners, or bigotry against people who eat peanut butter and centipede sandwiches in public parks. One simple method enables you to expose any kind of bigotry.

Study the following dialogue with care. Observe the Master cleverly exposing bigotry. Learn from the Master.

Bigot: "Would you support or oppose an immigration policy of keeping stupid people out?"

Master: "You are a bigot. Blonde Scientologists can be good citizens. Why do you want to exclude blonde Scientologists from this country? Lord Kelvin grossly underestimated the age of the Earth. He was wrong. So that immigration policy would have kept Lord Kelvin out."

Bigot: "Isn't there a difference between being wrong and being stupid? For example, isn't there a difference between buying lots of common shares in a fast food company shortly before someone plants a severed finger in the company's chili and mortgaging your home to buy lottery tickets?"

Master: "So, you assume that all blonde Scientologists mortgage their homes to buy lottery tickets and you assume that when scientists lose money on their investments it is always because somebody else committed an act of fraud that could not have been foreseen."

Bigot: "Aren't you making an assumption when you say that I assume all blonde Scientologists mortgage their homes to buy lottery tickets?"

Master: "Yes, I am assuming that bigotry is behind your incoherent and poorly constructed statements. Prove me wrong."

[Goblinmonger]

1. This is gonna be good

:popcorn:

[arwalden]

2. Move over... Make room... I want to sit with you!

You've got a good seat.

:popcorn:

[Goblinmonger]

3. Hell yeah, front row.

Did you bring any milk duds?

[Goblinmonger]

20. You know what?

This is kinda like you and I brought some friends to a foreign. We were really jazzed about it and hoped to talk to our friends about it. But it was clear after the movie that they didn't get it. I guess it's just you and me, alan. Think I should help people out with the plot or just move along?

[Boojatta]

21. It's a foreign film with subtitles and no picture!

Think I should help people out with the plot or just move along?

Is there a risk of disturbing other people in the theater? Is there some small issue that you can raise, some hint that will help people without telling them things that they would have preferred to figure out for themselves?

The original post stands on its own regardless of my opinions or interpretations. Currently, I feel little obligation to contribute much more to this thread.

[Goblinmonger]

22. Hmmmmm

The theater is full and the movie is reaching the end of exposition.

*cough*satire*cough*
*cough*juxtaposition*cough*
*cough*irony*cough*

[arwalden]

26. (Sigh)

:shrug:

[Boojatta]

27. Any basis for a discussion?

Could you translate the thoughts that motivate that sigh into English?

[hunter]

28. I'm still stuck on #12.

Until then

:popcorn:

[uppityperson]

4. .

Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing....How many is a brazillion?

[KitchenWitch]

5. Oh boy

this is a bonanza!

:popcorn:

[hunter]

6. Bite me.

I'm blonde.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

7. I'd comment if

I could figure out what the hell you just said.

[hunter]

8. Most people think blonde Scientologists are loons.

But you never know on DU, there's a lot of freaks under this tent.

:popcorn:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

9. I think scientologists are loons in general

I read recently they think that 9/11 happened because psychiatrists brainwashed the terrorists.

[Zenlitened]

10. I imagine a Scientologist who is sincere in his or her belief...

... would find your comments incredibly offensive.

I think scientologists are loons in general
Posted by TallahasseeGrannie

I read recently they think that 9/11 happened because psychiatrists brainwashed the terrorists.

[hunter]

12. We will wait patiently for Boojatta to explain the original post.

Or not.

:evilgrin:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Well I've already been called to task

rightfully for making fun of Scientologists, and this on a day when I chided someone else for making fun of my religion. I think my kharma ran over my dogma and then bit me in the ass.

Now, the OP was written in such a way that it reminded me way too much of Logic 101, and I am not very good at that.

So I hope he comes back and explains it.

We are all bigots. Every one of us. We're all racists. It is a human characteristic. We learn by grouping things in ways we can understand. Some of us just have trouble letting go of what we have come up with.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. You are right, it was offensive

and I apologize.

For the "loon" comment. I think it. I shouldn't have said it. I probably shouldn't think it.

I have a bit of an axe to grind with them about their treatment of psychiatrists and their discouraging people from seeking help because it saved my life at one time.

The quote I cite is from the Wikipedia 9/11 conspiracy theory compilation. Very interesting.

But I guess scientologists are no loonier than zen buddhists...or old lady Christians. So again mea culpa. Miserere me.

[Zenlitened]

19. "I shouldn't have said it. I probably shouldn't think it."

Is that true, though? What if they really are putting people in harm's way by discouraging valid psychiatric treatment? Should you keep silent? Should you even go so far as to warp your own opinion about what they're doing, just because they're sincere in their beliefs?

I hope you see the parallels here, between the way you view and discuss Scientology and how others view and discuss Christianity and religion in general. Criticism does not automatically equal bigotry, although phrasing matters, of course. (I can well imagine that a post stating, in seriousness "Christians are loons" would be deleted pretty quickly.) But perhaps in the future you'll be a little less ready to jump in and cry "foul" when someone expresses dismay over the state of religion in America today?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

23. You can put away the wet noodle now

I've apologized twice.

[Zenlitened]

24. Oh. I didn't realize what you meant was...

... "shut up."

:eyes:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. No, if I meant shut up

that's what I would have said.

Peace..

tg

[trotsky]

17. "I think Christians are loons in general."

What's the difference between that sentence, and the one you said?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. Not a damned thing.

And it's been said here plenty, believe me. So I'm in good company with my bigotry, Trots.

[greyl]

11. Is this seat taken? nt

[happyslug]

13. This is bad, if you want to convert NEVER insult the person being Convert

I hope you want to convert the Bigot from being a Bigot? I hope that is what you want to do? That is convert the bigot to think in right terms? If your gaol is to fell superior to the Bigot then this argument is a good argument, it shows the bigot's bigotry and thus your "Superior" attitude to that bigotry, but if you want to end bigotry, this is NOT the way to do it.

I always like citing St Paul in the Acts of the Apostles, he NEVER insults someone's belief system, he tries to use that belief system to convert the convert to what Jesus taught (And causes all types of confusion today, for people take St Paul as if someone was talking to fellow Christians NOT Pagans).

Thus if you want to end bigotry you have to try to show how the bigot's position is wrong without the bigot getting defensive about his position. IT is hard to do such fine work, but the best missionaries in History always did so (Even the "Missionaries" of Marxism in the 1800 and early 1900s).

Thus the better approach is NOT to demand proof from the Bigot or to insult him, but to show that his position is wrong based on other beliefs of the Bigot. Let me explain by changing the above "debate" a little differently"

Bigot: "Would you support or oppose an immigration policy of keeping stupid people out?"

Answer: "How would you define "Stupid People"?

Bigot: "By lack of Education, what else."

Answer: "Thus you support permitting in people with PhD? even if they are from Africa?

Bigot: "NO, I want only Smart, White people into the Country?

Answer: "So given a choice between an uneducated Blond with three kids that will end up on Welfare and a Black Ph.D you would prefer the person on welfare?

Bigot: "No, I want educated Whites into the Country."

Answer "Sorry, but Educated Whites are staying in Western Europe or if Eastern Europe Staying in Eastern Europe or going to Western Europe, thus when it comes to educated immigrants we have to look to the Third World."
Thus the issue do you prefer un-educated Whites or Educated Blacks?

At this point the Bigot will walk away either in a huff or stewing, for you have burst his bubble BUT HAVE NOT INSULTED HIM. You have NOT put him into a position that he has to defend his position at all costs, instead forced him to think of the consequences of his question. Does he want White or educated Immigrants? Going into the Argument he believed you could have BOTH White and Educated, but by the above you have shown him that is NOT possible. He thus has to chose one or the other, but you are not attacking directly his premise that we should only permit in "Smart" immigrants (Which by the Bigot's definition means "White").

My point is being smug because you are right will NOT convince people that they are wrong, in fact may make them even more rigid in their beliefs (As they have to defend the Belief as they defend themselves in the debate). Never put someone you are hoping to convert in a position where he has to defend himself at the same time you are attacking his belief. In such situations the two become one and the person you are hoping to convert become even more rigid in his beliefs.

Hopefully that is what you are trying to do, i.e. convince people to STOP thinking like Bigots, but if you just want to feel smug, continue with the above "debate" for while it will make you feel superior it will do little to convince most Americans to think along non-bigotry lines.

[hunter]

16. Too complicated.

I say you pull the carpet out from under 'em right away, before they hurt themselves.

Bigot: "Would you support or oppose an immigration policy of keeping stupid people out?"

Master: "You know, they have this point system in Canada and it looks like my wife and I could move there anytime we want. Heck, we could even buy our way into Canada. If you have enough money the Canadians will simply let you in, points or no points. There are some absolutely gorgeous properties in British Columbia. But Mexico is much warmer..."

Bigot: "Uhhhh, ummmmm."

My mom is a master of this. I wish I was, but in the real world I'm pretty slow on my feet. Before a bigot even has a chance to speak, my mom will undercut them. I don't even think she does it consciously, it's almost a zen telepathy kind of thing with her.

Bigot: (Thinking about expressing his support of some "Protection of Marriage" act...)

My mom: "You know, I met the sweetest guy this weekend. He's a biologist and his husband is a freelance photographer in Hollywood."

Bigot: "Uhhhh, ummmmm."

[Boojatta]

29. The next time any DUer gets angry enough to kick me, he or she should

kick this thread. Should I post a PM that Strong Atheist sent to me or would that be a breach of confidentiality?

[Proud_Democratt]

30. It's confidential and private.

If you dislike the message or messenger, click "ignore".......that's my 2 cents.

[Boojatta]

31. Okay, that's probably good advice. However, if a DU Mod or DU Admin

wants me to forward the PM to a DU Mod or DU Admin, then would I be able to forward it without breaching that confidentiality rule?

[Proud_Democratt]

32. You might want to refer to the board rules.