Are you afraid of God?

[franksumatra]

Good God-fearing Americans. What does that mean? Are we SUPPOSED to be afraid of God? You'd think so by the rhetoric.

Is it God that Christians fear, or seperation from God, ala, hell? Is it God's wrath that they fear? Earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes?

Does the biblical God actually say that we are supposed to fear him?

If you are not necessarily afraid of God, does this make you a bad Christian?

Are we supposed to love, or fear God, or both? I can't keep up.

Is fear the main motivation behind worship of the modern day American God?

[xchrom]

1. i must say, being a christian, i have never, ever

heard a good reason for that ''fear god'' thing.
i mostly do not believe in the ''old testament'' god -- so it has no effect on me.

christians are far too interested in retribution for their own good anymore -- so for me it loses meaning.

just something to threaten with.

[thinkingwoman]

13. the "old testament" god...

is the god of the Jews, but, I'm not afraid of him and I'm Jewish.

I've never yet met a Jew that was.

[Timebound]

2. From what I understand...

...we're supposed to fear God because he is all-powerful, and He's the one that created us. He can pour out his wrath upon us any second, but he shows us mercy instead.

"She who fears the Lord is blessed." (I read this somewhere, could be in the bible, maybe)

So yeah, its fear mixed in with gratitude. He COULD, but he hasn't yet. He's given us a way out through Jesus cause he loves us.

Old Testament = fear God
New Testament = love God

That's what I think. But I'm not here to convert you, as I'm not very religious, so I could be completely wrong.

EDIT: You know what, after reading this again, the 'you should fear God' arguement really doesn't make sense...

[The Straight Story]

3. I would venture a guess

it is similar to our ideals of parenthood - you love your parents, but also fear what they can do to you (send you to your room, take away that game boy, et al).

Perhaps we can same the same of our government - we fear their power while loving our form of government. That fear of their power is natural, for it is the government which can swoop down and take what you have, imprison you, et al.

Fear perhaps is not always the best used word, some might say you respect that power. Fear and Love are indeed often intertwined in these things and is not so odd.

[opihimoimoi]

4. Its all about CONTROL and how to take advantage of the GOOD

People out there....

THER IS SUCKER BORN EVERY NANO SECOND

[Ando]

26. good analogy

The comparison to parenthood is a good one. As many others have posted, it's about respect, not fear. At least not fear in the sense that many people in this thread use. Christianity isn't based on fear, it's based on Lordship and divinity. See post #20.

[sarcasmo]

5. As an Atheist, I have no fear of a mythological creature.

[China_cat]

17. Amen

O8) :crazy:

[jdots]

6. I sure don't fear God

but i don't read many best sellers.The fear of fear is the ignorant posturing that keeps people afraid of God.

[RebelOne]

7. I can't fear something I don't believe in. n/t

[indigobusiness]

8. Fearing God

snip

This is a subject that isn't preached about much in our day, but it is still vital to the Christian's faith. We desperately need to recover a sense of awe and reverence for God in our day. We must begin to view Him in the infinite majesty that belongs to Him who is the Creator and Supreme Sovereign of the universe. There is an infinite gap in worth and dignity between God, the Creator, and man, the creature. The fear of God is a heartfelt recognition of this gap.

snip

As we spend time in the Word of God, we will learn to fear Him. It is important to emphasize, however, that we must read ALL of God's Word. Some read only those portions that will reveal God's love and mercy, and have no "fear of the Lord". Others emphasize the "fire, hell and brimstone" passages, and know nothing of God's everlasting loving kindness and love. The one develops an attitude of permissiveness that belittles God's holiness and justice. The other develops a psychosis of terror that forgets God's grace and compassion.

To "fear God" is an instruction to stand in awe of God.

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/topical/fearing_god.htm

[jus_the_facts]

9. More should be concerned with the here and now....not the what if....

.....or when I'm DEAD....sigh...as the sayin' says....if if's and but's were candy and nuts....it'd be X-mas every fuckin' day..nothing about the POOF theology interests me in the slightest.... :nopity:

[rooboy]

10. Yes - he was in a frightful mood this morning. n/t

[booksenkatz]

11. Maybe that's why I left Christianity when I was in college

All of my life I worked soooooo hard trying to grasp Christianity. But I was finding it impossible to adore and worship someone of whom I was supposed to be in mortal terror, who could smite me at any moment. I busted my butt to be a good girl, but it sounded like it was never going to be good enough to please Scary God. Whilst trying to be a good, perfect little doormat for the first 2 decades of my life, I naturally got into an abusive relationship for 2 of my college years. Suddenly, I grew up: I didn't want to have to do the "love the one you fear" thing anymore with man or god. I'm an agnostic now, although I am very spiritual because I do feel there is a connection between people, and I still feel like there may be "a creator" to which I simply am unable to connect, which I simply don't understand.

At any rate, my soul is much, much calmer now that the love/fear wrestling match is no longer a part of my spiritual life. (Luckily, I found a wonderful, loving, non-judgmental hubby.)

[Christian dem]

12. It isn't about fearing God

since, as someone else said, accepting Jesus is the road to salvation. In the bible, there a lots of covenents between man and God (like not destroying the world by a flood again). God is supposed to be about love and trust.

Those that use the fear of God technique pull a lot from the Old Testament and misrepresent what Jesus taught.

I guess the only thing "to fear" is where you end up on Judgement Day.

This is only my opinion. I'm a Christian, but not an expert.

[papau]

22. another Christian, but not an expert - me - agrees :-)

:-)

[BiggJawn]

14. Oh, my, yes, he can squash us like a bug any second!

Just like the "Monty Python Foot"...<sarcasm>

God: The ORIGINAL Abusive Father.

It's not bad enough they had to create a mythical being, but they had to give Him a pissy attitude, too.

[izzie]

15. No he was always a good God to me.

--

[AG78]

16. Me? No

But I'm an atheist.

My lack of fear was my first step towards atheism. I'm not saying that a lack of the fear of God always leads to atheism. Just saying that's my story.

To me, the fear is about control. If you don't fear God, you can't be under the control of the church(or whatever religious building you may attend). Religion is a personal thing.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to pray to something that they fear, but then I have plenty of other questions about the logic of fear based religion.

[kiki]

18. Nuclear weapons

There used to be very real reasons to fear the God of the old testament - not only was He constantly threatening to start plagues, raze whole villages to the ground etc, He used to actually do it. Genuine "fear of God" is ultimately fear that God will destroy the world.

Then we split the atom and said, "two can play at that game". Imagine a hostage, knowing that his captor needs him alive, suddenly holding a gun to his own head. "I'll do it, motherf*cker! I'm crazy enough!"

If God is dead or dying, our newfound ability to destroy all life (negating or lessening the psychological impact of His ability to do so) has to have been one of the biggest nails in his coffin.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Sometimes I scare myself

but it doesn't last long.

[Ando]

20. The Fear of God

What a grave error it would be to imagine that the new covenant, in contrast to the old, has replaced the fear of God with the love of God. That would be as contrary to the New Testament understanding of the proper response to the God of holiness and mercy as it would be contrary to the Old Testament understanding. Before you hastily assume that there is a tension between fear of God and love of God—or between fear of God and faith in God—meditate upon the truth of Psalm 130:3-4, "If you, O Lord, kept a record of sins, O Lord, who could stand? But with you there is forgiveness; therefore you are feared."

Yes, praise God, the word of 1 John 4:18 is true: "Perfect love drives out fear." But it is the dread of eternal torment that love drives out, not reverence and adoration before God's majesty. In the song of Moses and of the Lamb, we hear, "Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy" (Rev. 15:4).

And so there is good reason why the NIV chooses to use the word "reverence" to speak of that fear that is a godly fear, a proper fear. That fear is the rich convergence of awe in the presence of the eternal God—the Creator of the universe, the holy Lawgiver, the righteous Judge, and the merciful Savior—and a consciousness of being in his presence every moment. There is the convergence of awe, reverence, adoration, honor, worship, confidence, thankfulness, love, and, yes, fear.

This problem is more a problem of translation and context than a straightforward theological one. Americans know only one definition for fear, just as we have only one word for Love. Hebrew has five words for love, and there are many types of fear. In the case of fear of the Lord, the fear is reverence and awe, it is an aknowledgment of his Lordship. It is the same fear that would be used with a benevolent King.

20 Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning."

That passage is from Exodus 20, you can clearly see that there are multiple meanings for fear, as two are displayed in one verse.

[Igel]

37. Makes sense, is consistent, and

undermines the complaining.

So, of course there are no responses (and no evidence that it's even visible on most computer screens!).

[Telly Savalas]

45. Fear = "to have a reverential awe of"

According to the online Merriam-Webster:

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=fear&x=0&y=0

Definition 3.

In fact they use <fear God> to illustrate this usage in context.

[lectrobyte]

21. No problem with God. Its this asshole ground crew that's the problem.

[Az]

23. No, but then

I don't believe any gods exist. Gods. Each person that believes in a god or gods has their own sense of what it is. Different denominations create their own impression of them. Some create a loving god. Others create a vengeful god. Part of the problem in defining god for believers is he is not here showing himself or representing himself to us. Thus each person is left to create an image to fill that space.

I would suggest that variety of ideas about god are to varied to proclaim fear as the primary motivation behind the worship of the modern American concept of God. Fear is certainly a factor for some (and not always in the same way). But some worship God because of their own contemplative reasons and others worship because they have no other idea what to do. Some worship God out of fear of the unknown and some worship out of fear of damnation. To many gods and too many reasons to site just one as the primary.

[Dob Bole]

24. "Fear" in the Bible vs. "fear" in American Civic Religion

When it says to fear God in the Bible, the word translated into fear in English actually just means respect. It does not mean to be scared of God.

On the other hand, the fascist religion of many Americans relies solely on fear. It is interesting to note that most countries have a larger religious left, and we have a big imperialist religious right. When the shoe was on the other foot and we were a developing country, it was not so.

[McKenzie]

25. might be interesting to ask this question of aboriginal peoples

they might respond that they do fear offending a deity, or deities for that matter.

So WTF am I saying here? Simply this. Aboriginal peoples were here long before Christianity showed up on the belief system radar so the issue is whether their belief system(s) is/are negated by the emergence of Christianity. Rhetorical point really because it is self-evident that there were belief systems in existence loooong before Christianity muscled in. They got along just dandy without the bible, Old/New Testaments etc. Christianity is a usurper by definition; or more accurately an assimilator of selected bits of pre-existing faiths.

I'm not knocking Christians per se BTW. Just pointing out that it's a tad rude of Christians to think their faith is the only valid belief sytem in existence. It is certainly a relatively recent addition to the long list of such systems.

[Stunster]

27. God was afraid of us

in Gethsemani and at Golgotha.

God also told us to call the first person of the Blessed Trinity, 'daddy', and to regard the second person as 'servant', and to visualize the third as a dove.

Now that's scary!

[Az]

28. Well he certainly was concerned about our diet in the beginning n/t

[Stunster]

29. A common form of atheistic argumentation goes like this

1. I don't understand the Bible.

2. I must admit I'm not overly familiar with modern Biblical scholarship.

3. Some people who are familiar with modern Biblical scholarship claim that they can make good sense out of it, but I just don't get it.

4. Therefore the Bible is a load of rubbish.

This is a bad argument.

[Az]

30. 2 points

2. Certainly would be a bad argument if most atheists used it.

2. Most atheists don't claim to not understand the bible.

[Stunster]

31. One point: you'd be surprised (n/t)

[PsychoDad]

32. Not "fear"

No, I am not afraid of my creator, but I am constatly in awe of it's majesty and power when I look into the night sky, the eyes of a child or remember in prayer or meditation my Lord and sustainer.

I think the word "fear" is better translated as "in awe of".

Although I do not fear my Lord, I am in fear of displeasing God, just as a child is fearful of displeasing his parent.

As for worship, the motivation shouldn't be fear, but Love.

Salaams

[catbert836]

33. I'm not afraid of God

But I am afraid of people who do fear Him. ;)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

34. No.

How can one be afraid of their Beloved? That which is closer to you than your jugular vein?

[Selwynn]

35. It's supposed to mean "reverence" not "scared."

But no, I don't "fear" God.

[Telly Savalas]

46. So do you mean...

you're not scared of God or that you don't hold reverence toward God?

[MemphisTiger]

36. Since when was God a modern day "AMERICAN" God?

I didn't know He had a nationality

[moobu2]

38. There's no reason to fear something that doesn't exist, is there?

It's like asking a grown adult if they fear the boogie man under their beds at night. You might get a creepy feeling when the thought occurs to you (when your alone at night) but after you rationalize the thoughts, the fear usually subsides.

Fear of God was/and still is a way for (some) religious leaders to gain power in the community, nothing more, that's it's purpose. Most people in the past couple of thousand years were to ignorant to understand things that occurred in their daily lives so it was fairly easy for them to be manipulated with scare tactics.

[More Than A Feeling]

39. I used to be afraid of God ( back when I thought God did not exist)

Perhaps I had better explain. I was afraid of the stereotype of God that I had. The kind of God who would bless the crusades and dropkick me into hell if i put one foot wrong. I could not abide that kind of authoriatarianism, so I chose not to believe. In fact, it made me a very militant atheist.

Actually reading the Bible caused me to reassess my ideas about God. If I were to describe myself as "God fearing", I would probably mean that I was in awe of him/her/it, but that is not how I think of God normally.

[SlackJawedYokel]

40. I'm afraid of some people who say they believe in gods.

But since, to the best of my knowledge, no gods have interfered in my life or acted upon me in any discernible manner it would be kinda hard to hate them for any rational reason.

Good God-fearing Americans. What does that mean? Are we SUPPOSED to be afraid of God? You'd think so by the rhetoric.
Well sure.
Yahweh was a Jewish war god first, you know.
No point in having a war god no one is afraid of.

Is it God that Christians fear, or seperation from God, ala, hell? Is it God's wrath that they fear? Earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes?
Sure.
All of the above... none of the above.
Depends on which Christian you talk to.

Does the biblical God actually say that we are supposed to fear him?
Given that there are at least 3 discernibly different OT versions of Yahweh, probably.
Yahweh evolved along with the Jewish people and then the Greeks eventually devolving(in the sense that he went from a singular god to a tripartite, pantheonic substitute, god) for the Christians.

If you are not necessarily afraid of God, does this make you a bad Christian?
Ever heard of the "Not a True Scotsman" logical fallacy?
I relabeled it the "Not a True Christian" for this kind of discussion.

Are we supposed to love, or fear God, or both? I can't keep up.
According to most Christians, you're supposed to love him like a domineering, but caring father-figure and fear him for the same reason.

Is fear the main motivation behind worship of the modern day American God?
"Modern"?
Ha... how about fearing *all* of the historic versions of the Judeo-christian god?

Cletus

[davidinalameda]

41. which one

all of them or just one or two

yes, I'm a polytheist

[Theres-a]

42. I'm not afraid of God

But I am afraid of people who tell me I should be afraid of God!

[meow2u3]

43. The religious definition of fear

is not dread. It's a respect for God like a kid respects his or her dad. With that definition in mind, I'm not afraid of God, but I do "fear" (respect) Him.

[Zhade]

44. The only one who ever says to fear any god...

...is man, who creates the god to explain the universe.

You show me one single instance of humanity being given a reason to fear any god that doesn't originate from a human's writings/sayings, and you'll have a unique occurrence.

To my knowledge, no god has ever announced to humanity "fear me" with its own voice.

[sam sarrha]

47. Damn !! I thought god was on our side !!

[Dervill Crow]

48. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

I think this is in Proverbs and as I understand it, it means that we should approach God with reverence and awe.

[sam sarrha]

49. but Jesus is God, and teaches redemption.. well actually the debate over

a Greek translation of a diphthong that created the rift between the eastern orthodox and the roman Church which is still is still going on..in the Protestant community.

the diphthong can be translated either... 'Is' or 'As'

the reference was to Jesus. I dont remember who they were translating.. they probably dont even know. but the assumption is that Jesus "Is" the manifestation of god. but the difference between the Father and the Son is Remarkable !!

one is a savior and one so jealous and judgmental as to burn transgressors in a lake of Fire for EVER.... which sounds more like a Demons activity than the Most Omnipotent and enlightened creator and manager of the Universe itself.

I was lucky to be born right brain dominant, so that none of the religious dogma made any sense to me, i just couldn't see the connections. and my grandfather raised me and he would always try to set me up and fool or con me.. "get me into something" to play the 'rube'. from the time i was 5 years old, so when they started telling me about this god that was everywhere and would send me to hell to burn for ever unless i agreed to have his son same me..and there was money involved cause they passed the plate in church, ..well, i figured i was just being conned. and the game uninvolved me never letting on that i knew. i saw what they did to those who didn't show the proper attention to detail, they humiliated them in Church and forced them to "Pray Thru". .. the threats and torment, would not cease till one went belly up like a frightened puppy and cried and wailed and begged and cried to Jesus for forgiveness. scared the crap out of me,

so i guess i was definitely afraid as a child of Christians in general, but god was just a con job.

I have since come to realize thru the Wheel of Life that there are gods with unconceivable powers that live unimaginable long lives of bliss.. in the god realm. however, that realm resides also in Samsara along all the other realms with there particular beings. the gods do not process the powers to free themselves from samsara thus they can not save us either. their suffering comes at the end of their lives and is in proportion to their powers.

[Dervill Crow]

50. Interesting!

I'm lucky enough not to have been subjected to church as a child, and I quit believing in the divinity of Jesus at the same time I caught on that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were fictional characters. I have read the Bible through several times as an adult and wasn't it Paul who said Christians were under a new covenant? Jesus did say that he came not to end the law but to fulfill it. I think Christians do Jesus a disservice when they consider the God of the old testament irrelevant. But that's just my opinion.