The response I gave to a man who believes God sanctioned the death penalty

[More Than A Feeling]

Standing in line for the inaugural parade, I found myself next to a man who through his words I took to be hardcore fundamentalist/evangelical (or at least a biblical literalist) He wanted to talk about abortion, and how God's judgment was on this nation. He said we should promote a culture of life.

I asked him if that included abolishing the death penalty. He told me that God had instituted the death penalty when he flooded the world, sparing only Noah.

I reminded him that God repented, sealing his promise never to do that again in the rainbow.

The man replied: "Look at the tsunamis"

I got right up in his face and said "Are you saying God broke his promise? Are you calling God a liar?"

He had nothing to say to that.

[trotsky]

1. Noah & the death penalty

Just realized - how many unborn babies died when God flooded the world and killed pregnant women?

[texastoast]

2. And killed all the sperm and eggs

that might have become babies. Oh, woe.

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. Naw. He wouldn't do that.

He waited for a moment when nobody in the entire world was pregnant. Then he killed them all.

[quadzilla490]

3. The 'Noah's flood' story is just that, a story.

Geologists have been all over all 7 continents and have not found any evidence of a worldwide flood. You people who still believe this stuff should watch more discovery and less Jerry Falwell.

[ashmanonar]

7. while i don't think that an ancient flood is proof of god

there IS proof of an ancient flood (a layer of sand in great britain, etc). every culture in the WORLD has an ancient story of destruction and rebirth, and most involved a flood event {the native americans, chinese, indians, etc}...(in fact, most probably caused by a meteor/comet strike into the ocean, hence a tsunami)

read Uriel's Machine, by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. it's a pretty well factually-based book about the ancient origins of many religious traditions and freemasonry. it'll give you a new opinion on the ancient past.

[Solon]

9. Actually that would be a logical fallacy to say that...

I don't disagree with you entirely, but remember, most of the planet has suffered floods since the Seas and Oceans first formed. It is not surprising that worldwide, many disparate cultures would form the idea that there were devastating floods that could or did nearly wipe them out. Also, just because there is physical evidence does not mean it is from "The Flood", more likely local floods. For example, I live in the middle of the United States, and go down the highway far enough, in most directions, and you see the limestone they cut to build the roads. You can walk straight up to these and see fossils of hundreds of sea creatures from many different eras. Is the proof of the "Flood", no, its proof that this area used to be a part of an inland sea, and a sizable one at that.

Most likely the Biblical story does chronicle a flood, just not a world wide one, most likely one that was devastating on the locality. Maybe from one of the large seas in the area that was, geographically speaking, filled in recently by the Mediterranean. This makes much more sense (plus there is evidence of this), because the question you have to ask, if the story in the Bible is to be taken 100% literally, is, where did all the water go?

You have to remember that our Earth is constantly changing and will countinue to change. Given enough time, these changes will be written down by us, or were, due to that culture's experience and beliefs. The Mediterranean itself used to be a mostly empty basin, so were most of the large seas in Asia. The Sahara used to be a swamp, or brackish sea, all this relatively recently, and within the human timeframe, so would it be surprising that our ancestors would write down such events withing there own cultural confines?

[ashmanonar]

10. fair enough, you're right in some respects.

i'm just saying what the book says. in Uriel's Machine, there is explanation for a "flood" that is at least continent wide due to a comet/meteor strike, (tsunamis and tidal surges). a'course that's not the only thing the book says, there's much more, but it does explain why comets (and tsunamis) are seen as an omen of terrible import in many places across the world. (something else not generally talked about is that we really don't know just how skilled ancient people were at various sciences (astronomy, architecture, navigation, cartography, etc))
something else is that a comet or small meteor could create a horrible tsunami, on par with something created by an earthquake. even a small one could wreck an area, considering population density at ocean shores.

with regards to your question "where did all the water go?", remember that there are accurate maps of antarctica (beneath the ice cap) that are rather old, so one must ask just how old the ice actually is there. just a theory, but a fairly good one.

[More Than A Feeling]

8. I have found that it saves time to accept their premise

if they believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. Trying to argue against them from that angle would completely discredit me and change the argument to a place I do not have the knowledge and interest to go.

For my money, whether the stories in the Bible actually literally happened is irrelevant. What interests me is two things: "What did the stories (whether they happened that way or not) mean to those who wrote them, and what do they mean for me today?"

[catbert836]

12. The Great Flood

There is evidence of a flood that once covered Biblical lands (aka the Middle East), which the authors of Genesis certainly thought was the whole world.

[RUDUing2]

13. some info for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28mythology%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_%28prehistoric%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood

[zbdent]

4. I bet that this person would also be citing the New Testament

which, in some ways, negates parts of the Old Testament.

Yeah, the old "eye for an eye" retribution - wasn't that somewhat dulled by Jesus' "turn the other cheek"?

If he goes "Old Testament" on you, point out that it is very unChristian - Jesus was New Testament.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

5. Amen to that Friend!

Anytime I run into a fundie dicussing the Old Testament I have to ask how that fits with being a Christian. The birth of Christ is to symbolize a new life and a new way of seeing things. His way.......not the way these SOB's have twisted it to fit their persoanl agendas.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. Ha ha ha

great answer!

[phylny]

14. Please correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will!)

but I believe that God's promise was that he would never again flood the ENTIRE earth as he did with Noah. I don't think he never promised that there wouldn't be ANY floods.

Thoughts?

[MemphisTiger]

15. God doesn't need to institute his wrath like that on all of us sinners

anymore...He sent Jesus, his son, do die on the cross and wipe away our sins.