Who Benefited Most

[erpowers]

This is a question that was asked on the sports talk show the Sports Bash. So who in baseball do member of DU think benefited most from the use of steroids? Lets include guys like Roger Clemensin this too in that Jose Conseco mentioned him an Palmerio in his book and now Palmerio tested positive for steriods.

[matcom]

1. Giambi

roid freak

[SeanQuinn]

2. I think Sheffield did.

I mean, a new scenery, a new team, a new million-dollar contract.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

3. Most of the Yankees sluggers

:popcorn:

[rinsd]

4. And so it begins.....(nt)

[OneBlueSky]

5. um . . . I believe that only Giambi and Sheffield have ever . . .

been linked to steroids . . . and there's no evidence that either is still using . . . if they were, they'd be caught the same way Palmiero was . . .

[DaveinMD]

6. David Ortiz

and Trott Nixon.

[matcom]

7. lol

BOTH PROVEN to be drug-free

typical Yankees fan. divert attention off of Giambi who we all KNOW is a roid-freak

[DaveinMD]

9. Giambi

is no longer on roids. He's still under supervision of doctors who monitor everything in his body because of the tumor he had last year. Nice try.

[matcom]

10. nice try?

point me in ONE direction where Ortiz is accused

YOUR boy is NOW clean and that makes it OK???

:eyes:

you probably voted for Rudy too :eyes:

[DaveinMD]

11. Now that is over the line

I have not and will not vote for Republican ever in my life. My family considers Rudy to be a fascist. I didn't even vote for Connie Morella. Way over the line. So far over the line, you can't see the line.

[matcom]

13. your right. my apologies.

i am sorry.

now...

in light of what happened today, how can you REALLY stick up for Giambi and ACCUSE Ortiz of something you KNOW has never been charged?

peace with an acknowledgment?

[DaveinMD]

14. I just brought up Ortiz

because people are making allegations today against Giambi just because of Palmiero when they don't understand the level of oversight that Giambi is under because of his medical conditions.

[matcom]

16. Giambi is a KNOWN user

YOU brought up Ortiz and Nixon without ANY proof

as far as i'm concerned, Giambi's only "condition" is his nostrils which are great for snorting COKE

(former coke-head making that statement btw)

i was nice to you. that isn't likely to last

[DaveinMD]

17. known past user

he admitted as such and is clean now. He had a parasite and tumor last year. He is still under treatment for that tumor. That is a fact. You can ignore that fact if you like, but it is still a fact.

[matcom]

18. and my wife had Stage 4 Cancer 7 years ago

she isn't on any drugs now.

NOT an excuse to be 'using'

on edit: how far back should we ERASE his records? you tell me

sorry

[DaveinMD]

19. he's not using

that's the point. He's being treated for tumors and is under strict medical care. They monitor everything he puts into his body. I hope your wife is okay.

[matcom]

20. she is and thanks

now address my edit

AND the fact you accuse Ortiz AND Nixon of what your boy did without ANY PROOF!

[DaveinMD]

21. I don't know the answer to that question

How far do we go back on any of these guys. The use of this drug has been so rampant is so hard to tell who was and who isn't. Probably more than half of the league and more pitchers than most believe. I have no doubt that Clemens was a roider for example.

But I do know that Giambi is clean now.

[HuckleB]

22. We can't assume anyone is clean in this day and age.

New drug tests try to keep up with athletes
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2005/05/10/new_drug_tests_try_to_keep_up_with_athletes/

It's almost impossible for testing to keep up with the cheating side of the ledger.

[DaveinMD]

23. Giambi

is under very close medical condition because of the tumor he is still treated for. It would be very hard for him to roid right now.

[HuckleB]

26. Ah, but that's only one possibility among many.

[DaveinMD]

27. I agree

but its also naive to think no one else on other teams is doing so. For instance, Brett Boone's career ended as soon as testing began.

[HuckleB]

29. No doubt about it.

Everyone at Safeco talked about how Boone "shrank" between the 2003 and 2004 seasons. The difference was stunning. He's probably an "oversized" example, but I doubt he and the other "knowns" were alone.

[DaveinMD]

30. I think

its over half of the league. That's why guys like Griffey and A-Rod are so special. They had this natural power from the time they came up.

[matcom]

24. bullshit

and i STILL want an apology for accusing Ortiz and Trot

INNOCENT until PROVEN

Giambi is PROVEN as is Raffy

David and Trot are NOT :grr:

[HuckleB]

28. I didn't accuse anyone of anything.

But I don't think it's bullshit to say that one can't assume that any athlete is definitively "clean." There's too much water under the bridge to pretend otherwise.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

:rofl:

Giambi. Sheffield.

:rofl:

[DaveinMD]

25. if you think

no Sox have roided you are quite naive. That would make them the only team in baseball.

[WilliamPitt]

8. The owners and the networks

Baseball surged back into prominence in no small part because of the power numbers. The McGuire/Sosa battle singlehandedly put baseball back under the big lights. The owners started raking in cash from raised attendance and merchandising, and so they didn't deal with the steroids that were bringing all this power and attention to the game. The networks enjoyed higher ratings and ad revenues, and likewise ignored the issue.

[nickgutierrez]

31. I don't think the power spike is singularly attributable to steroids.

If that was the case, you would think that we would have started to see historically significant power numbers starting in the late '80s and early '90s, not immediately after the '94 strike. I guess the argument could be made that half the players in the major leagues took the time while the strike was going on to juice up and gain a bunch of muscle, but nobody mentioned this when players came back in '95, and you would think people would notice. (I was 11 at the time, so I probably wouldn't have noticed, but you catch my drift).

For what it's worth, we first started seeing power numbers of potentially historical significance in 1994 - Matt Williams (I believe) was chasing 61, and a couple of teams were tearing the cover off of the ball (Cleveland and Baltimore especially, if memory serves. I'm doing this strictly off of what I remember from 1994, so I could be wildly off base).

Maybe they changed the ball, maybe they started building smaller ballparks, maybe they found good legal supplementation (creatine, for instance, is probably as playing as big a role as steroids in the current era of power hitters IMO), maybe we know more about staying healthy and proper nutrition, and maybe some of these guys are juicing.

More likely, it's a combination of everything I mentioned above, and more.

Who benefitted? Everybody did. The owners got fans back from the strike, the networks got a bigger audience and thus more ad revenue, the players got more money, and the fans got, and continue to receive, quite a show.

[dad]

32. You must not remember the late 80s well

Remember when everyone was talking about the "juiced ball" around circa 1987 or so? That was around the beginning of the time when roids became rampant in the league.
Currently, Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa are obvious users. Someone mentioned Boone - there's another gimme. Also off the beaten path a little bit, there are tons more lesser juicers. Take a look at Benito Santiago...

[nickgutierrez]

33. I don't remember those days very well...

Because I was about three years old during the 1987 season. But looking back at those seasons, while '87 looked like a decent power year, the 1988 AL had three guys with over 30 HR, and the NL had two. In '89, there were five in the NL and AL alike. Those are decent power numbers, but it just isn't the same as what we're seeing now.

If those numbers are due to rampant steroid use too, then why are the numbers over the past ten seasons that much bigger?

[dad]

36. If those numbers are due to rampant steroid use too, then why are the num

More guys are on steroids now, and almost the entire league has basically scrapped their stadiums for more hitter friendly parks. How many baseball stadiums out there currently in use existed before 1990? Not too damn many. How many of the replacement stadiums are more hitter-friendly than their precedcessors? Think about it.

[jakefrep]

35. I agree with this...

...Smaller (more offense-friendly) ballparks, crappy pitching created by expansion, probably had as much to do, perhaps even more, with increased offense as steroids. It's impossible to isolate exactly what, if any, role "performance-enhancing" drug use had in this.

[HuckleB]

15. Depends on the frame of reference.

Giambi may never have been a star without them. Neither, perhaps, would Sammy Sosa. But neither McGwire or Bonds likely would have held the single season home run record. Interestingly, without them, Bonds going to the HOF would have been a no brainer without any concern from the fans.

[Ron Mexico]

34. Either Sosa or Bonds.

And I hate them both.