I wonder if straight people know the kind of bullying that gay people face in school

[La Lioness Priyanka]

While i am not straight, i was gender conforming in school. i went to a very exclusive private school and had not been teased or really witnessed teasing.

Most of my friends are gay and even then I am not sure i would have understood the full effects of teasing/bullying in school had it not been for Lisa. I think it really takes knowing a person very intimately (or ofcourse being that person) to understand what bullying in an American school really looks like.

From the responses of straight people, on the other thread about teasing, I am left wondering if most straight people just really dont know what happens to some gay kids in school.

The extent and intensity of physical and verbal abuse by peers that goes under the cutesy name "teasing". The long lasting deleterious effects that this abuse can have.

If any of you would like to share your stories here (assuming that its not too painful)just so that people have an idea of what this teasing entails, please do.

Thanks and love to all.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Check the comments section following Judith Warner's piece in the NYT op-ed page. nt

[Critters2]

2. My brother is straight, but has Asperger Syndrome.

The diagnosis didn't even exist when we were kids. All anyone knew was he was odd. And oddness got translated as "queer". His life was hell, well into high school. It caused tension in my family, with my mom calling the school to get it stopped, and my dad insisting he must've been exaggerating, and that he needed to learn to "stand up for himself". And, of course, the faculty and staff of the schools didn't so much as raise a finger to stop it. I often wonder what happened to the thugs who tormented him. Hard to imagine such violent personalities doing well in society.

Thanks for caring about this, Priyanka.

[tridim]

4. Totally understand. I have undiagnosed mild AS symptoms AND I defended the gays in my school

I caught hell from many sides, although I'm proud to say I've never thrown a punch in my life.

[Critters2]

6. My brother's reaction to it is pretty amazing, too.

He earned a master's in theology, with an emphasis in creation spirituality and now lives in a Catholic Worker House (even though he's Presbyterian). A strict religious pacifist, in spite of having faced such violence.

I'm sorry you had to go through it, too. :hug:

[tridim]

25. I should clarify, I don't think I was abused nearly as much as the people I defended

Actually I was pretty much well liked by the majority. It was only the close minded assholes who gave me shit.

I guess I was asking for it because as we all know, shy, skinny, slightly nerdy straight guys who defend gays = GAY! :eyes:

[IntravenousDemilo]

44. I'm sure the thugs are doing very well for themselves, unfortunately, way better than they deserve.

And I believe this is likely because 1) the bullies were the type to follow along with the herd, a talent that gets one far in a world where former "A" students are forced to work for duller yet more popular "C" students, and 2) life is fundamentally unfair.

[sniffa]

59. I was told I needed to learn to stand up for myself

It took me a long time but I finally became the violent maniac so people wouldn't fuck with me anymore. Then I got to High School and that didn't work anymore.

[bluestateguy]

3. Some kids who are heterosexual face bullying from kids who think they are gay

If a kid is not sufficiently "macho" or looks weak and effeminate, he too can face bullying.

I know because I was once in that situation. It motivated me to hit the gym and bulk up within 2 years the bullying tapered off.

[Critters2]

7. Yeah. I attended an anti-bullying workshop a few years ago,

that talked about bullying of kids who are "gay or perceived to be gay". They all get the same kind of crap.

[tekisui]

5. A friend of mine in high school

was gay. He identified as bi-sexual when we were in school, and had a very hard time. He was a friend of my girlfriend's family, so I knew him before he transferred into our school. The ignorant rednecks bullied him, and he quit coming to school. He had gotten the same treatment at his previous school, and likely at the next one he went to.

He committed suicide last year. No one knows his reasons for doing it, but his experience as a gay teenager in a bigoted high school was a big part of his path. He had troubles for his entire, short life.

[Warpy]

8. Gay would have been easier

As it was, I entered junior high school pudgy, glasses like milk bottle bottoms, braces on teeth, geeky interests, lousy at sports, an atheist in a sea of Southern Baptists, and utterly against the stereotype of the sweet flower of southern womanhood.

I was so far out that the gay kids came out to me, knowing somebody that was as far out of the mainstream as I was couldn't possibly hurt them. All but a couple of them were passing. There was no way I could pass.

I think most of us get bullied in middle school unless we're in that fortunate, golden 1% who end up in the ruling class, the popular kids who are untouchable. A very few of us even worked both sides of the street, bullied one day and bullying the next, hoping we could get away with it enough that the bullies were afraid of us. I never saw that work.

Of course, by the time I got to high school, the braces were off, I'd shot up in height and outgrown the pudge, and was so far out I was in again, the Plantagenet ruling class hanging around my own little clique for the conversation.

However, the intense bullying had an effect. To this day, I keep people at arm's length for a very long time until I know for certain they don't have a bullying bone in their bodies.

There is no subspecies I loathe more than bullies.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. i really doubt gay would have been easier. you can grow out of "dorkiness"

as you seemed to have. gay is sort of forever.


also, a lot of people i know who were bullied for being gay, were also physically abused. pushed into walls, closets etc

[Warpy]

13. So was I.

The kids who came out to me didn't experience anything beyond the "normal" teasing and name calling. They were passing.

I don't begin to say their lives have been easier. What I am saying is that they escaped the main bully target years less damaged than I was. They could pass for "normal," and did. There was no way I could.

Their struggle was internal, which is why they came out to me, testing the waters with the biggest freak in the school.

I just hope my acceptance helped them. Their trust helped me. It was the only positive peer contact I had for several years.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. i just dont understand why this is allowed to happen. even though i went to an exclusive school

our class sizes were 45-50. if they could keep us in check, i dont see why they cant do it here.

its absolutely outrageous

[get the red out]

26. What I saw my friend go through was criminal

literally, being beaten in the course of a "game" in PE by an adult teacher's aid, constantly threatened by the "ruling class" students (who ever used that phrase in this thread, that is exactly the term for them); and he wasn't even "out" to himself then. He was just assumed to be gay and despised for it like he wasn't even human, until someone wanted help with their homework from their future class valedictorian. I was just a homely straight girl, and that school made my life hell, and what he went through was literally criminal. But the social strata was fully supported by adults in the community. If you didn't meet the criteria for acceptance it didn't matter what was done to you. I have often wondered if the adults didn't enjoy seeing the kids keep things in their long established order? I am 44 so that was a long time ago, in a small southern town.

My friend had to have professional help in his healing from this trauma as an adult, despite being quite successful in every area of his life. He is, and has always been, an inspiration to me.

[Duncan Grant]

10. I don't think DU is a safe place for LGBT people to disclose their personal experiences of trauma.

I'm not trying to close down discussion but -- in my humble opinion -- DU is not a safe place to disclose personal trauma.

Having said that, everyone here should feel free to choose what's right for them. I hope you'll choose good self-care and healthy boundaries...

As for straight people understanding teasing and abuse -- I think they understand. Especially if they have children. Are there exceptions? Yep, there sure are. Is there anything we can do about it? Probably not.

[Dawgs]

11. It's not about being straight vs. gay, it's about how you are as a person.

For instance, many straight DUers can empathize because they are good and descent people. I don't think it's fair to say, 'just because you're straight, you don't understand'; not that you are saying that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. i think it does have to do with what you are exposed to and most people

who are straight are not exposed to as many gay lives as one who is gay

i am just giving people the benefit of the doubt :)

[Rising Phoenix]

14. I faced a lot of bullying in school

though not out as bi, I was friends with most of the kids who were out, and therefore guitly by association. It was the worst in middle school.......I was teased, because I teased nobody, had big boobs, and was poor in a rich area. It wasn't until highschool that the gay slurs against me started......Wow it is actually painful to write about and I can recall surprisingly little, but I do remember the physical abuse in the locker room, and eating lunch in the bathroom because nobody wanted to sit with me. uggg...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. ...

:loveya: :hug:

[Rising Phoenix]

17. thanks for the hug

:loveya: too, and I think this is a great topic for a thread, not everyone will want to tell their stories, but its nice to have a place to is you wish.

[PatGund]

18. Well.....

I'm heterosexual, but in Jr. High and High School, other kids thought I was Gay.

To say I was bullied was an understatement. And the staff did nothing to stop it - even when that "bullying" was being burned with cigarettes in front of the school. In my 2nd year I took the tests required to graduate, and got the hell out of that school.

Some of you may have heard of that school - Santana High School in Santee, California. Because about 19 years after I graduated, a student that was being bullied at that school snapped and killed two students and wounded 13 other students and teachers.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. ...

:hug: sorry to hear that

[enigmatic]

20. Some do, some don't

I was bullied as a kid in elementary and middle school, everything from my name (a "girl's" name) to the shitty clothes I wore, to the fact that my older brother was gay and bullied, too. It scarred both of us for a long, long time; I never really got over it, though I've adjusted somewhat and don't have the anger and the helplessness that I had the fist 20 some years of my life.

My brother took the all the anger, rage, sadness that he got from the bullies at school (and from my family, excepting me) to his death. He never could really be happy because of his experiences in school; it broke him down.

That's what bullies do, and it's why I despise them so much and go out of my way to stop them when I see it happening.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. ...

:hug:

[enigmatic]

24. .

:hug:

[Ohio Joe]

21. I do

Being a short male, I endured verbal and physical abuse on a very regular basis. People had great laughs picking me up and throwing me, into walls, down the hall, to another person, whatever. Hitting me in the back of the head ( a la Little Jackie Wright from Benny Hill) was another great laugh, open palms, closed fists, books, yes great fun it was. Through my first three years of high school, I was taken to the hospital six times because of 'teasing'. Near the start of my senior year I was being 'teased' by six other kids during school, they wanted to see if I was small enough to fit into a toilet. After they discovered I could not, they let me go. I returned quickly with a 2x4 about two feet long and broke one the the kids legs. Not one single time did anyone ever get into any type of trouble for 'teasing' me but when I 'teased' back I was sent to a psychiatrist to address my Napoleon complex.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. ..

:hug:

turns out that some of my fav people on du, suffered similarly in school

[closeupready]

27. they don't know and they dont' care.

And my class reunion is coming up this summer, and I wonder how many of them will realize that they will never see me again because of their homophobic bullshit that they put me through.

But again, just as they don't care, neither do I, and they can eat **** as far as I'm concerned because I had a miserable childhood and only part of that is my fault.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. i think some care, and some really dont care. i want to reach out to the ones who do

and the ones who dont, can eat shit. :)

[closeupready]

29. Some do, you're right.

I'm just feeling a little angry today. :rofl: But you are right and I am wrong. :)

[Creideiki]

49. Seconded--we have some wonderful allies

And I'm grateful to have them around.

[Left Is Write]

33. Don't assume they don't care.

I care.

[closeupready]

35. Thank you. As I joked with Lioness, I'm just feeling a little angry today.

So it's coming out in my chicken scratchings. :rofl: :hi:

[jonnyblitz]

30. I am sure straight folk who have been perceived to be gay by

this sort of bully know what it is like. not all who are harassed for being gay are gay.


on edit: I posted before i saw this was already addressed in the thread. OOPS. :hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. yeah... i am sure that straight folk w.a lot of gay friends may also know

[Left Is Write]

31. No, I really don't think I can imagine it -

I was teased mercilessly in junior high for being too skinny and ugly, but I don't think that's a comparable situation. I was mocked for what I looked like, not for who I was.

Given the era and environment in which I grew up (upper middle class high school in the 80s), I think being tortured for being gay would have been horrifying. Two of my classmates who are out now were pretty heavily closeted in our school days. I don't really wonder why.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

34. by the way, thank you for coming into the glbt forum. your presence is much appreciated

:hug: :loveya:

[NMMNG]

36. Some can

Others don't give a shit. "Everybody is bullied for something", "You ain't got it as bad as WE do", "I've never witnessed any bullying of LGBT people (so it doesn't exist)"..... so quit your whining!

Really, how many Eric Mohats and Carl Joseph Walker-Hoovers need to die (just the two most recent tragedies) before people consider it a problem?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. to some (and i am not talking about du'ers here) this is a solution not a problem

beat the gay/spirit/fight out of us early

[NMMNG]

40. You're just one of those Millitant Homosexual Activists

Translation: "You won't sit quietly and smile politely while we sh*t all over you."

[dsc]

38. I got it pretty bad in middle and high school

to this day I won't deal with any kind of public showers (gyms etc) due to what I went through in my various PE classes. Most of the abuse was just verbal (to the point that I thought my name was fag) but some was physical and or various humiliations such as being depantsed in the hall and the like. I went to college 600 miles way from home and drank from age 20 to age 32 so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine I was affected a little bit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

39. love and much hugs

[dsc]

41. thanks

it is one of the reasons I have been doing what I have done as a teacher. I don't want other kids going to the very dark places I went too.

[DarkTirade]

42. I really don't know what it was about my personality or physicality or something

but bullies couldn't affect me. I'm not sure what I did, but it was just like water off a duck's back. So most of my experience with bullies is when I would step in and stop them. And that was usually in reference to my geek friends, none of my gay friends came out until junior/senior year of high school and they were all well liked enough that they didn't usually have problems with assholes.

[mitchtv]

43. I wasn't bullied in HS od grammar school

both Catholic and I think the uniforms has something to do with it. I was however bullied in my working class neighborhood

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. yes, i do think the uniform helps

[Chovexani]

46. My story

I went to a science/engineering oriented HS, and you would think there wouldn't be the same kind of bullying as in other schools but it was horrible. Just horrible. And no one in any kind of position of authority gave a shit, in fact some even encouraged the bullying.

I was tormented for being queer, for being Wiccan, you name it. I cut gym class rather than face harassment in the locker room. I was pushed down stairs, shoved into lockers, spat upon, and nearly assaulted physically and otherwise many times. The only reason I was able to tough it out as long as I did was because of my own tiny "Trenchcoat Mafia". We were Goth kids, outcasts, and we accepted people that everyone else shunned. Nearly all of us were LGBT, we got called Ass Pirates and everything else you can imagine. If I were in school today we'd probably be called a gang or a threat to the school, or something. A lot of us took a heapload of shit when Columbine went down, the bullying escalated very badly, we were blamed and/or disciplined any time one of us dared to fight back against the Bible beating jocks. I ended up becoming a drop out statistic rather than a suicide statistic, and I was not the only one. Harvey Milk School saved my life. This was back in its early days before it was a full alternative HS and it was just a GED program.

I have to say though, that despite everything I went through I feel it was a valuable lesson. It taught me to never trust people just because they have authority, and that family is truly about the bonds you form and not necessarily blood. Having even the handful of friends I did, probably saved me from suicide. That and getting involved in Wicca. I got a much needed mentor at a time I desperately needed one, and he was the first adult I came across in my life that did not give me shit about my orientation. He loved me like a father and encouraged me to be true to myself. Too many LGBT youth don't have that in their lives. Way too many.

[Rowdyboy]

47. The 8th and 9th grades were very bad....not horrible but bad

Mild bullying-slurs, punches, etc- but enough to make me dread school. After that, high school was a pleasure.

[Creideiki]

50. As a teacher for those grade levels, I had to put up with theft,

destruction of classroom materials, anti-gay vandalism, verbal abuse and threats from students and parents. All of that was unaddressed by the administration--and the Union was no help.

[Creideiki]

48. I think most don't know, and don't care

but they'll claim they do and by telling us to shut up and enjoy the shade under the bus they're helping us. Someday. Like around the year 2050. Maybe 2100. Nah. That's an election year. How about 2103.

I taught in public schools for 2-1/2 years before finally deciding that my personal well-being (both emotional and physical, since threats against me went unadressed by the administrations I worked with) is too important.

There are times it's hard to tell the difference between DU and far more openly conservative areas. I'm glad a bunch of moderates and rightwingers have fled the Republican party into the Democratic party--really, I am--but it's disturbing the extent that the same people that will use "DLC" like it's a curse word turn around and espouse DLC center-right policy as "good".

[Zuiderelle]

51. +1

:applause:

[Deep13]

52. I have some idea.

As an awkward, nonathletic and frankly odd child, being a f****t was the default explanation and that pretty much all I heard growing up.

Still, I subjectively knew I wasn't gay and the kids I knew well knew it too. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to be told there is something wrong with oneself and to believe it. Obviously, in calling someone a f**, queer etc. the implication is that it is a shameful defect. With no objective source of information, I am afraid many gay kids believe it.

[VaYallaDawg]

53. I believe that kids who bully others are essentially reflecting the

attitudes and BS they hear at home - especially when it comes to other kids who are gay or whom they believe to be gay. When parents openly discuss gay people (or those of another religion or ethnic origin - or different in any way, you name it) as being "lesser humans" this gives their offspring open license to bully, beat, and in extreme cases even kill other kids.

[xchrom]

54. sadly i don't think so --

yes we have allies -- and many who care.

but even reading this thread makes me sad --

[SacredCow]

55. I don't have any personal experience from my school years....

I was never on the receiving end of any teasing of this kind. I suppose my mannerisms didn't really advertise my sexuality (and they still don't, so most people are shocked to find out that I am gay). The one thing I remember being teased for was my height (I was a late bloomer, and still not terribly tall at 5'10") but my taunters quickly realized that despite my stature, I was fully capable of giving black eyes and other assorted injuries.

Now... Do I think straight people know the full force of what many, many GLBT people face? Absolutely not. It's the "walk a mile in their shoes" thing all over again. They don't know, and many don't seem to care, frankly.

[Tim01]

56. Kids get bullied for lots of different reasons. Mostly because they allow it.

My experience has been that kids who won't put up with shit will do way better than somebody who won't stand up for themselves.

I was a substitute teacher for a while. There was a gay kid in one of my classes who refused to take crap. When I wasn't looking he had one of the girls in class write a giant "faggot" on his forehead in rainbow letters in magic marker. He took a lot of crap from some kids and he told them to fuck off. I almost sent him to the office but he chose to cover his forehead with his hair, it was friday afternoon anyway.
There was a quiet poor little redneck kid who wouldn't fight back, and he was tormented every time I turned my back.

Gay kid stands up for himself, he does ok.
Redneck kid won't stand up for himself, they eat him alive.

[Zuiderelle]

57. Then there's the alternative of a gay kid standing up for himself and getting killed.

LARRY King was a homosexual who came to school in make-up, high heels and earrings. And when the other boys made fun of him, he would tease them by flirting with them.

That may have been what got him killed.
...

Students at E.O. Green Junior High said the other kids taunted Larry, called him names and threw wet paper towels at him in the boys' toilets, and he would fire back by flirting and chasing them.

"He didn't like people insulting him," said his friend Miriam Lopez, 13. "Larry was brave enough to bring high heels and make-up to school, he wasn't afraid of anything."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23452716-401,00.html




-------

It's nice to imagine a world where someone can simply be strong and stand up to bullies and everything will work out swell. But sometimes, the bullies so outnumber the bullied that there simply is no way to stand up to them. Your post is insulting and demeaning to anyone who was ever bullied, for whatever reason, when they were children.

I was tormented ceaselessly throughout all the years of school I can remember. I didn't "stand for it" but it was what happened anyway. And I was one of the lucky ones. I'm alive.

[Tim01]

58. No matter how very upset you are, reality will always be there.

I was bullied too. It mostly stopped when I punched a few people. Of course, I had to be so freaked out and terrified that I blacked out, I don't remember the fights. But I was left alone afterward.
So according to you logic, I should feel insulted and demeaned by words which are just factual. Sorry, I'm not so easily offended.
I can guarantee you that crying and running away will cause bullying to get worse.
It is very uncomplicated, it just isn't nice.
Life is not fair, and sometimes the good guys loose.

[Zuiderelle]

61. So, because your bullying stopped when you stood up to it, you think that should apply to everyone?

It's so black and white to you. Fight, then the bullies leave you alone. Cry and run away, then the bullies are there forever. But you miss a huge portion of bullied children who fight and lose, and who never run away or cry, but the bullying doesn't stop.

Your posts are insensitive, and I don't understand why you would continue being so rude after being called on it.

[Tim01]

63. What I think doesn't matter. What I want doesn't matter.

Bullying is what it is. It didn't change last year, or this year. It will probably be the same next year. I heard the same stories from my grandfather.

There are only a few ways to react to bullying and the effects are usually predictable.

[Zuiderelle]

64. It's a message board... it's all about what we all think.

Bullying does change over time. It's nothing like what your grandfather experienced, or even what I experienced. There is no way to predict how a certain reaction will affect the bullying. And again, your simplistic view of cause and effect is insulting to anyone who was hurt by bullying. Maybe it's not insulting to the few bullied people like you who were lucky enough that the bullies left you alone when you fought back, but it's insulting to anyone else who wasn't quite so fortunate.

[Two Americas]

62. this is a distraction

At issue here is not the bully nor the target, but the bystander. That would be you.

The good guys lose - not "loose" - when others stand by and let the bad guys have their way.

You were a teacher, and you make that "loose-lose" error, and you think the targets of bullying should work it out for themselves with the bullies?


...

[Duncan Grant]

65. Thank you.

:applause:

[Tim01]

67. I'm usually pretty good with the spelling, this one always gets me.

Loose, lose, I always get that wrong.

I was not a teacher, I was a substitute teacher. That is the equivalent of guard/babysitter.

The education system is in shambles, I have seen this first hand. It is almost pre-prison.
The students almost do what they want to do, and there is a large percentage who don't want to learn, have no intention of learning, have no intention of doing what they are told.

The parents expect somebody else to take charge of their little delinquents, they will say as much. If the student is put out of school all hell breaks loose as the parents/friends/family make a giant fuss about how the student isn't getting a fair chance. The school board caves and tells the principal to find a way to keep the kids in school. The percentage of these students is large enough that even regular teachers have to deal with things like vandalism while they are actually in the class room.
Generally 2-4 groups of disruptive students who take turns distracting the teacher so the other groups can cheat, eat food, listen to music, bully other students, or whatever.
I've seen teachers walking down the halls crying. I've seen students displaying gang colors stand there and blatantly refuse the principals orders to remove them. I've seen classrooms in chaos while the teacher AND the assistant teacher are in the room trying to get control.

I am not a teacher. I am not the bystander. And I did not say they should work it out for themselves.
I said if a kid does not stand up for him or herself the bullying will get worse, and it will.

And I said the gay kid who stands up for himself will probably be better off than the redneck kid who does not stand up for himself. And that is true.

The world is full of bystanders. Never, ever, dare hope they will help. They won't.

[Two Americas]

70. ok

No idea what your point is then. You are not cut out to be a teacher, I guess, and you have noticed that we have some serious social problems in the country. Not sure how that is relevant to the topic at hand.

[Two Americas]

60. very disturbing

I find your post extremely disturbing. You say you have witnessed bullying. You say that in a few cases the target stood up to the bullies, and that ended it. In other cases it continued. I agree with you that standing up to bullies is essential. However, what you are admitting here is that you failed to stand up to bullies when you witnessed bullying. Otherwise, by your own logic, it would not have continued.

I was very fortunate in school and was not bullied. However, bullying was very common, and it is difficult for me to imagine how people can discount it or blame the victim, as you are doing here.

I stood up on behalf of those being bullied, many times to the point of fisticuffs and the like, but I would never suggest that everyone who is being bullied can or should simply fight back. Most of the kids who are not bullied, and most of the people in authority fail to stand up and defend those who are being bullied. That is the problem, not some imagined unwillingness on the part of the build person to simply stand up for themselves. Even as a person who is not being bullied, standing up to bullies is a very lonely thing. We see the exact same thing happening here, so this is not merely about school days.

Bullying goes on because the people around who are not being bullied fail to defend the victims, fail to stand up to the bullies, and instead look the other way, apologize for and excuse the behavior of the bullies, or curry favor with them, or cheer them on and admire them.


...

[goddess40]

68. You're so right - check out this book

The Bully, the Bullied, and the Bystander: From Preschool to High School--How Parents and Teachers Can Help Break the Cycle of Violence by Barbara Coloroso
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=221&topic_id=126754&mesg_id=127578

I went to a conference about bullying and Barbara spoke and she was wonderful and her book is the best I've read on bullying (and I've read plenty of them as both of my boys were targets due to their autism spectrum disorders)

Most people make excuses to avoiding dealing with the bullying issues - from teachers, parents, school administration...
It disgust me beyond belief. Schools need a character education program that starts in Kindergarten and continues through graduation.

[Two Americas]

71. thanks

Thanks goddess40. Nice to "see" you. Hope to see you post more in the future.

[Duncan Grant]

66. Let's extrapolate a foreign policy based on this approach.

...(Nations) who won't put up with shit will do way better than somebody who won't stand up for themselves.

It's an interesting line of thought.

[Duncan Grant]

69. Just in case it isn't obvious:

:sarcasm:

[ropi]

73. strange...

you write that it's allowed for different reasons..but..

"I almost sent him to the office but he chose to cover his forehead with his hair, it was friday afternoon anyway. There was a quiet poor little redneck kid who wouldn't fight back, and he was tormented every time I turned my back."

you could have stopped it..but it was friday afternoon anyway... you almost sent him to the office... almost sent HIM to the office for being bullied and cussing?

so you almost send one to the office for standing up for himself after they mark him up with magic marker--fascinating! you should have sent the GIRL..but then.."It was friday afternoon anyway..."

and you could have spoken up when the little redneck kid was being bullied as well.

shame on you, substitute teacher! sometimes standing up for those who cannot stand up on their own helps them gain confidence. then again..why am i writing this to you? it's only tuesday afternoon.

[goddess40]

72. They don't know and they don't want to know

if they acknowledge it then they have to do something about it. I'm straight but I refuse to lump myself in with those that turn a blind eye to the bullying and I ran for and got on the local school board and am trying to do something. You should see the eyes roll when I bring up bullying!

[indigo32]

74. Ya know

I tend to believe it is variable. Some cases are worse than others. But reading the reactions I've seen around it is clear that too many don't acknowledge how amazingly relentless and brutal it is in some cases. They should just stand up to those bullies, kids have called eachother 'fag' forever, those who committed suicide had serious mental problems. The excuses are endless and they are pathetic. There IS no excuse for allowing a child to be bullied into suicide. NONE.