anti-gay nutjobs vandalize St. Paul Cathedral

[northernsoul]

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5102489.html

<snip>
An informal exorcism performed at the Cathedral of St. Paul this month was more profane than sacred and was directed toward gay Catholics, police and church authorities said Tuesday.

They said the ritualistic sprinkling of blessed oil and salt around the church and in donation boxes amounted to costly vandalism and possibly even a hate crime.

The damage was discovered Nov. 7 after the noon mass, and after words were exchanged between members of the Rainbow Sash Alliance, a gay rights group, and the opposing group, Catholics Against Sacrilege.
...
The groups are at odds over gays participating in communion, one of the holiest rites in the Catholic Church.

Earlier this year, about 40 men, members of the group Ushers of the Eucharist, knelt in the aisles at the cathedral to block Rainbow members from taking communion.
...
"Regardless of why they did it, it was a very disruptive act," Skluzacek said.

He estimated the cost to clean up the damage at thousands of dollars, involving crews working three days to remove the oil and salt and cleaning the doors, steps and boxes.

A report was filed with St. Paul police, who said the case could be prosecuted as a hate crime if someone is arrested.
</snip>

IMO, The Cathedral of Saint Paul is one of the most beautiful pieces of architecture in the upper midwest, this photo doesn't quite do it justice:

[rkc3]

1. Aah Catholicism, bringing people together for 20 centuries.

[northernsoul]

2. I just find the whole thing sad and ironic

These morons damaged their own church because they were so desperately afraid "gay germs" or something.
I suppose they'll be drilling holes in sick people's head to "let the evil spirits out" next.

[rkc3]

3. I don't have a problem

with using a 3/8" carbide bit to lighten your load as long as they start on their own nuggets first.

[Village Idiot]

4. TOTAL IRONY!!!

A group called "Catholics Against Sacrilege" vandalize a Church!!! Priceless!!!

[Raster]

5. What a I find most outrageous is kneeling in the aisles to prevent....

...someone from taking the sacrament. Can you imagine, interfering with someone's worship of the same god you worship simply because they don't pass your "sniff" test?

[rodeodance]

6. during the Kerry campaign--Bishops and others groups demanded

that Kerry not recieve communion because of his stance on women't rights issues (abortion). Seems to me that this group--"catholics against Sacrilege" have taken a page from the play book!!!

[ooglymoogly]

9. sounds like a bunch of oxy morons to me

let he who is without sin bla bla bla

[happyslug]

7. This article is badly written

I had to read it twice before I understood that the problem was not "Gay Catholics" but an "Anti-Gay Catholic Group". It is the later who did the damage WITHOUT PERMISSION OR KNOWLEDGE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HIERARCHY.

Furthermore Under Catholic Doctrine one can only be denied Communion after some sort of Notice and Hearing (where you can, generally by letter, object to the Excommunication). Thus no Priest can deny a person Communion without personal knowledge that the person asking for communion can not have communion. The act of refusing to give Communion, without good cause, is itself a violation of Canon law that can lead to defrocking the Priest who denies someone the sacraments.

Now the Church has rules that it expects its members to follows, including rules as to when one can take communion. The Church expects people to follow those rules, but if the Catholic does not a Priest must still give you communion unless he is CERTAIN you can not take communion. Preventing a Catholic from taking Communion is an excommunicatable offense under Canon Law. Being a Homosexual, which is NOT a sin under Catholic Doctrine, or even committing the sin of engaging in a Homosexual act, are NOT Excommunicatable offenses under Canon Law. Excommunicatable offense are either violation of the Ten Commandments, unjustified attacks on the church hierarchy (Including physical attacks) or some other "Severe" sin NOT the sin of fornication.

Thus this is NOT the work of the Catholic Church but a small Fundamentalist groups of Catholics. To exclude a group (and this means any group) of Catholics from Communion has to be the product of the Hierarchy (and be reviewed by the Bishop, with the right to appeal to the Vatican)) not some fundamentalist Group. Thus the wording in the Article that the Church was looking into these actions as while as the Police. The fundamentalist group are the ones violating not only Civil Law but Catholic Canon Law.

[Maeve]

8. Absolutely right

They are judging the hearts of others and that is a greater sin, even in Church law, than what they are accusing others of doing.

As well as making a mess of a church.....

[dflprincess]

10. You're correct, it is poorly written

In speaking to my mom tonight she started saying how horrible it was that Gays had vandalized the Cathedral (let me make it clear she is not anti-gay) and wondered how they thought that would help their position with the Church. I told her to read the article more carefully. Well, she did, and called me back with an Emily Letila "nevermind". Then wanted to know if I knew who these morons are that did do the dirty work.

These jerks are no doubt put out with Archbishop Flynn because he did not support the Ushers of the Eucharist when they tried to keep the Rainbow group from taking Communion. In fact, one of the Cathedral priests was on the news when this happened saying it had been decided that it was not the place of any of those passing out Communion to make a judgment in regards to the communicant's state of grace.

Conservatives Catholics also criticized Flynn because he would not take a position against giving a prochoice politician Communion. Again saying he could only assume that those who present themselves for Communion have examined their own conscience and he could not pass judgment at the Communion rail.

[Zep]

11. I'm AM gay, NOT Catholic and ...

... truly don't understand the issue.

The vandalism is despicable, that part I understand.

But why do you want communion? Do you really believe you are eating Christ's flesh? Fooey!

And why would you want to be "in communion" with an outfit that says you're going to Hell, even if technically you are permitted to eat the Jesus cookie?

I'm not trying to be mean, and I hope I'm not being dense.

Please be nice and just explain this to me.

I was raised religious (not Catholic) and I say dump the lot.

[happyslug]

12. The Issue is who is a Catholic

The act of Communion is basically saying you are a member of the family known as the Catholic Church. It is the same concept as a family that dines together. If you study sociology you will find out that eating as a group is one way a group of people interact together. It is a "bonding" activity.

Thus if you are in Communion with the Catholic Church you are a member of that family (which the catholic Church says is the Family of Christ).

Christ did not exclude people from his followers merely because they were sinners. He even forgive a woman who had committed a "Severe Sin (i.e. Adultery which is a violation of the ten Commandments). Thus merely doing an Act that is a "Sin" or even living in "sin" (as in the case of the woman at the well, who Christ told to bring her Husband to his sermon, when she say she had no husband, he told her to bring the man she was living with).

On the other hand Christ did kick out the Money Changers from the temple. He did not tolerate people who abused the system for their own gain.

Thus the issue of communion is who and who is NOT a Catholic. On the other hand Catholic Doctrine says merely being in sin or committing a sin does NOT damn you to Hell. What Damns you to hell are "Severe Sins". No sex crime damns a person to hell (With the exception of Rape which is viewed as a violation of someone's property and thus a violation of the Ten Commandments).

The Point is being Homosexual or committing a Homosexual Act does NOT automatically damns you to Hell under Catholic Dogma. If in doing the act you violate one of the ten commandments that act damns you to Hell, but fornication is NOT a violation of the ten Commandments.

Now the Catholic church does maintain that doing the mass, they are transforming the bread to the body of Christ. This doctrine reflects the thinking at the time of the Roman Empire that followers what Christ said about his body and blood (in the form of Bread and Wine). At that time it seems people believed such transformation was needed for Christ said it. Since that time the Doctrine has survived but generally ignored for the concept is no longer needed (More and more people can accept the wording as symbolic as opposed to being actual). On the other hand there is no real need to drop the doctrine so it stays in the Doctrine but ignored.

The main thing about Communion is who is a member of the Church. If you take Communion you accept that you are a member of the Church, if you do not take Communion you are telling people by that action that you are not a member of the Church.

[Zep]

13. The act of Communion is basically saying you are a member of the family

I suspect that is NOT an the explanation your Pope would endorse.

You are allegedly consuming Christ's flesh, for bizarre mystical reasons. Do you believe in that?

Reject and marginalize the mumbo-jumbo, buddy. Don't worry about "inclusion", jettison the crapola.

Why "be a Catholic"?