"Don't Ask Don't Tell" is a relic

[Mike 03]

Today I watched debate on the topic of "Don't Ask Don't Tell," and the only reason I could not burst out laughing is because I realize how hurtful this debate is to gays, lesbians and transgender people whose livelihoods are at stake. There is nothing funny about it, but in a decade or so we are going to look back on this chapter in our history just as we look back on our treatment of black americans in the sixties. It is so ridiculous and yet so despicable. It is hard to even comprehend that the Repukes are forcing us to have this debate.

All I can say is that from the bottom of my heart, just as denying same sex marriage is wrong, so is denying gay or lesbian warriors from choosing to serve in the military is dead wrong. Dead wrong.

My heart goes out to the LGTB community here. I am fighting with you one hundred percent.

[slackmaster]

1. A friend who is in the Navy told me the previous policy of "DKDC" actually worked better

Don't know, don't care.

[dsc]

5. your friend is just flat out wrong

Gays were literally hunted down by Ken Starresque investigators in the days before DADT. Gay service members were arrested, gay civilians were threatened with being out on their jobs or to their families, the Dutch government was nearly forced to collapse due to our government repeatedly lying to it over one gay soldier. Read Conduct Unbecoming and trust me, you won't think it was better before DADT.

[David Zephyr]

7. DADT was an incremental, albeit small, improvement on the former policy.

What happened before was truly horrific. I have friends, still alive from that time, and others who are now deceased. It was not a good time either.

But DADT is wicked in and of itself. It demands that the soldier lie. That's a pretty shitty thing.

[Creideiki]

10. DADT codified the previous policy

If the senior leadership at a command doesn't care, then sometimes people can slip by. However, I had a senior enlisted who was shown the Path to Jesus (TM) by the Navy to cure his repeated hardcore drug habits. Said Master Chief actively hunted people down and tormented them on suspicion or association. DADT only gave him more teeth.

[TheWraith]

14. Sort of. Technically, Congress codified the previous policy, but DADT has two parts.

The first part, which is statute law, is the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1994, which was Congress' way of overruling Clinton's platform of open service. It said that being gay is directly harmful to the well being of the military, etcetera, and that gay troops should be discharged. This portion was effectively the same as the previous policy enacted in 1982, which was a ban on gays in the military.

Part two is Department of Defense Directive 1304.26, which is the deal Clinton hammered out that says you can't be asked directly if you're gay, and a set of guidelines to try and prevent witchhunts.

[TheWraith]

13. Yes and no. It was supposed to be an improvement...

The deal as originally laid out when they agreed to it was that private lives would be off limits for investigation, period, and that a soldier could go about their civilian life as they saw fit, including being "out" to family and friends, and that the military would not actively pursue investigations, hence the original name: "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue, don't harass." Of course, it didn't work out that way at all.

If you look at the evidence in the form of discharge numbers, more gay people have been thrown out of the service per year under DADT than there were under the previous policy. Now part of that is the fact that there's a greater degree of openness about being gay now than there was in, say, the 1980s. However, the fact is that from a purely numbers standpoint, a gay soldier was more likely to be kicked out of the service in 1999 versus 1989, all other things being equal.

This of course is subject to other conditions, since DADT discharges have varied heavily from a litle over 400 last year to more than 1,200 in 2001.

[terrya]

2. There is no reason whatsoever why gay men and lesbians can't serve their country openly.

This is so, so cruel. They are willing to die for their country. Why can't they be allowed to open about themselves?

There's no other word to describe this hateful excuse for bigotry. It's cruel. Period.

Thank you for your words and being with us.

[Chipper Chat]

3. This picture and caption says it all:

"Can you pick out the gay soldier?
"

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

4. "seperate but equal"

I wait for the day when "don't ask, don't tell" is seen as the same kid of relic to an ugly past.

[David Zephyr]

6. Thanks.

Much appreciation.

[struggle4progress]

8. 'Don't ask, don't tell' vote fails: Reaction

... Sen. Clarie McCaskill (D-Mo.), in comments to reporters after the vote:

"I think there was maybe a breakdown over the terminology between relevant and crazy. This is what happens when your Republican Party decides that reauthorizing everything we need to do for our military is less important than making sure you get that tax break from everybody's second million, and that's exactly what's happened now." ...

"A tax cut for multimillionaires is more important than pay raises for our military? I can't believe the American people are going to stand by and not get angry about this. We ought to be able to reauthorize our defense spending for the year. there are a lot of people all over the world right now in our military who are scratching their heads and saying, what in the world happened to the Republican Party that's always prided itself on supporting our military." ...

Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), in comments to reporters after the vote:

"I support the repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell," and there are a lot of complications with the defense authorization bill and what we needed was a reasonable process with reasonable amendments. I think you saw that we didn't get that here." ...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/12/dont_ask_dont_tell_vote_fails_1.html



Senate GOP Blocks Cloture On Repeal Of Don't Ask, Don't Tell
Evan McMorris-Santoro | December 9, 2010, 4:05PM

... Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME), the focus of the negotiations, voted in favor of cloture while Republican Sens. Scott Brown (MA) and Lisa Murkowski (AK) voted no. Freshly-elected Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) also voted no.

Three Senators missed the vote: Sam Brownback (R-KS), John Cornyn (R-TX) and Blanche Lincoln (D-AR). Brownback and Lincoln are both leaving the Senate after the lame duck -- Brownback was elected governor of Kansas, and Lincoln went down in defeat to Sen.-elect John Boozman (R) ...

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/senate-gop-blocks-cloture-on-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell.php

[TheWraith]

15. "I think there was maybe a breakdown over the terminology between relevant and crazy."

:rofl:

Claire McCaskill is fucking awesome.

[racaulk]

9. Thank you for your solidarity, Mike 03.

Yesterday was a terrible day. :(

[axelfox]

11. This.

I'm Gay and want the don't ask don't tel thing to be repealed.

[pgodbold]

12. In addition to the amazing array of BS facing this country we may now expect the radicalization of

the gay community of which I am one. FUCK AMERICA.

on edit... It occurs to me that I should explain my intent. It is not climbing into the trees and shooting at straight couples in the park. I fully intend to FUCK AMERICA the old fashioned way. I'll be pulling every republican lever in the voting booth and with each and every one whispering FUCK AMERICA with a broad smile on my face. I'm way past caring anymore.