So, had enough of the Brokeback Mountain jokes????

[cboy4]

Did you hear the one about 'Brokeback'?

Jocelyn Noveck, Associated Press

Is the bottomless font of "Brokeback Mountain" humor -- late-night monologues, fake Internet movie trailers, movie poster imitations -- harmless and fun, or insulting?

Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force, says he's sick of it: "It may be funny, but there is a real element of homophobia. It's making jabs about sex between gay men."

**Yay Matt!!

http://www.gay.com/content/tools/print.html?coll=pno_entertainment&sernum=1177&navpath=/channels/entertainment/brokeback/
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I've bitched about this topic before, but I'm going to bitch again:

Gays are certainly the ONLY minority group where it's okay to make stereotypical comments without anyone being held accountable.

I don't hear Jay leno and Letterman talking about how much African Americans just luvvv their fried chicken and their watermelon and their grape soda. It would be outrageously ugly and racist if they did do.

But, oh my god. Gays??? There are seemingly no boundaries.

If all things were equal, I'd have no major problem with Brokeback-related jokes, but things in this country are not equal and there are limitations. In my opinion, over the top gay jokes only fuel the vicious agenda of these so-called Christians like Robertson and Falwell.

And for all of you straight people who might post a response telling me to get a sense of humor....I do have a sense of humor. But double standards concerning race are just not fair. ;)

[Mythsaje]

1. I didn't even know they were making jokes

but, all things considered, it doesn't surprise me. Just like they seem to find the idea of gay rape in prison funny, when it's anything but...

A lot of straight men have real serious issues with the idea of gay sex...it makes them uncomfortable as hell. I'm not even able to guess why, frankly, because it doesn't bother me. I don't spend all that much time thinking about it.

[SushiFan]

2. I wouldn't say that. Fat people are very often ridiculed as well...

but they can't help what they are either. 'Course, I'm both gay and fat, so maybe I'm double sensitive about it.

[cboy4]

15. But you know what Sushi?

***Heavy people can change. For the most part, heavy people can lost weight. Gay people cannot become straight.

***Heavy people can get married.

***Heavy people can visit their significant other in the hospital if they're god forbid very sick.

***For the most part, heavy people do not have to worry about getting turned down for a job (unless they wanna go into modeling)

You know what I mean? I completely understand that fat people are ridiculed also, and it's terrible.

But the last time I checked, there was nothing on the 2004 ballots trying to get legislation passed to stop people from being fat.

Hold on while I step down from my soap box ;)

[SushiFan]

16. No prob., cowboy................

I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I was never fat until now. But I ALWAYS have been gay. Point well taken, point well made. Go in peace bro. I'm on OUR side!

[cboy4]

17. Hey, thanks for that!

:pals:

[gator_in_Ontario]

33. Amen

I was going to point that out. Large folks and gay folks seem to be the last people we can make fun of.
Is that progress? Maybe..maybe not.

[catnhatnh]

3. So, Like I should be pissed....

about how St. Patricks day is a big drinking event??? As one of the very few Irish alcoholics I guess I should be doubly pissed....and YOU-you look like someone who WANTS my "Lucky Charms"....Well, as my Grandpa used to say (when occasionally sober) T'Hell witch'ya....

[cboy4]

9. uh, yea, whatever you say

[StClone]

4. When the jokes fade

The movie will have left a mark that may have been buffered into consciousness through the use of jokes. This could be a good thing.

[DURHAM D]

5. Sorry - it is still quite OK to hear unchallenged remarks and

very bad jokes about Gypsies.

[cboy4]

11. Don't get it

[foreigncorrespondent]

6. I expect this kind...

...of tasteless humor from those morons on the right, but what I am sick and tired of is hearing those kinds of tasteless jokes from those who claim to be lefties.

As I said recently in another post, the last five years have shown me just how right wing the left has become. But many on DU have told me time and time again that we need to move further to the right in order to win elections, so I guess that must be true. :sarcasm:

[cboy4]

18. I know bud!!

Sometimes I wonder why I waste my time posting these comments, but there's something deep inside me that says not to quit.

And with reinforcement from wonderful DU pals like yourself who understand how frustrated I get about so-called friends on the left posting ridiculously sad comments in the LGBT room, I'm gunna keep on responding to this nonsense!!! ;)

:pals:

P.S. Can you believe some of these peope?!?! Are they Freeper trolls or what??

[foreigncorrespondent]

25. cboy...

...all we can do is continue calling them on their homophobia. If we manage to reach just one person then that is an accomplishment. And not at all impossible on DU. I remember several of us who were dedicated to drumming out the homophobia that does run wild on DU at times have managed to reach a few people over the years.

As for some of the people, I really don't know what to make of them. They are either trolls or poor little lost soul centrists who are further right than left and we will never have a hope of reaching.

[Skittles]

7. yes

all the gay folk I know are fine with a bit of good-natured ribbing but they know when the "jokes" are just plain homophobia, as do I.

[Erika]

10. Good post!

Christians are wrong to join in the ridicule of their fellow citizens concerning emotional love with the cumulation of the sex act.

Emotions and private sexual lives should not be the butt of jokes.

It's very different from saying the Irish drink too much or Italians have fiery tempers, etc.

[Skittles]

12. my gay friends give back as good as they get

we have a lot of laughs......I guess I can compare it to men making comments or jokes about women - we instinctively seem to know the meaning behind comments - we know whether they truly appreciate us or if it is a result of misogyny.

[catnhatnh]

13. Or male gays are "artistic"

or even "You know how "them" people are....I'm sorry your suffering with stereotypes is much more searing than other groups...and this is NOT sarcasm...gays do get it very tough as compared to other groups...I recognize I don't have to deal with humor directed at me caused by latent (and suppressed) "Irishnationality"...Just know that you are winning the fight,however slowly...this is hard to believe but it is true...when I first dealt with a gay friend in the early 70's he had real and constant fear of exposure and my children's friends do not...I tried to inject a lighter tone and its not taking here...I think that is unfortunate...

[cboy4]

21. Wow. What a nice post. Thanks so much for your kindness

:pals:

[catnhatnh]

24. Yeah....Never count on...

..."the kindness of strangers"...but I AM an old guy...after you say the same stuff that wasn't considered offensive for many years you are liable to repeat it...I LIKE to think I have that much at least in common with Archie Bunker... that though I am a crusty old clown,that if you sat and talked with me we would be sympatico....cheers..

[cboy4]

30. Thanks Erika!

I think I'll hire you as my publicist!! :toast:

[Erika]

8. Anyone who saw the show and makes jokes is 100% sick!

Brokeback Mountain was the classic love story of unrequited love. It was both beautiful and tragic with all the emotional depth of a Tennessee Williams novel.

Anyone who chooses to concentrate on the sex act rather than the bond of love over years is a complete idiot.

One person today started to talk about what her husband said John Wayne would have said until she saw my look. She stopped. This is someone who considers herself a loving and Christian woman and I know her well enough to know she then realized she was being anything but Christian.

It infuriates me that they will joke without even seeing the movie.

[Merlot]

14. Though I agree that the jokes may be stupid

I don't think gays are the ONLY minority that it's ok to make steryotypical comments about. I hear jokes and comments about women all the time that would never be acceptable to say about people of a different race. It's all about who we are and what we are most sensitive to.

On the other hand, humor is the best way of making a subject no longer "taboo." So if straight people need to make stupid jokes in order to feel comfortable talking about gays, then maybe it's at least opening them up to conversation. Although I recognize that some people tell jokes just to be mean and will never change.

[cboy4]

19. So you're saying if I'm uncomfortable

talking to African Americans, it would be okay to make make hurtful jokes, even if they're just in fun, in order to fell comfortable talking to them.

Instead of jokes, how about getting to know them. How about asking them questions about things you don't understand?

I'm more than happy answering questions about my life.

The bottom line is it's okay to make gay jokes in the lunch room at work. It's not okay to make African American, Asian and Latino jokes in the lunch room at work, without the fear of being dragged into the human resources office.

And Merlot....I respect your post and don't believe (maybe I'm wrong), but I don't believe you're one of those people.

[Merlot]

26. No, that's not what I'm saying

I'm saying that humor opens the doors to discussion. If someone makes a joke you don't like, they have still opened up the subject for discussion. You can then talk to them about their "joke."

Humor helps.

[libnnc]

20. I was thinking about this very thing today

pisses me off too. This is the most important film (for gay men anyway) since "Philadelpia". It's a serious, moving, groundbreaking movie and it has turned into a fucking punchline.

This lesbian ain't laughing. :mad:

[saltpoint]

22. I wonder how many non-famous people who are making jokes about the

film have even SEEN the film.

I bet not all.

Ang Lee has made a fine film with gleaming performances. I hope a lot of folks stop snickering and go see the thing. I think March 5th is going to be a really fine night for Mr. Lee and his film out in Hollywood.

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. Hmmm.... there's a paradox here.....

>>>>>>Gays are certainly the ONLY minority group where it's okay to make stereotypical comments without anyone being held accountable.

I don't hear Jay leno and Letterman talking about how much African Americans just luvvv their fried chicken and their watermelon and their grape soda. It would be outrageously ugly and racist if they did do.

But, oh my god. Gays??? There are seemingly no boundaries.>>>>>>


Seems to me gays *embrace* lots of stereotypes about themselves in a way that other marginalized groups don't.

"Will and Grace", for instance, ( I'll assume that there is a great deal of gay involvement in the writing and production of that program... although I don't know this for a fact) absolutely *revels* in gay ( esp. male) stereotypes. Serves as the basis for most of it's humor ( alas, not the strongest comic elements in the show, though, which are served up by the 'straight' females, Karen and Grace, IMHO).

Could be we are sending out mixed messages about what's OK re stereotypes.

[moose65]

28. Yeah, but....

"Will and Grace" is a comedy.... so I think it's ok to make jokes about a comedy. "Brokeback" is certainly NOT a comedy, it's a tragedy. I don't remember Leno and Letterman joking about "Schindler's List" or even "The Passion of the Christ." I'm gay, and I've certainly made my share of jokes about my gay friends and the "stereotypes" that they exhibit, but I'd never joke about anything serious that happens to them.... for instance, if one of my friends faced overt discrimination, I'd be angry, not jovial.

[cboy4]

29. PaulHo, gay people don't embrace stereotypes...

Stereotypes are invented by straight people.

And if gay people do make stereotypical comments.....a lot of times, it's to mask the pain and frustration of our lack of civil righs.

Just keep this in mind (I'm assuming you're white), if you watch a movie, and the black actors say the "N" word 50 times, I don't think you're going to go get coffee afterwards and say to the African American cashier at Starbucks, "Yea, nigger, I'll have a Venti Mocha..." Right?

Lots of black people use the "N" word, however, you have no right to say that word.

[terrya]

27. Yep. Letterman did another one in his monologue the other night.

And queeny acting Paul Shaffer yuked it up with the rest of the audience.

I'm sick of them. Don't like the movie? Don't go see it. Period.

[kevinbgoode]

31. You notice they don't make any sexual jokes about

the evangelicals. . .maybe we need to ask them why? Seems to me there should be plenty of fodder for late night hosts to talk about the evangelistas and their uptight closeted sex lives.

[insleeforprez]

32. This is why homophobic jokes are told:

Because they're funny. Funnier than, say, a racist joke, anyway.

This is because homosexuality is about sex (maybe not the act, but the attraction forms the whole definition of homosexuality). Sex is a funny subject, and it doesn't take a brilliant comedian to tell a funny joke about sex.

On the other hand, issues like race have nothingto do with sex, so it's much harder to make a funny joke about it.

It's that simple.

**I'm not saying that this is "acceptable," just that this is the way it is. As for my own opinions about the Brokeback jokes, I think that some of them are funny, but there is a very gray line between funny and hurtful, and that line has been crossed frequently.

[Meldread]

34. Pointed this out weeks ago, and was roasted alive...

I pointed this out weeks ago, and was roasted alive by people saying I needed to get a sense of humor. Most people I know seem to think I have a great sense of humor, and frankly I spend most of my time laughing. Some Brokeback jokes ARE funny, for example a Photoshopped picture of Bush and a Oil Barrel using a Brokeback poster with the caption, "Why can't I quit you?" After his State of the Union Address WOULD be funny, and I'd laugh.

It's the stereotypical jokes that piss me off. I find them insulting and demeaning, and more often than not they have little to nothing to do with the movie - they are directed at gay people or homophobes who are uncomfortable with gay people. They might as well just run around chanting "Faggot Movie! Faggot Movie!" over and over again, it amounts to the same thing. It makes me want to kick their asses.

[Glorfindel]

35. Anybody but me old enough to remember "Love Story"?

Half the country was weeping its eyes out, and the other half was making "preppie, preppie, preppie" jokes. I'm as thin-skinned and defensive as any other gay man, but sometimes imitation really is the sincerest of flattery. I saw a C-Threepio/Artoo Deeto "Brokeback Planet" poster the other day that I thought was hilarious.

[Obamarama]

36. I think you need to grow a thicker skin.....

No matter how outraged we all get, we're likely to be the easy punchline for some time to come. You can go into fits of high dudgeon and raise your blood pressure more than a few points. Or, you can let it go, laugh at the ignornace of the person telling the joke, forget about it, and get on with your life.

Do these types of jokes bother me? Yeah. Can I do anything about it? Probably not. Am I going to work myself into a snit over it? Nope. I'm Jewish and I grew up hearing a lot of Jewish jokes, too. Maybe I just learned from an early age to simply ignore that type of humor and move on.