"Gays are the new Jews"

[scottxyz]

"I have heard a lot of people say that, after the 2004 election, 'gays are the new Jews.' That struck me as a bit of hyperbole at first.

But maybe not..."

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/02/final-solution.html
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004/12/eliminationist-watch.html

My take on this? Most Americans actually accept gays - partly because most know someone who is gay.

But there are a lot of politicians who "use" gays as an "enemy" to whip up fear and to consolidate support.

[peacetalksforall]

1. GAYS ARE USEFUL!!!! It's true, isn't it. The truth is ugly indeed.

There are instances where you let someone use you...for a variety of reasons. But, being used without permission.....?

[mitchtv]

2. maybe I should like Franken's "oy, oy" segments

I wish I could , I wish I could.

[soleft]

3. Another incident to be really worried about is the PBS producer

who got disinvited to speak at the conference this weekend. So now if you produce a TV show depicting gays as normal you can't attend programs associated with the government.

Isn't this the way it starts?

[oneold1-4u]

4. That's OK

Not too far away, the signs of the times will make "red" seem worse than communism and republican worse than Bolshevik.
Thought about not remaining in the Dem. party because they seem so divisive on so many choices and agendas. I know that the reps. are really destroying their party with "big bombs" every day that will be exploded someday, and someone has to put stuff back together AGAIN! There is a fuse and some repub. idiot will trip it unexpectedly and leave a hole the size of TX.
Remember, not all gays are Democrats! Try to keep them safe from themselves!

[foreigncorrespondent]

5. Ok...

...if "most"Americans accept gays, then how come the politicians can use bigotry, hate, and fear so easily on the population?

You would think that it would have the opposite affect on the population wouldn't you? I certainly would expect so.

In all honesty, I believe that most accept gays to our faces, but when our backs are turned it is a totally different situation.

[Meldread]

6. That's how I see it as well.

They'll say, 'oh yeah I don't have a problem with gay people' in public, on polls done over the phone, but when they are all alone or think they are anonymous they'll stick a dagger in your back.

[mitchtv]

7. you got it FC

I KNOW, that is the way it is.Du'rs excepted

[Moloch]

8. Check out this site...

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hitler.html

It is quite scary the catalog of similarities between the way Nazis spoke of Jews and the way Fundamentalists are portaying homosexuals. It's on the Matt Shepard memorial site.

Jews Control Everything


Gays Control Everything

Jews 1% of population: control politics, world opinion, NYC, & have lots of money "At the beginning of the twentieth century, the Jews sit at the junction of the world financial markets. They are an international power. Although only one per cent of the world's population, with the help of their capital, they terrorize the world stock exchanges, world opinion, and world politics. New York is today the center of Jewish power." - Nazi propaganda film, "The Eternal Jew," http://www.holocaust-history.org/der-ewige-jude/stills.shtml



Gays 1% of population: control politics, have lots of money
"Homosexuals display political control far beyond their numbers. A tiny fraction of the population (about 1 percent), homosexuals have one of the largest and fastest growing Political Action Committees in the country (The Human Rights Campaign) and give millions of dollars to candidates". - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, testifying before the US Senate Labor Committee hearings on S.2238, July 29, 1994.

The gays control television & radio, Hollywood
"You know, the gays are in control in Hollywood; they are in control of television; they are in key positions at the Washington Post now; and they watch everything that is coming into the newspaper or television and radio, and they are editing it out." - Anthony Falzarano, Parents & Friends of 'Ex-Gays', http://www.frc.org/net/st95l1.html

Gays more politically powerful than other Americans
"On average, they are far wealthier, more educated, and more politically powerful than other Americans." - WHY SCHOOLS ARE TEACHING YOUR KIDS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY, Steve Schwalm, Family Research Council, May 14, 1998, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98i1hs.html

Scary.

[Duncan Grant]

9. Ok everyone, call me a wet blanket.

I need to go on record that I don't like the expression, "Gays are the new Jews". Really and truly - we're not. I understand that the expression is an expedient way to summarize political/cultural/religious anathema toward 'gays' but the comparison is currently a stretch.

Yes, there are similarities. No, millions of gays have not been systematically relocated, dehumanized, murdered or enslaved. I just felt it necessary to remember this (for myself).

(scottxyz, I want to be clear that my post should not be interpreted as a criticism of you.)

[xchrom]

10. No, millions of gays have not been systematically relocated, dehumanized,

yes we have.
that's an important misunderstanding of our history.
we have suffered all of those things -- but in silence.
we could not talk about the millenia of anti-gay violence and cleansings because we did not live in community -- it was done to us one at a time.
and we could not talk about it because -- even as victims of horrble crimes -- we could not admit to others{even ourselves?} why the crimes against had been commited.
it has taken work to uncover gay history -- and put together who contributers to society's good good were that were gay -- as well as victims.

[Ian David]

11. Get an opportunity to give an "anti-gay speech"

I know that at some rallies, they allow people from the audience to get up and speak at the mic.

I suggest this:

Blend-in at an anti-gay rally, and ask for a turn at the mic.

When you are at the podium, start giving a speech that quotes verbatim the anti-Jewish hate speech of the Nazi era:
http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hitler.html

Just change "Jew" to "homosexual" or "gay."

At the end of your speech to the crowd of anti-gay folks, close with:

"Isn't this exactly how we feel?" (Wait for applause).

"Amazingly, with very minor changes, these are prophetic words actually written in 1935. All I did was change the word 'Jews' to 'gays' in these statements that were all made by Adolf Hitler in 1935 about the 6 million Jews he was sending to their deaths.

"Congratulations, for we are the new standard-bearers of Adolf Hitler's agenda.

"Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!"

-----

On edit:

Michigan just passed The Conscientious Objector Policy Act (COPA) which would allow physicians, pharmacists, and health care insurers to refuse medical treatment to any individual they choose on "ethical, moral, or religious grounds."
www.365gay.com/newscon04/04/042904michFolo.htm
www.tgcrossroads.org/news/?aid=870
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/opinion/8709907.htm
http://www.washblade.com/2004/5-7/news/healthnews/HIBS.cfm
http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=2003-HB-5006

While the law forbids "conscientious objections" due to race and religion, they rejected an amendment to the bill that would have included sexual orientation on the list of those who could not be discriminated against.

They also rejected an amendment that would have required an objector to provide a referral to another service provider.

And the bill does make an exception for "emergency treatment," but does not specify what constitutes an emergency-- for example, is bleeding to death an emergency, or is something like a broken arm (not life threatening, but painful) an emergency?

There are COPA laws in the works in several other states right now. I honestly believe that if we do not do something soon, this will be the first true step in the next Holocaust.

[xchrom]

13. you were replying to me or #9

cause i agree with you.

[Duncan Grant]

15. Figuratively speaking, I understand the comparison - Gays are the new Jews

Perhaps it was unclear that I was speaking of the literal 20th century Holocaust. As I mentioned before, the Gay/Jew comparison is an expedient metaphor and it's my experience that my life struggles pale in comparison.

When I consider the suffering of all people who shared a same-sex attraction throughout all time and place, I have a tremendous 'feeling' of connection and empathy. On that level, I think you and I (and many others in this thread) are in complete agreement. :hi:

ps: I think many GLBT people (and our allies) are sensitive to the suffering of others precisely because of our unique vantage point.

[readmoreoften]

21. HERE HERE!!!

much love, from a gay of jewish decent.

[Meldread]

12. Homosexuality during Nazi Germany

http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/people/VictHomo.htm

[Duncan Grant]

16. I'm familiar with the history.

One of the most chilling experiences of my life occurred in Berlin while standing at a memorial to the homosexuals who were deported to 'labor' camps during WWII. I'll never forget it.

The horrors of my life really don't compare.

[davidinalameda]

14. not to be an asshole

but remember that gays were also rounded up and murdered in the Nazi camps

and the lovely little term faggots--it means bundles of sticks--sticks that were used to burn people accused of being gay at the stake

millions of us have been dehumanized and murdered over the centuries

for every Mathew Sheperd that makes the front pages, there's so many more that don't

our youth are killing themselves or trying to kill themselves because they're told they're sick or evil

and too many of us adults are sitting back in our condos in the Castro or other ghettos and saying its not our problem

[Duncan Grant]

17. I don't think you're being an asshole at all, dwickham.

I was just mentioning above how I was thinking about the Gay/Jew comparison in very specific terms. The events you mention are very familiar to me, I just don't think the homophobia I've experience thus far is comparable to the extermination experienced by 20th century Jews.

Also wanted to mention that I don't come to DU to be in agreement with everyone. I appreciate divergent opinions and personal perspectives - it helps to inform the ways I look at the world. Thank you for being honest and speaking up!

Lastly (folding arms across chest while tapping right toe), I want you to know I don't have a condo in the Castro. :evilgrin: :hi:

[Meldread]

18. *laughs*

Yeah, I would agree that you probably haven't experienced that much homophobia living in San Francisco. Although I wouldn't advise you to come to Southern Virginia. You'd be in for a real culture shock. ;)

I'm just waiting for what insane evil thing they are plotting to do next. :evilfrown: :scared:

[mitchtv]

19. Oh honey try the 24 Divisadero bus

or the 22 fillmore (killmore) there is9eas) enough homophobia to go around when I lived there.

[davidinalameda]

25. I grew up in West Virginia

I've experiences homophobia first hand

[Duncan Grant]

28. I was born in West Virginia.

My parents were raised there. I visited WVA every summer until I was 21. I'm pretty clear about homophobia, even the kind we don't have here in San Francisco.

[Boomer]

30. Say huh?

>> I just don't think the homophobia I've experience thus far is comparable to the extermination experienced by 20th century Jews. <<

Well, of course not. And none of my Jewish friends have experienced the same level of anti-semitism as their grandparents did during the 30's and 40's. Those were "special" times, and gays, Jews, gypsies and people with mental disorders were ALL subjected to an extreme expression of hatred.

Fast forward 50 years. We're not the new Jews; we're just the same old queers faced with the very real possibility of another Holocaust. Is our history going to repeat itself? We won't know for years, if not decades, but the signs are not good.

When people hear "Nazi Germany" they immediately think of the END of the reich, when the atrocities were in full swing, rather than the beginning of the reign of terror. It took years for the creeping horror to manifest itself into the ultimate solution. It started with hate-mongering from the fringe, with the curtailing of small liberties, with the gradual erosion of civil rights (like the gradually warming water that masks the eventual fate of the lobster).

We're not going to be marched into camps today, or even tomorrow. Instead we're going to be marginalized with laws that (as of today in Virginia) declare we can't get married, that will block our ability to adopt. Then we'll be barred from owning joint property, or working in certain "sensitive" professions. Then the list of off-limit occupations will grow longer, bit by bit.

We'll be added back into the psych books under "Mental Illness" and a new line of drugs will be created to help us moderate our dysfunctional behavior. And then, if we refuse medication, we'll be institutionalized "for our own good." And since so many of us will be warehoused, it will be necessary to make us work to support the cost of the institutions.

Many German Jews were quite assimilated, had never experienced discrimination, and saw themselves as Germans first, then Jews. They had strong ties to the Gentile community, many friends, had inter-married. All that counted for nothing in the end, but the end came gradually and the Germans did nothing to stop it.

Do you really think Americans will be any less accommodating as we're swept away?

[Duncan Grant]

31. We're not the new Jews.

<We're not the new Jews; we're just the same old queers faced with the very real possibility of another Holocaust.>

I couldn't agree with you more. No hyperbole or self-righteous "my life is so like Homosexual European Jews during WWII" was used to make the point either. Great post!

Your comments about how people hear 'Nazi Germany' and either think of the "end" of the Reich or the "beginning" of the Reich are important. You've explained (perfectly, I think) the many positions in this thread about how the lives of contemporary gays may be understood within the context of history (pre- and post-war Germany).

<Do you really think Americans will be any less accommodating as we're swept away?>

No. I wouldn't kid myself about that for one minute.

[readmoreoften]

20. gays are the new gays.

first thing hitler did is kill 100,000 gay men...

we're the test population. they see how much people will accept brutality towards us and then they move up the food chain to the bigger fish.

[xchrom]

22. spot on

since all groups have had it in for gay folk --
we have to understand it from that perspective.

mind you -- it's not ''our oppression is bigger than yours''.
it's merely reading our own history -- and figuring out where we are on the map.

[Ian David]

23. Pictorial

[xchrom]

24. lol -- ya gotta love it

when pictures like those say so much.

[davidinalameda]

26. I just rented Bent

the final scene just amazed me

really liked the movie--not to mention that Clive Owen is some major eye candy and he can act!

[Duncan Grant]

27. A passage from the documented history: Simon Wiesenthal Center

I agree that Gays are the new Gays. History does provide benchmarks to watch in the current anti-gay political environment.

"The wave of persecution peaked between 1937 and 1939 and declined thereafter. Most of the homosexuals who died in the concentration camps were victims of overwork, starvation, brutality, and general mistreatment. As a matter of policy, German nationals were not sent to the East for gassing, and this applied also to the homosexual German prisoners. The total number of victims (those incarcerated minus survivors) remains unknown, since no estimates have been made on the basis of the surviving records. Although Lautmann's figure of 5,000 to 10,000 homosexuals incarcerated in the camps may be low, in general it probably reflects the approximate maximum number of homosexual camp victims.

Simon Wiesenthal Center, Multimedia Learning Center Online: http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/resources/books/annual7/chap12.html

[Guy Fawkes]

29. So, wait...

does that make me TWICE the Jew I was before?

[xchrom]

32. wait til i tell jerry falwell...