Bill Maher's Homophobic Rant

[Brian_Expat]

I don't know why this guy is such a "god" to progressives. Did anyone see his session on "Jeff Gannon?"

He cracked a joke with Leslie Stahl that "looks like the White House has a mole in it -- or a gerbil." Ha ha ha. Good old fashioned jokes from the 1980s used as homophobic rants.

Then his sidekick and he did an insulting bit of banter where the sidekicked "camped it up" and started talking in an affected lisp. This was followed up by Senator Joe Biden laughing "good naturedly" at all sorts of homophobic banter about how dreadful "m4m" was, and interjections from the side about "I think he can take that. . . ha ha ha."

Towards the end of the session, one of them (I cannot remember who) started saying that "Karl Rove is Gannon's girlfriend."

And we're arguing homophobia isn't a problem amongst a lot of progressives?!? The whole prevailing air of this wretched show was "we're liberal Democrats so we can crack homophobic jokes." Had the session been done similarly using stereotypes about blacks or Jews, Maher would have been cut off, mid-show, and fired on the spot.

[Hans Delbrook]

1. I've often felt he was more about puffing up himself

than he is about standing up for any "principle." I didn't see the bit (I stopped watching him long ago) but it sounds like a disgrace. And yes, if it was another group there would be howls of outrage.

[applegrove]

2. I think that when someone like Rove uses hatred towards Gays as

much as he has - it is okay to skewer him with it. Comedians are not news reporters after all. They are not supposed to be fair or balanced. They are just supposed to 'hit certain truthes'. I didn't see the show but if you don't make it really hurt the Republicans what is to stop them from hiring a 'hustler' and 'putting him in journalism school' and 'building up a news organization to give him cover' and then having your their own mole - again? Gerbil 'hurts'. It was meant to. As the truth often does.

[Brian_Expat]

5. You don't skewer anti-gay people. . .

. . . by using anti-gay rhetoric.

The entire segment was offensive, patronising and hateful. Anyone watching it who didn't know much about gays would have had all their old negative stereotypes about gays reinforced, as the primary aim of the segment was slamming "Gannon" for being gay (and using anti-gay "jokes" to pin shame on Bush and Co.)

[applegrove]

8. Granted didn't see it on t.v. The word gerbil does have some power though

If from here on in if we call Rove's 'plants': "gerbils" - would you have a problem with that? Tough language. But again I didn't see it.

[Brian_Expat]

9. "Tough language". . .

. . . that originates from an old anti-gay joke punchline that gay men insert gerbils in their rectums.

"Liberals" are supposed to be better than that.

[applegrove]

60. I believe it wasn't a joke. It was a passtime and a cruel and sadistic one

for some weird people. There are weirdos willing to experiment with just about anything for a thrill. Your average gay person does not equate themselves with 'gerbilling' as an intellectual pal of mine called it (he read about it). So don't worry. You are only offending people in the White House - and that is okay!

[Dookus]

74. There is NO evidence

that anybody ever engaged in such a practice.

[applegrove]

75. Okay so it is an urban myth. It is an urban myth involving weirdos then -

and that is not the same thing with being gay!!

[renaissanceguy]

47. Those who think the problem is his being gay

completely miss the point. The point is his HYPOCRISY and LIES. If they want to slam an antigay activist because he is really gay, so be it. But don't attack him on his being gay; attack him on his internalized homophobia and outright hypocrisy.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14744291

[foreigncorrespondent]

13. Excuse me...

...but a straight man does not have the right to use anti gay rhetoric to wards someone who is anti gay. Two negatives do not make a right.

All this kind of behavior does is make the left look like a bunch of moronic idiots.

We say we stand for equality for all, yet it is ok to use something that doesn't represent equality for all to insult? I'm sorry, but that is insulting to me, to all the queers here at DU, and to the LGBTIQQ community around the world.

[readmoreoften]

34. Yeah 'gerbil' hurts, but it cuts both ways

It is an insult to Gannon and to gay men and it should not be tolerated.

Using the *N* word would be an insult to Alan Keyes, but also to every Black American.

[ret5hd]

3. hmmm...calling a panel of people that includes robin williams...

homophobic is...well...i cant think of a term right now. silly comes to mind, but doesnt quite fit.

edit:typo

[Brian_Expat]

4. Robin Williams' comments were offensive too

The whole affair was completely patronising in the EXTREME. If Maher had cracked jokes about "honkeys" and "cornbread" during a clip on Armstrong Williams, and Robin Williams had faked a ghetto accent several times and talked about "the black community," Maher would have been fired immediately.

Even if someone popped up and said that "calling a panel of people that includes Robin Williams racist is silly."

[ret5hd]

10. wonder why you left out the fact that williams was on the panel in the OP?

It wouldn't be because it didnt help your argument would it?

[Brian_Expat]

16. Why would Williams "hurt" my argument?

Williams was the (publically heterosexual) sidekick I was referring to in the original message.

[Dookus]

22. Actually

Robin Williams often fakes a "ghetto accent". He even did it on Maher last night. I haven't seen any calls for Maher's firing.

[Brian_Expat]

37. So it's OK for him to be racist AND homophobic?

Just because he's a liberal?

Yikes.

[Dookus]

50. Yet again

like clockwork, you read things that aren't in my post.

I simply rebutted your assertion that if Williams had done a ghetto-accent, there would be a flood of demands for Maher to be fired.

Williams did. There is no uproar. That is all.

[mitchtv]

52. Oh Puleeeaze, I thought it was funny

Bill is hardly Homphpbic or racist, neither is Robin Williams.

[ronnykmarshall]

111. Well Mitch I hate to break this to you ....

But when I lived in San Francisco, Robin Williams lived in Castro. We used to see him with the kids in the 'hood from time to time. He always had surgical masks on them and would spray lysol around them to get rid of the all the "gay coodies". It was very upsetting.

[sonicx]

61. um, it's not racist...

Robin Williams does accents for everybody. He's just being silly.

[Brian_Expat]

83. It's not racist to promote stereotypes about blacks?

Good Lord.

I guess if it makes a white guy who fancies himself a "liberal" laugh, than it's not a racist thing. . . because the white "liberal" doesn't want to consider the fact that finding racial stereotypes amusing isn't exactly the most liberal thing.

Ditto with homophobia. People who laugh at gerbil jokes and characterisations of gays using 1980s stereotypes are innately amused by those stereotypes and the idea that gay men represent those stereotypes.

John Stewart was able to very deftly and funnily cut through the Gannon issue without gerbil jokes and affected fake accents that promote stereotypes, so such offensive and crude behaviour isn't even all that necessary to make things "funny" or "witty."

[sonicx]

97. Why stuck on the black thing?

like I said, Robin has accents for everyone. What about the feelings of other groups?

btw, i could care less that Robin's a liberal. I lol at South Park and Team America, and those guys are libertarians.

BTW, did you miss the parts where John Stewart joked repeatedly about Gannon giving Bush a reach-around?

and the quote..."His profile says "He's strictly a 'top.'" And as you know, it's not gay if you're the guy."

[HEyHEY]

118. Is anything funny to you?

Honest question, do you ever laugh cause usually humour is at the expense of something.

[sonicx]

27. Robin Williams does a fake ghetto accent all the time...

He did it on Ellen's show when addressing Ellen's black DJ.

i've never heard anyone complain about it.

[ronnykmarshall]

108. Ever see Eddie Murphy ...

do his "white guy" act?

It's a riot!

[Warpy]

6. Well, in the first place, progessives know that Maher is

a libertarian who gets it wrong as often as he gets it right, so you're out of line right off the bat.

In the second place, this is about hoisting the right on its own homophobic petard. Who cares what Maher says or does, although his line about Guckert's ad being top only, "I guess it's not gay if yer the GUY" was pretty funny.

Being black or Jewish isn't against the law, much to the consternation of the far right. However, being a hustler IS against the law, and therein lies a very big difference. Gannon/Guckert pretty much set himself up as a blackmail magnet with that alias.

And that is the problem. The fact that the most publicly homophobic administration in recent memory wanted this guy to shill for them so badly that they got him past the background check with his alias intact means that they are very vulnerable.

So expect the left to use it. All of it.

[Brian_Expat]

7. You're a bit confused

Guckert's ad being top only, "I guess it's not gay if yer the GUY" was pretty funny.

That was Jon Stewart from the Daily Show, not Bill Maher, and I think Stewart's segment was very funny and tasteful.

Being black or Jewish isn't against the law, much to the consternation of the far right. However, being a hustler IS against the law, and therein lies a very big difference.

Bill Maher wasn't cracking whore jokes. He was cracking gay jokes about gerbils and "gay accents" and how "those people" meet up. It was the sort of thing you'd expect from a middle-school locker room or the Rush Limbaugh show.

expect the left to use it. All of it.

And even further undermine their credibility as advocates of equal rights and dignity for gay people in the process? Brilliant!

[puddycat]

11. oh stop it! it wasn't homophobic, just insensitive

this continuing accusation of "homophobic" against anyone who doesn't walk the walk and repeat pro-gay talking points is counter-productive.

I'm telling ya, this kind of crap doesn't work anymore, and it won't win any friends, and just alienates left, right, and middle. Hell, not a week goes by that I don't read/experience/hear some highly insulting diatribe against my own personal description--fat, but I don't cross those the "perps" off my list forever because if I did, there would hardly be anyone left!

[papau]

14. Amen :-)

:-)

[foreigncorrespondent]

15. NO you stop it!

This is the second time I have come across your posts which end up equating to nothing more than "oh who is more discriminated against."

Discrimination comes in many forms. Not one of those forms is right. When someone on the left uses a negative slur using one of those forms of discrimination all they are doing is slinking to the lows of those idiots on the reich wing.

The left is meant to be much better than that!

On edit: BTW I have seen many insulting posts directed at obese people in my time here on DU, and each time I have chimed in and told them that they are nothing but insensitive for doing that.

[Brian_Expat]

18. You get the gold star today

Discrimination comes in many forms. Not one of those forms is right. When someone on the left uses a negative slur using one of those forms of discrimination all they are doing is slinking to the lows of those idiots on the reich wing.

That's exactly right. Homophobia is wrong no matter who does it -- just like racism, sexism, anti-semitism, etc.

[puddycat]

25. We have to be more forgiving of mistakes, not less

Thanks for defending fat people--but that is not the point.
the point is, that liberals, if we want to stop this rising tide of fascism in America, have to be willing to reach out to more people. We can't let one-issue alienate so many possible voters. The gay issue is a good example. Just because I don't step in tune with all the pro-gay talking points some liberals want to skewer me--I know that. I know perfectly well what I have to say pisses some people off. And SO WHAT? somebody has to tell some of the elitists what the hell is happening--we have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Everyone has to march to carefully proscribed talking points or else! Many liberals need to get a clue. People are people--they say hurtful things sometimes, but they are still mostly good, decent individuals that we should try to win over to vote our way. For far far too long the left of center has forsaken many of people that we could get on our side easily by a little effort, understanding and forgiveness. (by the way, I think its rather sad that some people beat me up over my viewpoint on the gay issues, because my conservative friends think I'm waaaaay too liberal on the subject, knowing that I'm in favor of gay marriage. Talk about a catch-22. Its simply a game I'm not willing to play. Some gays don't believe you're an ally unless you are willing to wear a "I'm a lesbian" tee shirt, and I'm tired of those types of childish games when our country's future is at stake)

I am afraid of this creeping fascist right-wing nutjob government, and that is my priority. To win back the Presidency, the Congress, and our country, we need to open up a little and not be so damn constipated. And maybe, just maybe, our gay friends could win over a few friends if they would admit that even if we aren't willing to wear your tee shirts, that we aren't your sworn enemy.

[readmoreoften]

35. So, let me get this straight

you're a straight woman in a gay forum telling gay people to lighten up about homophobic remarks and that we should get over it and that you're our ally and that you understand what it's like to be us because you're oppressed because you're 'fat'... and you don't let yourself get upset over fat jokes so we shouldn't get upset when people on national television make fun of us.

"Some gays don't believe you're an ally unless you are willing to wear a "I'm a lesbian" tee shirt, and I'm tired of those types of childish games when our country's future is at stake"

What are you even talking about? I mean, I don't even know what you're talking about??? Wear an 'I'm a lesbian t-shirt?' If you're not a lesbian why would GLBT people want you wearing this?

We're making you play 'childish games'? Are we *distracting* you with our 'childish games' of wanting to not be DEMONIZED? Is THAT what's jeopardizing the future of our country?

What are you saying exactly?

[foreigncorrespondent]

45. Look...

...blaming the queer community for Bush*s "wins" in such a round about way isn't gonna cut it. Neither is it going to resolve the fact that in 2000 Bush* was SELECTED not elected to being the POTUS. Nor is it going to change the fact that there were many discrepancies in the '04 election.

The LGBTIQQ community has sacrificed a lot over the years for votes for the Democratic party, tell me, what have obese people sacrificed in the name of an election win for the Democrats in the last say 20 years?

You see what I am saying here?

Basically, we have sacrificed too much already. When the issue of gay marriage came up it wasn't because of some queers happening to file suit against the Federal government over DoMA, it happened because thew reich wing declared war on us. Now instead of the left standing by us, we had many tell us to just remain seated at the back of the bus and not say a word. Come on? If this was something concerning fat people, would you sit at the back of the bus? I am quite doubtful you would.

When someone declares war on you, you do what ever it takes to defend your right, and your honor.

By the way, it isn't just your country that is at stake here. The whole world is at stake.

And I don't ask you to wear a damn t-shirt. I ask for simple respect!

[UncleSepp]

46. Now don't get all uppity there, FC ;-)

Who do you think you are to get offended when a straight woman of size has told you her opinion? Remember, the community of fluffy persons has had a hard road to walk. Remember when sex between consenting generously proportioned adults was illegal? Remember when the differently weighted could not legally adopt? oh. Well, of course we all remember those dark days when two loving big and beautiful people couldn't marry. No wait. Remember when you were likely to be beaten up just for being larger than most... oh, wait, that makes NO sense, nevermind.

I'm trying really hard here to remember the fat civil rights movement, the fat riots at the fat bars when the fat people got tired of the police coming in to arrest them for being fat. I'm racking my brains for the last time I heard a TV preacher telling his flock that fat is the work of Satan, that fat people are coming to stuff Twinkies down their kids' throats, that Fat frickin' Albert is part of the liberal conspiracy to make their children FAT. Ya know what? I am having a really freaking hard time here. Help me out, somebody. The history of FAT discrimination must be SO HORRIBLE that it's been hidden from view still. Oh the humanity, all throughout history. The untold numbers of the FAT who suffered and died in German concentration camps with big f-ing pink F's sewed to their I'm A Fatass shirts who still aren't honored at the ceremonies for the dead, who still are hardly spoken of in polite society or any society at all, who don't rate mention on monuments, whose image offends in schoolbooks, who were so thoroughly hated that even the other prisoners victimized them after the guards were through. Oh the ever-loving tragedy of it. How, oh how, foreigncorrespondent, could you possibly attempt to hold up the spats of a few fairies and dykes to the epic struggle of the large?

I'll take up a collection. I think this nice lady ought to have her I'm A Lesbian t-shirt, after all, preferably stuffed in her computer's air intake.

[foreigncorrespondent]

55. ROFL!

The trouble is, I am not a skinny minnie either, so I understand the shit obese people get. But that shit doesn't come close to the shit the LGBTIQQ community faces.

Love your post. It really had me laughing.

[readmoreoften]

58. LMAO n/t

[Misunderestimator]

63. "Some gays don't believe you're an ally unless you are willing to wear a

'I'm a lesbian' tee shirt..." :wtf:

Um... which "gays" are those? In all of my 42 years I have never met
a single gay person who would expect a straight person to do that, or
to do anything remotely like that, or to do anything even
euphemistically like that. Or did you just pick that little gem up
from Modem_Butterly who related an experience from her past in which
she wore that t-shirt to represent her support. If you think that gay
people "expect" that kind of championship from straight people, you
are sorely mistaken. It is extremely appreciated when it happens though.

And, what, pray tell, are the "pro-gay talking points" you are against
that liberals "skewer" you for?

[arwalden]

64. Huh? Which "Pro-gay talking points" Are You Referring To?

What part of my equality do you not "step-in-tune-with"?

You say that you're IN FAVOR of equal protections and benefits and that you support same-sex marriage. That's a big one! Thanks for your support.

But you can't *simultaneously* claim that you support equality for gays and lesbians, BUT that you'd prefer it if we would just sit-down-and-shut-up about it because it risks "alienating" potential voters. :eyes:

Well, actually, I suppose you CAN do that... it's physically possible to do that... BUT it would be hypocritical to do so.

[renaissanceguy]

48. THANK YOU!

It's the same argument as "who is more prejudiced against, blacks or gays? Well, gays don't deserve civil rights because they weren't slaves."

I would hope that by now, we know better because we learned from past mistakes. ANY and ALL discrimination and bigotry is unacceptable. It doesn't matter whom it is directed toward.

I'm shocked that fellow progressives don't know any better.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.14741193

[foreigncorrespondent]

56. I am...

...just as shocked as you, my friend!

[Brian_Expat]

17. It's hypocrisy, really. . .

. . . I'm not willing to slam Republicans for doing the same things that Democrats do.

Either homophobic speech and characterisation of gay people as mincing lispy weak-wristed queens who shove gerbils up their asses and are looking for a "bulldog top" is acceptable, or it's bad.

Do you HONESTLY deny that if it was about blacks or Jews, or if it was a REPUBLICAN show about gay people, that there wouldn't be a massive shitstorm about it right now?

Come on.

This is a clear case of patronising by Democrats -- the same people who blamed us for the election loss and refused to stand up against the Republican anti-gay jihad are now claiming a "right" to be homophobic without criticism because they're liberals. That's bullshit.

[puddycat]

26. maybe we need to post the definition of "homophobic"

to me, what those people did was insensitive, but not in any way homophobic. I mean, I hear comedians diss fat people all the time, but not for one minute does it cross my mind they are afraid of fat people. That is what "phobic" means. It means Fear. I can't believe any of those people fear gayness. Its not like its catching or anything. I fear the flu. I don't fear gay. There is a big difference.

If liberals can't start to live with little hurts, and forgive, and understand, then how are we going to reclaim this country? If we have a litmus test of "perfection" for everyone then we are in deep trouble.

So, although I absolutely refuse to wear a stupid "I'm a lesbian" tee-shirt to prove I'm a sister at heart, I'll be sure to vote for gay marriage. And if I like you, you are welcome in my home any time. If that's not good enough, too bad.

[readmoreoften]

36. I don't want you to wear an "I'm a lesbian t-shirt"

that would be as offensive as me wearing an 'i'm a fat person' t-shirt. (although I'm not terribly skinny, so the joke might be lost)

Little hurts, huh? Let's explain the basic difference between prejudice against fat people and prejudice against queers. When people are hurtful and make fun of overweight people, they are saying that they are lacking moral self-control and that they are lazy. This is rude and wrong and most overweight people struggle terribly with living in a world that demands certain beauty standards.

But no one is saying that you are so morally ill that you are not fit to be near children... to even be mentioned to children... or described to them. The Republican Party of Texas has published a platform that states that if homosexuals get beaten up or abused, it is to be expected because they 'ask for it' by 'flaunting' their gender non-conformity all over the place. As long as it doesn't lead to murder, then the government has no place in protecting homosexuals.

The Republican Party of Texas does not support beating and abusing overweight children, as far as I know.

Insinuating that fat people are lazy and eat too much is wrong... both morally and factually.
Insinuating that gay men stick rats up their asses makes them into psychopathic subhuman demons... and such demonizations are politically very very bad.

[Brian_Expat]

38. The definition of homophobic is pretty easy

It's anything designed to demonize or marginalize gay people.

If liberals can't start to live with little hurts, and forgive, and understand, then how are we going to reclaim this country

Pardon me, but I would expect my liberal "allies" not to be the hurters or the people to "forgive." Especially since they (like you for instance) haven't exactly been the most understanding in the recent past.

[foreigncorrespondent]

12. Brian...

...when I was in the U.S. I caught a lot of Maher on TV. I always throught he was a real twit. And thought how degrading it progressives follow him. Is that the kind of person we want to follow? Quite frankly I think anyone with a brain should tell him to bugger off. That his homophobic tones are not funny, and just because he is progressive, it doesn't give him the right to be homophobic.

Now I Live here and thankfully we don't get his bullshit on TV.

[Last Lemming]

19. It seems that Maher has torn the scab off

a wound we thought had long ago healed.

[Brian_Expat]

20. It ground me the wrong way. . .

. . . because Maher and all those establishment types -- Stahl, for instance and Democrats like Biden -- ran screaming from standing up for us ONCE in the 2004 election. But now they're demanding dispensation to crack gay jokes from the 1980s to mock a Republican -- all the while insisting they "don't really mean it" because they're Democrats.

Well that's crap. Actions speak louder than words and these guys have taken actions showing they don't believe the words in their political platforms, and now they're even speaking words that sound like something I'd hear on Bob Dornan's radio show or the Rush Limbaugh hour.

[GoMrGordon]

21. I thought his show was funny

Maybe not all of it, but it was typical Maher.

[Langley85]

23. Bill Maher is an idiot. Nuff said.

[Dookus]

24. I didn't find it homophobic...

just a little juvenile. But I don't expect comedians to be politically correct. In fact, Maher is very decidedly not politically correct - remember his old show? Gee... what was the title again?

[Brian_Expat]

39. So as long as someone announces the intention to be politically incorrect,

it's A-OK to be racist, sexist and homophobic? Fab!

[Dookus]

51. Your oversimplification

misses the point, as usual.

If I thought Bill Maher or Robin Williams were homophobes, I'd agree with you. But I think they're comedians, and a comedian who is bound to "political correctness" is unlikely to make it very far. Making a gay joke is not the same thing as being a homophobe.

[mitchtv]

53. I agree I thought it was funny

then again I have a thick skin. I thought the gerbil line was hysterical( Ithought it was a richard Gere joke)

[ronnykmarshall]

107. I do too.

Thank god. I could only imagine what a complete "PC" approved progam might look like.

Booooooooorrrrrrring!

[Maat]

28. I'd be able to comment, but I stopped watching Maher long ago.

He puts down women virtually every chance he gets, and seems to think that they exist simply to sexually service him. The only woman that I know of that he has any respect for is that blowhard and tweaker-act-alike Ann Coulter. He certainly doesn't think that a woman like myself should waste any time on education, especially math and science.

And he is no progressive. If anything, he is a libertarian.

I was not aware of that offensive material. I'm sorry you wound up suffering through it. He's not funny, and he certainly doesn't enlighten me as to anything.

And he seems pro-war.

[Guy Fawkes]

29. I have found one difference between Maher and O'Reilly...

and that is: people here hate O'Reilly openly.

[Liberal Veteran]

30. Much ado about nothing much.

I'm much more concerned with people out there who are really going out of their way to be hurtful. A progressive comedian picking at Gannon (or whatever the hell he calls himself this week) is so far off my radar of things to get offended about, it doesn't even register.

I'll save my outrage for better targets.

[Brian_Expat]

43. So progressive homophobia is A-OK, as long as the target is rightwing? n/t

[KaliTracy]

31. I can see your point in a way -- but he slammed females pretty much

when telling about the woman who felt "sick and about to black out" --acting like a "female" -- He DID say in his "New Rules" that there should be no legislation to who marries who and that the constitution should not be ammended -- did you catch that?

[Brian_Expat]

40. It's easy for him to make policy statements that require no action. . .

. . . and if he's been sexist and racist as has been alleged on this forum, he should be brought to account for that as well.

My main beef is that so many people are willing to give him a free ride because he's a "liberal," but if a conservative did the SAME EXACT THING, it would be a scandal of the century.

[KaliTracy]

44. It's possible he's a libertarian more than a liberal. I just saw the

beginning of the show (had come in at the end of it on Friday when Biden was talking) - and frankly, he's a comedian, they all go to the edge of one sort or another in order to shake up people. I'm not saying I agree with what he does 100%, but I don't agree with any comedian (or commentator) 100% -- and I doubt anyone would agree with me 100%.

I'm a bit confused here -- later in the show he blames Hate Radio for the killing of Matthew Shepard, and how it's one crazy listening to the vile that these regular commentators do on a daily basis starts to believe that the garbage they spit out is true and that it is "their duty" to rid the world of..... gays, blacks, Muslims, whoever the group in the spotlight is in.

I didn't see homophobia when he brought this up -- I saw him trying to bring to the forefront that people are being killed because of the extreme belief of others. And as I said before, in his New Rules, he stated that there should be No Change in the Constitution, and that people should marry who they want.

The Conservatives Do have their mouth pieces against homosexuality, as well as gender and race issues, and they spew out their garbage on a daily basis and not enough people are taking their regular commentary to task.

I'm not trying to minimize the feelings of the original poster -- obviously, what he felt and experienced is important. Just trying to give an overall context to the entire hour of the show.



on edit: clarity

[arwalden]

32. Ennnhhh

:shrug: Who cares? :shrug:

[Brian_Expat]

41. I guess you only care if. . .

. . . homophobia annoys you.

The gay community spend millions of hours and dollars to "Stop Dr. Laura," but Maher is happening right under our noses and it's "no big deal."

[arwalden]

49. If It Was ACTUALLY Homophobia, Then I'd Care...

... that's why I *don't* care. It's all in your head.

[Brian_Expat]

65. I will remember that comment next time you post

"Homophobia is all in your head." Nice.

[arwalden]

70. No. You Are Incorrect. You Have Misquoted Me.

>> I will remember that comment next time you post <<
>> "Homophobia is all in your head." Nice.<<

You should know that what I actually said does not match what you're "quoting" me as having said. And if you decide to claim that you were "paraphrasing" my words, even THAT doesn't come close to what I said.

I think it's intellectually dishonest for anyone to suggest that I believe that (all) homophobia is imagined. But in this case, with Maher, it's so clearly not what you're making it out to be.

The evil villain and bogeyman you see simply doesn't exist. :eyes:

[Brian_Expat]

84. Nah, I captured the message perfectly.

Homophobia doesn't exist unless arwalden thinks it qualifies. Thus any homophobia that isn't qualified first by arwalden is all in my head.

[arwalden]

88. Good Grief!

When you start posting juvenile responses, then we've reached an impasse.

[jpgray]

112. Based on your inability to read and interpret English in arwalden's post

Maybe you have a similar inability to identify something like homophobia accurately? I'd wager 100% of DU would agree that you misquoted the poster above--it seems more like you are looking for an argument than anything else.

[Kire]

33. Bill Maher has a sidekick?

Is his name Robin Williams? I just hate it when he does that lisp.

[Brian_Expat]

42. Yes and yes! n/t

[Kire]

76. I missed the beginning.

Is Robin Williams really the sidekick for this season (and hopefully upcoming ones)? That sounds odd, but also really awesome!

[arwalden]

79. How Do You React When Other Actors Such As Nathan Lane or Hank Azzaria...

when they play characters that perpetrate the stereotype of the swishy gay effeminate male. What's your reaction to Jack McFarland on Will & Grace?

[Brian_Expat]

85. They're playing a character. . .

. . . not talking about a real life situation where gay men were involved and suggesting that necessitates a gerbil being inserted into someone's rectum.

As for "Will and Grace," that show sucks and is offensive only in the idea that it's amusing or good TV.

[arwalden]

89. It's All Fiction

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

Since you are so talented at turning molehills into mountains,

is there anything you can do about the Sierra snowpack? We're having serious problems with the water supply in southern California.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

71. Since Maher didn't say either, it is clear that you are exaggerating

as what he actually said doesn't fuel a flame war sufficiently. Everyday on this board, you defend religion which said and does far worse.

[Brian_Expat]

82. Um, Maher did say both things

Although when I said it, my message was immediately deleted.

So it's OK for a heterosexual man to make gerbil jokes, talk about "queers" and "m4m types," and it's humour and art. But if a gay man says it on a liberal board to illustrate the concept, his message is immediately deleted for being "inappropriate."

Why?

Because it's homophobia either way. The fact that my message was deleted is ipso facto proof of that simple truth. People are just thinking up ex-post-facto reasons why homophobia is "no big deal" when it's their political friends doing it, rather than their foes, when the truth is that it's NEVER acceptable.

[arwalden]

91. Your Message Broke DU Rules Because It Was A Personal Attack...

... against another DUer. That's pretty simple.

Your standard of what qualifies as "proof" is pretty damned low.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

92. Rewatch the tape. When Maher MAKES the gerbil comment

he immediately apologizes, therefore I would suggest Maher was NOT intending to be homophobic.

Again, you are SO intent on defending religion when religion does far worse than a comedian who is on our side.

If there's anything that FATIGUES me about your battles, it's the selection process of them...you'll fight with US as though we HATE religion for teaching hatred of US, you knocked John Kerry throughout the primaries for supporting civil unions although if we attacked his religion, you'd really have a dilemma on your hands, then you slam Bill Maher for making a wise crack intended for the recipient (Gannon) who happens to be a vile ass. Maher also made the crack to the effect of "one was the worst kind of slime, the other a prostitute"..is he "pressophobic" too?

The M4M comment would not have been made but for the fact that Guckert/Gannon USED it...Maher did not pull it out of whole cloth.

Oh and on your deleted reply to me...nice try :thumbsdown:

You weren't being demonstrative of a point...you were being something, but I will refrain from naming it.


Therefore, while homophobia IS indeed a valid concern with this story, BLATHERING ON AND ON AND ON about it when someone FINALLY gives the story the serious attention it deserves really effects nothing.

[davidinalameda]

98. water supply?

if anything, SoCal has too much water right now

[ronnykmarshall]

114. I just spit water!

That was beautiful!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

54. edited..dupe

[newsguyatl]

57. i completely agree with you

saw it all today with a provided link, and had the exact same reservations...

sorry you've gotten such shit on here from other supposed "progressives" ... actually, i'm really not surprised by them... unfortunately, many here aren't quite able to see the forest for the trees.

but i certainly do.

[mitchtv]

59. well I am not a "progressive", and please don't call me one.

I am a liberal and proud of it . If you can't laugh at yourself, you are the one with the problem.It is, after all, a comedy show. I found nothing homophobic about it, not always funny, but it beats Leno.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brian_Expat]

67. It is not laughing at oneself

It IS using homophobia against Repubicans though and undermines every criticism of homophobia from Reps by Democrats.

[Ian David]

68. One should cut an ally more slack than an enemy

IMHO, they were merely using the other side's homophobic stereotypes against them.

If the head of the new straight guy in charge of HRC (even in jest) uses the word "fag," it is a lot different from when Fred Phelps uses it.

[arwalden]

69. As Limbaugh Says: "Illustrating Absurdity By Being Absurd"

>> IMHO, they were merely using the other side's homophobic stereotypes against them. <<

Very logical observation.

Perhaps it's time to quit playing by some "quaint" rules that continually put us at a disadvantage, and start using more cutthroat tactics that make our enemies so successful.

It's stupid to keep playing by the rules when we know that the other side is cheating and when we are impotent to force them to play fair. Being nice for its own sake and playing fair as its own reward is idiotic.

-- Allen

[Brian_Expat]

87. I choose not to rely on Rush Limbaugh for rhetorical advice. n/t

[arwalden]

90. Well... That Certainly Explains A Lot.

[Brian_Expat]

86. But it's not different

Homophobia is homophobia. Using homophobia as a political tool perpetuates the climate that allows it to take root in new minds.

Communicating the idea that someone is horrible and gerbil-stuffing because they're gay men, even in "jest" or from an "ally," continues to leverage, communicate and VALIDATE the notion that gay is bad, inferior, wrong, sick, perverted, etc.

[Liberal Veteran]

100. Choose you battles wisely.

There's a gaping hole in the bottom of the boat and while the rest of us are bailing water to prevent us from sinking, you want us to stop and focus on the fact that a seagull just shit on the deck.

That's how I see this.

Let's worry about things that REALLY matter instead of attacking people who are actually on our side.

[KaliTracy]

77. see post #44. I think the context of the entire hour is something to be

taken into consideration.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

73. cause I was one of those disagreeing with OP

that Bill maher had a homphobic 'rant" , because of a few gay jokes.It sure sounded like I was one of the'so called progressives'."progressive" is generally thought to include 'liberals'(those who haven't let the pukes bully them out of the term).

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchtv]

95. Sorry I missed it

I always miss the good ones

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

103. Please direct questions regarding deleted posts to the -

Ask The Administrators Forum.

[ronnykmarshall]

110. Well THAT explains it!

:silly:

[big peaches]

115. Love the Patsy avatar, sweetie

[ronnykmarshall]

116. Right, cheers, thanks alot!

[Placebo]

78. I'm gay and I make gay jokes all the time...

I also call gay people faggots. Do I care? No. And I couldn't care less if some straight person makes a joke about gay people as long as I don't think they actually believe what they're saying.

Sheesh, some people need to learn to LIGHTEN UP. :eyes:

[Brian_Expat]

81. Try calling me a "faggot" sometime. . .

. . . just make sure you're out of my arm's range. :)

And even if you want to take that argument. . .

Straight people calling gays "faggots" is like whites referring to blacks as "niggers" and then claiming it's OK because some black music stars use that word.

Although I'm convinced that most gay men who refer to other gay men as "faggots" or "she" are doing so out of intense internalised homophobia (and not a small bit of internalised misogyny too).

LIGHTEN UP

Sounds like what most straight white guys say after taking the piss out of the gay man and creating a hostile climate. It's the ultimate in passive aggression.

It's simple -- you either believe in equality and dignity for gay people, or you don't. "Joking" in such a way is simply an indicator of the latter persuasion, wrapped up in a passive-aggressive excuse of "hey dude, I was only joking."

[Placebo]

93. I have no "internalized homophobia"...

and have never referred to a gay man as "she", don't put words in my mouth.

I also refer to my girl friends, of which I have many, affectionately as "bitches" but treat them like they or anyone else deserves to be treated: with great respect and kindness. It's a friendly thing, which you obviously don't understand. I also say things like "Yeah, he's a fag and a half" referring to gay men who are flaming, but do I treat them badly? No. Because those are just words.

How can you define the belief of equality and dignity for gay people through the strict terms of verbal jokes and slang terms? Actions speak louder than words, you know. Your wannabe psycho-babble doesn't impress me and couldn't be more off kilter.

[ronnykmarshall]

109. Oh Miss Thang QUIT!!!

:silly:

[BR_Parkway]

94. I'm sorry you were offended, I saw it and thought it was funny

I'm sorry that my partner, an emergency room physician, has actually removed a gerbil (and other things) from peoples (its not just a gay thing) asses

I'm sorry that the fact of the matter is still that there is enough actual behavior to create a stereotype in the first place, where people have an almost universal recognition of what someone is referring to - even though I think it is wrong to classify any entire group of people according to any stereotype, I also know that there are some people in any group who live up to it and more.

I'm sorry that you don't know the difference between homophobic (being afraid of homosexuals) and gay bashing (acting or saying negative things about gays)

I'm sorry that there are apparent "levels" of equality in your book - while screaming loudly for all gays to be treated equal, it's not ok for str8's to make the same jokes, str8's have to be held to a different standard. And while everyone is supposed to celebrate your diversity, they're all supposed to conform to your ideal of what is appropriate to say. I can't connect those two. I want to be me, I want respect and tolerance - which means I have to give respect and tolerance.

Mostly I'm sorry that you seem to lack the ability to laugh a little at things in life, it must be a sad existence. I laughed my ass off at Williams knocking on the desk while camping "Karl, open the door". I thought the gerbil joke was funny, if that makes me a bad gay guy, oh well.

I'm thinking that just like some straight guys are totally creeped out around gays because they aren't that comfortable with who they are versus the straight guys who are very secure and don't have any issues - I also know several gay guys who are always seeing every slightest thing as an "attack" and fortunately more guys who are quite comfortable with both gays and straights making gay jokes.

Feel free to flame it, it's only my opinion - and fortunately we all don't have to have the same one

[mitchtv]

96. no flame from me BR

I thought it was a very good episode and look foward to more. No Bill does not coddle gays and I often think he gets it wrong and I get angry at him. But he can be funny.I fought this battle many years ago in the 70's and now reserve my indignance for real slights.

[ronnykmarshall]

113. I grew up in farm country and I've seen compost heaps.

But this one is the biggest!


Although I'm convinced that most gay men who refer to other gay men as "faggots" or "she" are doing so out of intense internalised homophobia (and not a small bit of internalised misogyny too).

[arwalden]

119. Threads Like This One...

... serve only to create division in our community (on this forum) and to divert our attention away from the more important issues.

[Liberal Veteran]

99. I'll save my outrage for something a bit more substansial.

A comedian making a joke that rubs some people the wrong way? Next up I expect someone to report the sky is blue or that water is wet.

Maher has stated unequivocably that he supports gay rights and gay marriage.

It would be a waste of time and effort to put any energy toward being outraged over this. I'll spend my time and energy focusing on the people who are trying to drive us into the closet.

[sundog]

101. Bit of advice- if Bill Maher offends you, never watch a Margaret Cho video

[ronnykmarshall]

117. Margret ROCKS!

I love when she imitates her mother.

[union_maid]

104. I don't really like Maher, but he has been pro-gay when he's serious

He annoys the hell out of me and I think the worst thing about him is that he's set himself up as an opposition comedian and he doesn't really have a lot of deep insight into issues, unlike Jon Stewart who can discuss anything with anyone. I don't think that Bill Maher is a tenth as smart as he thinks he is.

However, in fairness, one of the things that has really seemed to piss him off about the right is homophobia and opposition to gay marriage, about which he's made some decent points in the past year.

When it comes to the Gannon/Guckert debacle, I think it's fair to say that his jokes were more satirical and pointed at the homophobic right, rather than being out and out homophobic in and of themselves. It gets to be a fine line in a situation like this. It's all about homosexuality because of the way the Bushistas have used real homophobia as a marketing tool and worse. They need to be hoisted on their own petards. Their eight inch, cut, petards. The God Hates Fags crowd has to be made to understand that they won't find any real champions for their despicable causes in mainstream politics. All they've found in the Bush crowd is people who are more than willing to use their hate and fear for their own ends, which is just power.

[KnowerOfLogic]

105. Maher has admitted point blank that he is homophobic; saw it

myself on his old show "Politically Incorrect." He also has a slight anti-female bias, and of course the two go hand in hand. He's definitely a mixed bag; sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong.

[Jamastiene]

106. Don't be so touchy

I can think of way worse things someone can say. Where I live they say much worse, like violent things. He's not homophobic. I don't think.