So GAY Du'ers.. How has the Alerting been working out?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

we were told to use alert as we werent doing so as a community

So how has alerting on homophobes been working out for you guys?

This is a reference to skinners thread from months ago.

[ccharles000]

1. I never think to alert.

I don't know why.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

2. you should, if you see homophobia

per skinner

[ccharles000]

3. I will from now on.

I never thought it did any good.

[yardwork]

118. Alerting is the only hope for having a post deleted.

I've been a mod. We were so busy I never had time to read the boards myself. I was pretty much totally dependent on alerts to let me know when something bad was happening.

That said, there is definitely more tolerance for homophobia on this board than I would like. However, there is definitely more tolerance for homophobia in the U.S. than I would like. In that respect the mods are, unfortunately, a lot like the rest of the U.S. Most of them are very reasonable and progressive, but there are always a few who can't see anything wrong with certain posts.

Usually, when I alert on a homophobic post, I add a polite sentence asking the mods to consider how they would feel if the word "Jewish" or "black" appeared instead of "gay" or whatever the post said. That often works.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

85. yeah. that must be it.

[Clintonista2]

4. Mine must be broken

n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. as is mine. so what i do is break the rules. then the mods notice

for instance, i knwo that i alerted and so did a few other du'ers on the My sons are homophobes thread, but till i did a "call out" thread.. no one cared about the alerts.

happened a couple months ago too.

if you do a call out thread, they bother to lock the main thread.

[Book Lover]

5. Well, a post I alerted on yesterday

in the now-locked thread was removed, and the poster was TS'd, but did it really help? Is DU a better place now that mrsmojorising (not going back to check the spelling!) is gone? Someone else is just going to take her place...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. i remember atleast 3 people alerting on prroud father of homophobic children thread

and it didnt get locked, till i did a mocking thread of it.

[Raster]

17. the "proud father of homophobic children" thread??? Seriously?

You know, we Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender persons--and our friends--could take our balls, ovaries and other sexual parts AND OUR FUCKING CHECKBOOKS and go start our own little site. What would that leave? It would leave a colorless, gray, monotone Democratic Underground, much as our society would look and feel if all the GLBT persons and friends boarded the mothership and left the homophobes and their retarded children to fend for themselves.

Here's Raster's Get a Fucking Clue Time: Variances in human sexual orientation are a NATURAL part of the human condition, in other words, we are born this way. I am so fucking sorry that contradicts your religious beliefs and makes you feel all icky inside. DEAL WITH IT! They are your prejudices, you own them. We have been part of humanity for as long as there has been humanity. We are not foreign to the body homosapiens, we are part of said body. Your bigotry is, well, YOUR FUCKING PROBLEM. Get some counseling, learn to deal with it. It will be a better world for all.

[MuseRider]

109. As a friend

let me say that your post says it all. I don't want to live in that "colorless, gray, monotone society. I want all my friends around. There is more love and wonder and fun that way.

[Raster]

115. Bless Your Heart! Thank you.

May your life be filed with love and joy and wonder.

[Zuiderelle]

6. I alerted four or five times on that thread in GDP yesterday.

It was FINALLY locked after the OP alerted on it himself after I suggested he do that (thanks for that, by the way, if you're reading this.)

Last week I alerted numerous times on that unfrigginreal poster who was finally banned several days later.

So... my verdict is. Not really working.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. maybe skinner will admit that the alerting system on homophobes

little bit broken

[Book Lover]

9. *Something* is broken

And that's all I think I can say about that without getting *this* thread locked...

[yardwork]

119. It takes time for the mods to respond. They are all volunteers. Sometimes there are few working.

Consensus has to be reached before a thread is locked or a poster is banned. The mods always try to reach consensus even before deleting a post. If there happen to be only two or three mods volunteering at a particular time, they may not respond immediately. It doesn't mean that they don't approve. It doesn't mean that they're ignoring the alerts. It often means that they are busy.

I work full-time and I literally had to sneak time from work to mod. I went without sleep to mod at night. Some mods get up very early in the morning to mod. They're all volunteers.

[Duncan Grant]

11. Dozens of LGBT people need to apply to be mods.

That's the only way this is going to improve.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. after all the controversy we have caused? i doubt its going to work out in our favor

well especially mine. i have been especially bad.

[Duncan Grant]

23. I haven't been posting Emma Goldman quotes - have you?

:D

Let's apply anyway. All of us.

[yardwork]

120. It's true that starting disruptive threads and getting into fights with mods hurts our cause.

I hate to say this, but it's true so I'm going to say it anyway. The last time I was a mod, back in 2006, there were a small number of posters who caused a disproportionate amount of trouble. Most of them posted in the lounge most of the time, and, unfortunately, many of them self-identified as gay. It created a bad impression. I know that this isn't fair, but it happened. At the time I was a mod, there were at least three mods who were openly gay. All but maybe one or two other mods were very progressive and totally unbiased toward gay people. I detected a little bit of homophobia (nothing major, just a little bit) in only one or two mods. BUT the behavior of a few self-identified gay DUers made a lot of the mods angry.

I have no idea what the mods think now but I have a bad feeling that our reputation has preceded us, if you get my meaning.

[racaulk]

13. I have definitely considered doing just that. n/t

[Duncan Grant]

24. That would be great!

I'd endorse you but it would probably hurt your chances! :D

[xchrom]

14. hopefully -- off to the greatest page -- recommend. nt

[Jamastiene]

15. Rec #5 n/t

[FreeState]

16. I have about a 20% chance of homophobic comments being removed after an alert

wish it was faster when it did work and it was more consistent. I get very tiered of having to defend equality to others.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

20. i have been averaging zero

[Toasterlad]

47. Wrong Place Post. D'Oh!

[mitchtv]

18. Well,,,I got deleted for

defending one of our friends in a "gays should STFU" thread. Does that count?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. lol. in a way it does count.

[Duncan Grant]

32. No good deed goes unpunished, does it?

:hug:

[bettyellen]

21. i'm sure the rationale is that you can't be taken seriously because you're so sexy-

your're asking for it , don'tcha know! Didn't you get the memo Pri, were high neck collars and plain sensible pumps. Othewise you're a slut who doesn't deserve to roll with these high on the horse libs.

Being hot stuff has got to have a downside, and these puritanical homophobic and sexist Dems are going to try their best to make you feel bad about being you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. i love you betty ellen. you're really the best

:loveya:

[bettyellen]

45. not the best- just (sadly) better than quite a few here.

i do not like the shit that gets said here about women or GLBTs, it's horrendous.
i hate sara palin, but i hate the way people here think it's okay- funny even to call her a slut just because she's wearing red shoes? a tank top under her jacket makes her a porn star? jesus fuck, there are a lot of pigs here- with very juvenile views and the mods totally support them.
If I didn't already know and love some of the best people here, like you-I'd be so fucking out of here.

[Moloch]

22. I think the problem is that there is too much complaining...

its kind of like the boy who cried wolf...

When something that actually IS homophobic is posted, the mods are overwhelmed by the sheer volume of complaints.

[bettyellen]

26. actually there is "too much" complaining because mods ignore rules being broken

[racaulk]

27. So the problem isn't that there is too much offensive stuff being posted?

The problem is that too many of us are too easily offended. Got it.

:eyes:

I'm sorry, but when someone posts homophobic things like what I have seen (especially over the last week), the mods should be overwhelmed by complaints.

The tone of this, or any other, forum is set by those at the top. If those at the top had more of a "zero tolerance" policy in place for homophobia and transphobia (much like they do for racism), then some DUers wouldn't feel encouraged to make those comments at all. The solution has to come from the top, and when it doesn't, those of us on the bottom have the right to complain.

[Zuiderelle]

30. I think the problem is that there is a lot of homophobia and transphobia allowed to stay.

What have you ever labeled as homophobic? I'd be curious to see what it takes.

[Moloch]

33. That "my homophobic sons" thread crossed the line...

and I don't remember the exact title but it was after the VP debate and someone called us "queers" there's no excuse for that kind of thing.

[racaulk]

36. OK

But hearing your Pres and VP candidates say, on national television, that they believe "marriage is between one man and one woman" is just peachy.

Did you read what I said about "the tone at the top" upthread. It applies in this case as well.

[Moloch]

38. Does it really matter if its called marriage or civil unions?

as long as both grant the same rights? I certainly don't see any need to disparage the most pro-gay major party ticket ever over a simple disagreement in semantics.

At any rate.. I don't see what any of that has to do with this topic.

[LeftCoast]

44. Yes. It actually does matter.

As someone who has had both a civil union AND now marriage, I can tell you there is a difference. My husband and I signed a domestic partnership (CA's term for civil union) Jul '07. It gave us all the same legal rights as marriage, but legally it was more shaky. Court cases were regularly challenging various aspects of it. It was creating a parallel and 'mostly equal' system, but not fully equal. Once the CA Supreme Court ruled that denying marriage to gays and lesbians was illegal we got hitched. Not a huge difference, but now the legality is the same and it's been tested through decades of case law. It also feels different. For the first time I can really say, "I'm married".

[racaulk]

52. I bet you would have been a HOOT during the Jim Crow era!

"Do you have to use the same water fountain that white people use? That other one works just as well, what's the difference?"

"Why do you have to ride in the front of the bus? The seats in the back work just as well. You're on the bus, aren't you, so don't complain!"

"Why would you want to live in my neighborhood? There are other neighborhoods that are just as nice where you can be among your own people."

I recommend that you read up on the SCOTUS case Plessy v. Ferguson to understand why this matters. If both marriage and civil unions will extend the same rights, as you seem to believe, then why can't they be called the same thing? As long as politicians and their supporters (that means you) seem to be OK supporting the unconstitutional principle of "separate but equal," I will be there to argue that they need to be more progressive in their stance on the issue. Equality is a progressive position, dontcha know.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? I thought I explained that upthread, but perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Please allow me to elaborate. Here's why I think what I said is relevant:

Again, it's all about the tone at the top, and I was trying to draw a parallel between our Dem politicians and our admins and mods at DU. When we have politicians (and religious leaders) telling lies about GLBT people, saying that we're evil sinners that are going to Hell and are undeserving of equal rights under the law, guess what happens? If the masses are convinced that GLBT people are somehow less than they are, then they will start treating us as such. This opens the door to hate crimes and discrimination, where the perpetrators of those things feel justified in their bigotry because their leaders communicate to them, verbally and nonverbally, that it's OK to treat GLBT people differently. If we had a popular President that took a stand on full equality for GLBT people (including marriage), I fully believe that we will see sharp declines in hate crimes and discrimination across the board. I really think Obama has this potential, but he's just not living up to it. Maybe that will change when he's President, but he hasn't given me reason to be too hopeful of that possibility.

The same principle applies here at DU. If the mods and admins would just set a tone that discrimination and harassment of all kinds were not allowed here, and would snuff those especially egregious offenders, then we would see the incidents of homophobia here at DU take a sharp decline. In fact, if they had cracked down earlier on the "Mann Coulter" and other related transphobia, then perhaps you wouldn't have felt the need to post some of the hateful things you did in the past...nor would have have felt allowed to do so. I think these two scenarios are very similar and inextricably linked, which is why I brought up Obama and Biden in this subthread.

Furthermore, no one is disparaging the Obama/Biden ticket. I personally am STOKED about Obama being elected President, and IRL I'm working my butt off to make sure he gets there, by donating, canvassing, and on November 4, voting for him. I think he's going to do so many great things for our country, and I can't wait to see him get started! But just because I'm asking that he be more progressive about GLBT equality does not mean that I'm a traitor to the cause or that I'm secretly ushering in a McCain Administration. That's a stupid strawman argument, and I'm tired of hearing it. And I'm sorry that you buy into that.

So, damkira, you can call me a "loud mouthed malcontent" all you want. Your namecalling matters little to me. I think DU, and our Democratic Party, can take a much better stand on GLBT equality. BOTH can be better than they currently are, in my opinion. And much to your chagrin, I'm sure, I won't stop saying so.

One day in the future gay people will have the right to marry legally in this country, I'm convinced of that. When that day comes, I truly want you to sit back and enjoy the rest of your happy life with your husband. Just know, in the back of your mind, that people like me worked to make that possible, while you were busy giving cover to the bigots in our Party because they just happened to have a (D) after their names.

[Zuiderelle]

63. Though your post will be completely lost on damkira, it's a great post!

:thumbsup:

[racaulk]

72. Thank you, PF!

I just had to get that rant out.

:pals:

[Moloch]

95. Thank you for your very insightful and thoughtful post.

I still disagree that civil unions are "separate but equal" because I think straight people should be getting them to. Marriage is just a religious contract and, being an atheist, does not matter much to me personally.

It was very nice of you to take the time to lay out your position like that and I appreciate it.

[Book Lover]

97. Not to hijack this thread, but this atheist is *married*

Marriage existed long before religions got into the game. I am an atheist, and I am married.

[offog]

111. Hear, hear!

:toast: I'm a straight woman who passionately supports the cause. To me, homophobia is just as unacceptable as racism or any other form of bigotry. This "separate but equal" stuff does imply that GLBT people are "different" and therefore not part of mainstream society, and therefore it's okay to treat them as inferior.

I've had a membership at my local gay club for about 3 years now. I joined up partly on principal, because a local Member of Parliament had made some comments about how gays were out to take over the world. I was also looking for a place to hang out. Aside from sexual orientation or identity, GLBT people aren't that different from other people I know. In fact, the people I meet at the club are nicer than most. There's nothing I like nothing better than spending a Saturday night talking politics over beer with them.

[FreeState]

58. Its impossible for a civil union to grant the same rights as marriage because

a civil union is not a marriage - its separate and unequal both culturally and legally.

[Zuiderelle]

39. So, just those two instances? That's all the homophobia you've seen on DU?

[Moloch]

41. Recently, yes.

That "whats the deal with gay pride" thread was more ignorance than hatred.. and some of the other stuff people here are upset about just seems to be nitpicky. Obviously, calling someone a queer is homophobic and the thread the guy made about how great his homophobic sons are was incredibly insensitive. Other than that.. I can't say I've witnessed a lot of homophobia on DU recently.

[Zuiderelle]

42. Then you have an entirely different standard than I. You've seen only TWO threads that exhibited

homophobia in your estimation, and yet that doesn't really surprise me, since many of YOUR posts have reeked of such stuff yourself.

[Duncan Grant]

35. Could you develop that thought more because in its current form it doesn't make sense to me.

Are you saying the mods ignore alerts of actual homophobia because they're desensitized by the sheer volume of "false" complaints?

If so, that would be blaming the problem on people who alert and not on the content of offensive posts. You're not saying that are you?

[racaulk]

37. I think that's exactly what he means. n/t

[Duncan Grant]

57. Oh no! We have met the paradox and it is (gulp)...a wolf!

Say it isn't so! :cry:

[racaulk]

61. I can't believe you said "paradox!" That's homophobic! I'm alerting on your post!

And your use of "have" is highly suspect as well.

See how easily offended I am? Apparently, I'm just a malcontent that will complain about anything.

:crazy:

[Toasterlad]

49. Jesus Christ, I Semi-Agree With Damkira.

Either I need to buy a lottery ticket, or the world is coming to an end.

[mitchtv]

86. Look at the stock mkt, Toasty

major earhtquake due

[Toasterlad]

102. I'm Standing In a Doorway As We Speak!

In all seriousness, while it's ludicrous to say that the sole problem is people complaining too much, I do think that over/mis-use of the alert button is a contributing factor. I know that if I were a mod, and the same people kept alerting about fairly innocuous-to-borderline stuff, I'd be slow to react to it as well.

[Solon]

51. Hmm, I would imagine that for U, homophobia isn't a problem and transphobia doesn't exist either...

why are you still here?

[Chovexani]

65. Please take up knitting or something.

It will make everyone much happier.

[racaulk]

74. I think I love you.

You definitely have a way with words.

:yourock:

[Chovexani]

105. I love you too hon

:hug:

[FlyingSquirrel]

25. As a straight person, I would just like to say

I'm sorry for everything you endure.

:hug:

[racaulk]

28. Thank you, FlyingSquirrel.

You're one of the good eggs. :pals:

[Duncan Grant]

55. Some days are definitely better than others.

Thanks for your kind words. :)

[FreeState]

29. I wish there was a way to track an alert to see the outcome and why and who made the

decision.

[hulklogan]

34. I think I alerted on all the bullshit threads during the little flare up last week

and most of them got locked, eventually. But at least once it took more than an hour.

Do the mods have to discuss all of these alerts? Are they not empowered to lock bigot threads without discussion?

[rogue emissary]

40. this may not count as I'm straight, but . . .

it appears to sometimes work. I alerted on yet another Ann Coulter is a man thread, in minutes it was deleted. Of course that was the first post I've ever alerted.

[LeftCoast]

43. I gave up alerting a long time ago. For you I'll start again though

We've been through this time and time again (as you well know). Promised the system will work and it never seems to. At least we'll be able to carry on in this thread for a while before it gets stomped on.

:hug:

[The Brethren]

46. I haven't been a regular DUer

in awhile. So I say to much about the mods recently, but awhile ago when I was dealing with this homophobic jerk, other gay members were also having a hard time with him, I alerted the mods to his blatant homophobia and part of his threads were deleted.

But from the other posts on this thread, it looks like things have changed a lot since then. I hope the moderators are not tolerating homophobia on this site. If they are, then they've become no different then the repugs.

[Toasterlad]

48. The System Is Very Definitely NOT Working

I've been pretty vocal about being anti-alert, anti-ignore, and anti-censorship of any kind, but as I said to Skinner back when he told us, basically, to settle down: I can live with the system we have, as long as it's being applied equally to all parties. As La Lioness mentions above, there doesn't seem to be much action about the homophobes until the homos start fighting back. Then threads are locked, posts deleted, and life goes merrily along...for about 10 minutes, until the next homophobic post.

Either let us fight our own battles, or shut these assholes down hard and fast, like you promised.

[racaulk]

53. Your last sentence says it all, and perfectly states why I'm so frustrated!

Either do what you said you would, or let us do it ourselves. Damn right!!! :thumbsup:

[Duncan Grant]

56. Good points all.

:thumbsup:

[DarkTirade]

50. Hmm... well, on one of those homophobic threads I called out a series of obvious flamebait comments

as being such, no insults to the poster, just said something along the lines of, "Oh, hey. Flamebait. My mistake. Next time I won't respond." and alerted, ever so nicely explaining in my alert that said poster is obviously just repeating the same flamebaity things to try and get people's goat. Guess which comment got deleted? I'll give you a hint... not a one of the flamebait ones.

[Ms. Toad]

54. Alert has been working for me on GLBT topics

but it took about 4 hours to get a response to racist comments the other day.

[cboy4]

59. Not only that, I'm not allowed to complain about the

large homophobic Slavic population in Northern California.

Everytime I post something about how I think it's wrong for immigrants to shove their backwards culture down the throats of Americans, LOCKED.

Never fails.

Someone tell me why I shouldn't be pissed at these people who go out of their way to make gay people's lives miserable?

Outrageous I can't express my views about this here.

And this post will be deleted in 3-2-1

[terrya]

60. It would be nice if Skinner were to post a sticky saying that homophobia has no place on DU.

As neither sexism or racism have any place at Democratic Underground. Homophobia is just as wrong as sexism and racism.

Just a reminder to people here. As a gay DU'er, who has donated both money and time to DU, frankly it saddens me to see people engaging in out and out bigotry towards the GLBT DU'ers and GLBT people in general. This is supposed to be a progressive message board. We're supposed to be progressive here. This is not Free Republic. The people at FR engage in hateful homophobia...we should be better then them.

I don't know whether a message from Skinner would help. Homophobia here is obviously a problem. But it seems to me that some people here tend to gloss over the "respect sexual orientation" part of the rules.

[Zuiderelle]

62. Good post! And it's been suggested before...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=74840&mesg_id=74935

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=75173&mesg_id=75284

I guess it's not really considered important enough.

:(

[jody]

67. I agree and include hoplophobia also.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hoplophobia

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

68. Go to a shrink. You have to treat this obsession of yours. (Hoplophobia means fear of guns)

Jesus, is there ANY topic you don't try to steer into guns?

Go away. You are stinking up this thread.

[terrya]

71. Is that what hoplophobia means? The poor dear has lost his/her/its way. This isn't the Gun forum.

*sigh*. Poor reading comprehension again. It's "GLBT", NOT "Gun". :eyes:

Thanks, btw.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

92. I learned it from the fact it was that poster who posted it.

Didn't even have to click on the Wiktionary link. Morons tend to be predictable like that.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. yes cause clearly gun ownership is an innate and immutable trait

horseshit

[Raster]

82. That's why we were all born with Glock Nines in our little hands.

[Duncan Grant]

70. When the Mormons and Xtians mobilize to take your guns away -- call me. (nt)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. little babies born with guns in their hands. attached to it even.

[racaulk]

75. I think we should include arachnophobia as well.

Spiders don't get nearly enough respect on DU.

[Duncan Grant]

76. I just shot a latte out of my nose.

You rock. :spray:

[racaulk]

88. Awww...you're a peach.

Back atcha. :pals:

[Raster]

84. Especially the GLBT spiders. They only come out on Halloween!

Ziggy played guitar, jammin' good with Weird and Gilly,
The spiders from Mars, he played it left hand
But made it too far
Became the special man, then we were Ziggy's band

Ziggy really sang, screwed up eyes and screwed down hairdo
Like some cat from Japan, he could lick 'em by smiling
He could leave 'em to hang
Came on so loaded man, well hung and snow white tan

So where were the spiders while the fly tried th break our balls
Just a beer light to guide us
So we bitched about his fans and should we crush his sweet hands?

Ziggy played for time, jiving us that we was voodoo
The kids was just crass. He was the nazz
With God given ass
He took it all too far, but boy could he play guitar

Making love with his ego, Ziggy sucked up into his mind
Like a leper messiah
When the kids had killed the man I had to break up the band

Ziggy Played Guitar

[Zuiderelle]

77. I just LOVE it when people come into the GLBT forum to diminish our issues.

unfrigginreal

[EstimatedProphet]

103. As a gun owner, in my opinion your post is absurd

Just give me ONE EXAMPLE of a gun owner that was taken out and beaten to death for being a gun owner. That's what homophobia leads to for gays.

[jody]

106. Those who object to my use of hoplophobia can join me in supporting all enumerated rights in our

Constitution and un-enumerated rights protected by the Ninth Amendment.

To do otherwise suggests a person may be a single issue voter, a condition that some may classify as hypocritical and inconsistent with the Democratic Party Platform which embraces all inalienable/unalienable rights protected by our Constitution.

Such rights are the only protection a minority class has against the tyranny of a simple majority among the representatives of We the People.

[Book Lover]

107. Really?

Can't I just object to your pretentious and tortured attempt to link your pet cause with the civil rights of my LGBTQQ sisters and brothers?

[Creideiki]

113. I fully support the second amendment

Anyone in a well-regulated militia should not have the right to bear arms infringed upon.

Either that, or if the purpose of the militia is to allow the citizenry to overthrow the government, then everyone should be allowed the weaponry needed to take on the modern military. Right on up to tactical nuclear weapons.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

116. i think you are crazy and should get your head checked for confusing an immutable trait

with a gun.

talk about a single issue voter.

[Chovexani]

64. LOL

That's really all I can say.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. me too

:rofl: :hi:

[Cherchez la Femme]

78. Amazing

Amazingly bad.

(I wrote the gist of this in another comment, but it bears repeating here)

That thread that started with "Stupid queers..." got about 50 responses before it was locked, and what was the reason?
Well now... the reason per the moderator (wish I could remember her/his name) was that it 'could be perceived as inflammatory'

'could be perceived as inflammatory'! :rofl:

I lost the thread, unfortunately, and cannot give you verbatim; but that was how well THAT went,
Ah! The 'new, improved, sensitive' DU!

[racaulk]

79. Here is a link to the thread that you're referring to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7309174

I have it saved in my bookmarks for purposes of posterity. And yes, you're right. The lock reason was ridiculous. The thread wasn't locked because it was homophobic, but because it was perceived as such.

Amazing.

[Raster]

80. I am stunned for several reasons. One, that a homophobic, bigoted fuck-wad made it to over

1000 posts without getting his seriously sick ass tombstoned and TWO, this was eventually locked because it was PERCEIVED as a homophobic thread. Perceived?!? That's like saying "let's liberate Auschwitz because WE THINK it might be a death camp and they might be killing people."

[Raster]

81. Dear Admins: Maybe it's time Democratic Underground comes of age and says unequivocally:

This is a place where Democratic principles and ideals are advanced and cherished, and under no certain conditions will any (1) ageist; (2) racist; (3) sexist; and (4) homophobic bullshit be tolerated. BY ANYONE!

[TechBear_Seattle]

89. The admins have said that, many times.

But saying and doing are very different verbs.

[Cherchez la Femme]

87. TYVM rac!

my memory wasn't 100%, the actual moderator's quote was: "perceived as homophobic"

That's even worse. Being called "Stupid queers" could be perceived as homophobic?!

:shrug: :crazy:

[Duncan Grant]

90. I should offer a quick defense of the mod.

Was perceived a poor word choice? Yes.

It's been my personal experience that this mod is truly an ally to LGBT people. I've met her many times and she walks the walk on progressive issues (all of them). She used the pink triangle as her avatar for years in these forums.

I'm certain she would be horrified to alienate any LGBT person at DU. :hi:

[racaulk]

91. Oh, I know you're right.

proud patriot is definitely one of our straight allies, of that I have no doubt. My only problem with the lock message was the wording of it, which was really bad. That lock message did nothing to resolve the issue, and IMHO, just made the matter worse. Perhaps she was using the words that were given to her by someone else? I'm not sure how the processes of locking threads and banning members works, so that's just a guess on my part.

I have no hard feelings against proud patriot at all, she was just doing her job. But thank you for speaking up on her behalf! :)

[Duncan Grant]

93. Cool.

:thumbsup:

[Raster]

94. Here's to our friend and ally that chose bad wording!

I have lived with homophobia for 50 years now. And I never cease to be amazed--AND APPALLED--at the vehemence and the vitriol. Never. It's because ultimately we terrify them.

[Creideiki]

96. I can understand that.

I'm a moderator at a board that has strict civility rules, and nearly 50,000 users. We moderate that board with a moderation staff that is less than 10. We do make mistakes, and I'm okay with proud patriot making a mistake.

This is systemic. I used to visit here first thing every day for news and to occasionally (I don't do "me, too," posts, and I'm on my toes with that other board) comment. This isn't one mod that's made one mistake. This is to the point that I think that DU would just rather we all go away. I tried to find out if anyone else had a good progressive board where we didn't get treated like this. I've found one, and now spend almost all my time there, just checking in here from time to time. And still there are the eruptions of this coming back time after time.

[Duncan Grant]

98. Would you mind sending me a PM about the progressive board you visit?

:hi:

[Raster]

99. Would you also email me the progressive board information?

Thanks.

[terrya]

101. Another request to please pm me the information about the board you moderate.

Thank you.

[Creideiki]

104. The board I moderate is distinctly not political

You might think it were, based on how gaming geeks are currently fighting a war over which edition of dungeons and dragons is best.

I did find another political board to hang out at, though.

[Toasterlad]

108. What a Stupid Argument. 2nd Edition is Clearly the Best.

[Creideiki]

114. I liked 2nd edition a lot, actually

Yes, I know that puts me in a minority. What I really liked about it was the specialist priests becoming interesting, while still allowing me to play without a computer program to handle leveling up. If I can make that work in 4th edition, then I'll be happy with that.

Wow, I'm such a geek.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

100. ok. i think the word perceived was used since the poster claimed to be gay

[MuseRider]

110. Sorry to bust into your thread lioness

but I have to say my experience is not very good with alerts. It is outrageous that this kind of shit is allowed here. I am sitting here right now watching a movie about Matthew Shepard. 10 long years and so much has changed for the better but not nearly enough, not nearly. It is killing me as it always has to think of this and so many other episodes like it and realize that there are apparently many people who do not see that that behavior is not stopped by letting people write about it. It is made OK to some when that kind of post is allowed to stand. It incites people who are incitable to do the unthinkable. There should be no place for any of that here.

[sniffa]

112. Fine on my end

Then again, I forswore alerting on anything months ago.

[sui generis]

117. all in all I think the mods are doing their job

Whatever the reason for not immediately shutting down a thread, the real loonies are left with their panties hanging out to dry for everyone to see.

You know the drill, keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. If we don't know who they are . . . how will we know who to despise? :P

I do think the "homophobic sons" thread got out of hand. Sadly, we are as often guilty of misinterpreting or letting outrage get in the way of people being able to speak honestly, whether we agree with them or not.

I don't believe that person was inciting hatred, just sharing his experience and I was disappointed that we could not differentiate. In that case we hurt ourselves by not figuring who the bad guys are and by not taking the higher ground and/or fighting our own battles.

The mods probably also have to balance allowing people to express themselves, which is different than someone trying to rally anti-gay sentiment. Really, a real "homophobe" comes in two flavors: someone who hate gays, and someone who is uncomfortable around the topic because it challenges their own notions of identity.

I say we get the hating bastards and give the rest room to grow. If we want people to learn we have to try to teach - and you are better than most at bringing a level head to the discussion or at least sounding the depths a little deeper before firing the torpedoes.

[Zuiderelle]

121. I disagree with you on the "homophobic sons" thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=82552&mesg_id=82552

He was questioned very reasonably why his sons were homophobic, and his answers indicated that he didn't really care if they were racist and anti-semitic and homophobic, that he found them "cool" in fact. It felt very purposefully combative to me.

[mtnester]

122. Amazing..I had heard about that thread

but sweet jesus that was a nasty thread (and I do not believe one fifth of the utter BS that poster typed)

[sui generis]

123. utter BS

how long have you been around? piffle, toots.

I actually know the guy so unlike you I know what I'm talking about. I have also been caught defending, or rather getting defensive, over being taken wrong.

If you like being outraged all the time, believe this: I don't support that as good behavior. Some people are pissy queens face to face and just plain destructive when they're behind a keyboard - not implying that you are, but in some of these threads we are out looking for combat instead of trying to figure out what people mean.

Personally, if they are in front of you, so to speak, just ask them. Nobody has to put words in anyone's mouth. And, belief or not, I'm not Tinkerbell. I'm pretty but a lot meaner. :P

[Toasterlad]

124. I Agree With You IN THEORY

IN THEORY, Communism works. IN THEORY.

I agree the OP of the "proud of my homophobes!" thread didn't mean any initial malice, but they had several chances to back out of the room without breaking any more vases, and they responded each time with a vague defense of their sons as "cool". Granted, not too many people would be willing to blast their own sons as homophobic assholes on the internet, but there would have been nothing wrong with just refraining from continuing the dialog, which even Stevie Wonder could see was going nowhere good.

[mtnester]

125. So, did you mean to direct that to me?

because I really could not understand how that was for my perusal.

My disagreement with that thread was the same as everyone else with the exception of a very few.

[sui generis]

126. sorry

I thought you meant my post :blush:

I do think we instigated a defensive reaction on that post and it snowballed.

The most important thing to me is that we engage people with the same level of acceptance we expect of ourselves. I really do believe that the use of the word "homophobe" was misinterpreted. There are the kind who are learning to deal with something different than themselves, and there is the kind that just hates gays. I think we walk around with a chip on our shoulder waiting for someone to knock it off, while Tom made the mistake of a mischaracterization and ended up defending his kids just like you or I would.

At a time like that we have to try to salvage our friends, not make them into enemies. The other asshats that chimed in didn't do anything to help the situation.

So my take-away is, it's gonna happen again, some time, some how, and we need to be the bigger people, generally speaking.

Having blathered all that out, there are some incorrigible people and we do need to verbally dismember them after making sure we've been as fair and understanding of where they are in life as possible. We all have experience, acquired painfully in some cases, but experience demands that we become teachers more often than punishers.

[mtnester]

127. I give hugs just as freely

as embarrassed faces (and believe me, I am old enough to have a few of those red faces, with more to come I am SURE), so I have been on that end

Now, a hug for you... :hug:

I was just extricating myself from what my son calls (lovingly) an "ex toker WTF moment"

:)