I resent Bi-phobia...especially when it comes from gay people

[La Lioness Priyanka]

How do other bi's feel about this?

just a couple days ago i was talking to a gay male friend of mine. I was telling him that i broke up with my gf and have a bf now. And he said...this is why i would never date someone who is bi.

Keep in mind i have known him for over 2 years where he hasnt even had a second date let alone a monogamous 3 year relationship.

end of rant...

[benburch]

1. Amen, Sister!

I have found that when you are bisexual, you have twice as many people to be disrespected by!!!

[undergroundpanther]

2. It is irritating

You'd THINK the gays would understand how it feels.
Being Bi you"come out twice" Once to the straights once to the gays.
You'd think coming out to the gay community would be easy,they've all done it..BUt noooo. You are a "traitor" in some peoples eyes and frankly this is just stoopid.

And me, being bi and transgender and feline identified for me it can get ugly navigating all the assumptions and fears and bullshit that pings off countless defenses in people just by me being who I am,and shit,it's tiring having to expliain to tell the women I meet,I am bi and trans and they tweak because I'm not enough of a woman, the guys feel like I'm too much of a guy,but I'm not one..
I am currently with a bi guy who likes transpeople.Been with him like 9 years I guess I am lucky.

Some of the dykes I meet resent my bi and transness,because they assume I'm not coming to terms with my inner sappho or something.
The gay dudes make passes at me assuming I am a guy which on one hand is flattering (I am only 1/2 op hytstectomy no T)but on another hand if I tell them who I am they treat me as some exotic specimen in a jar forever tainted with "fish".
And this just hurts because it *IS* bigoted. Same feeling I get from het bigots I get from gay bigots.

Sometimes I think the gay community can act as bigoted,cruel and snotty as the het community.That tells me gays need to do some gender exploring instead of trying to control other peoples gender and all.And that is what threatened defensive hets do.I giuess the gays aren't bi enough to see thier heteroness when it rears it's ugly head?
Just my 2 cents.

[mongo]

5. Man your life is complicated

I'm glad that you are with a partner. I can see where dating can be a nightmare for you.

[asthmaticeog]

3. I don't understand that logic.

Several years ago I had a long term GF who left me for a woman, and it was no different than if she had left me for another man. The effect was the same: she gone, me crushed, what difference did her sexuality make? Zilch. She met someone else, end of story.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

4. thats how i look at it....i was unhappy and met someone else

could have just as easily been another woman...just happened to not be...

[mongo]

6. I don't get it.

The other thing that I don't get is (especially) men who have had a wife and some kids and then at 40 or whenever they have a homosexual experience, and poof! they're gay. Hate women, act like they've never been attracted to them.

It's like if they want to explore who they are, they have to completely reject who they were.

[sundog]

7. No matter what you do...

everyone will have some smack to talk.

All I can say is know yourself. That's my bottom line.

If you're seeking the approval of others, you'll only get yourself down.

When you make choices in life, you often find out who is truly a friend & who is not... Sometimes social isolation leads to spiritual growth. Change is always good. Sure it hurts, but if you are able to find a few people who truly accept you as you are, then you are blessed.

It think a lot of the need for acceptance is psychological conditioning. Personally, I try to break beyond those confines.

Just be true to yourself.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. sundog you always say the most helpful things

i just cant go through feeling more shame...this twice outing is too much for me.

[Technowitch]

9. Makes no difference from whence comes the criticism

Everybody is capable of some form of bigotry, whether mild or blatantly overt. Doesn't excuse it at all, but I do understand the usual complaints... (Mind you, understanding is not approval.)

For instance, the 'typical' gay or lesbian person is that. Even though homosexuality runs on a spectrum, they're sufficiently to one end of the old Kinsey scale that the thought of a relationship with an opposite sex partner is unthinkable. They might very well look upon us Bi's as having the option to go either way -- and resent the fact we have the means to have a relationship that nobody in the het community will complain about. For example, as a Bi woman, I could marry a man -- and all of a sudden my attraction to other women becomes irrelevant. The homophobes would leave me alone. So... we have a factor of RESENTMENT.

Another problem is this weird notion that a Bi isn't actually committed to the status, but is merely 'playing around', trying a homosexual lifestyle -- but will go back to living het at some point. My wife's lesbian friends told her to stay away from me -- that either I would find some man and run off to marry him, or I'd suddenly get an urge for children and pursue men for that reason. My understanding is that this reputation is not entirely without evidence, in some gay & lesbian communities. There are quite a few people who say they're Bi -- then hop right back over the fence to their old lifestyle, leaving broken hearts in their wake. In other words, after the initial shine of enjoying the forbidden is past, as soon as it gets old, the so-called Bi goes back to the old het life. So we also have REPUTATION (overgeneralized, to be certain, but there nonetheless).

Finally, there are some Bi's who simply give us a bad name. The ones who conflate a compulsion towards promiscuity with their "true Bi nature". As in, "Honey, but I need a man sometimes, surely you understand that!" Thus being Bi becomes an excuse for oath-breaking and bad behavior. (Mind you, gay men and lesbian women both have their own undeserved stereotypes to deal with... Ours is just different, and unfortunately, even gays and lesbians can have a blind spot when it comes to having certain bigoted preconceptions.)

HOWEVER, this doesn't excuse that male friend's comment -- and I have seen that sort of thing, too. My response would've been, "And if I'd told you I'd broken up with my girlfriend and merely had a new one, does this mean I'd have your approval?" In other words, after one relationship ends, it is just plain wrong for someone to then insist we have to stick to the same gender as the last one. Or to accuse us that somehow having a BF now means that 'latent' heterosexuality was the motivation for dumping the GF.

Personally, I've a feeling that this friend of yours was going from the old stereotype, that a Bi isn't actually committed to being Bi, but merely marking time until someone good enough of the opposite sex comes along -- and then we jump ship.

Me, I know I'm Bi and will be until the day I die. I like men and I like women -- and if I wasn't with my wife, I truly have no idea who else I might be with. I tend to feel an attraction to the person... and find their gender to be irrelevant.

-Technowitch

[Alisa]

33. basic lesbian

I've read all of the posts and there are a lot of good points here, but I'll respond to yours because it seems to understand that a reputation has been established by some people that, it appears, all have to pay for. I think that is a fair point.

Aside from that, I have had many bi, newbie and even trans lovers. Sounds like I'm an active one (used to be). I have never had the fears, personally, that I have heard from many lesbians - often a defensive thing, I think. When I say defensive I don't only mean "protecting their heart" I also mean in the other sense, a feeling of being left, abandoned, in a political way.

I do think this kind of thinking is hypercritical but the solution won't be in just pointing that out. Discussions like these are the way to go, because they are honest and contemplative with no specific agenda. It is important to keep it on the table.

One last thought, I myself wonder why I have dated so many that are the fringe of the fringe - maybe because the women that attract me are, in the very least, authentic. Broadly speaking, maybe I think many lesbians attempt to attach themselves to a stereo-type, so boring.

Therefore, please continue to make up a large percentage of the interesting and authentic people of this world. Or, where is my hope?

;-)

[PunkyPower]

10. My thoughts.......

(Gay here but just wanted to throw in my 2 cents)

I've been out and in the gay community for a while now, I think a lot of the disrespect that Bi people get, -especially- from the LGBT community is a lot of political posturing.

Many of my friends were always talking a lot of trash about bi people mostly because they thought that their apparent lack of decision gave ammo to the whole "Homosexuality is a choice" right wing Conservative Christian mantra that gets spewed out so much. To a degree I guess they also could view a lot of supposed bi people with envy as they don't have to (at least not half of the time)worry about the blowback of having a same-sex partner.

IMO, whatever floats your boat, so more power to all the bi people out there and here in DU ^_~

[Technowitch]

11. Wonderful thoughts, Punky, and you're likely right, too

Also, welcome to DU!!!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. weldome to du!

[Q3JR4]

13. Gay here.

I don't know a lot of bi people, but I feel the same as what I think I would feel if I were straight and a friend came out to me as a gay person.

I think that people should have the right to date, marry, etc any other consenting adult they wish without ouside interference.

For gays and lesbians to cast judgement on a whole group of people based solely on who they decide to love or who they are (same as what the right has been doing to us for years), seems hypocritical to me. This "Hey I want this that and the other but you can't have it after me" shit has got to stop.

No matter what happens, I stand with my brothers and sisters of any sexual minority and will rejoice with you on your success, fight for you when you are defeated, and march with you to demand your equal rights.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Bisexuals are confused and just haven't come out as gay!

That statement is what I hear more often than not! I will admit (ashamedly) I once thought that way. This was before I became more educated about issues of sexuality. Even as a gay man, I was very suspicious of bisexuals. At some point, I realized I was falling into the same trap set for straights and how they were taught to think about gays. There are, of course, a few opportunistic bisexuals, but the same is true of gays and straights!

Sexual minorities need to come together in a more positive way. I am so disgusted by the fighting that occurs in the GLB communities, especially along gender lines! We need to be more united!

I am sorry to hear about your friend, but you have a great opportunity to educate him on the error of his ways and then you have added an educated solider to the ranks!

Brightest Blessings!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

15. i would try to educate him except i am bad at that

my tendency is to say "well even if you dated someone bi it would only last 15 minutes"....so i dont...

[Behind the Aegis]

21. LOL!

I still think it wouldn't hurt to point out how his comment was inaccurate. There are some great books out there that deal with issues of biphobia, some even from the gay community perspective!

BB!

[Maeve]

16. Keeping in mind the other thread on homophobia

The same theory fits--people like to categorize sexual roles/roleplayers and bisexuality makes a hash out of the neat categories. And some folk just can't stand to deal with that sort of ambiguity.

(BTW, I am very hetero but good friends with a lady who has struggled to define herself with precious little success. She wants to pigeon-hole herself and it drives her crazy that she doesn't fit any of the stereotypic roles. She'll be much better off when she stops trying to label herself.)

[hollywood926]

17. There is an easy solution to your dilemma.

I call myself gay when I am single, like now.

When I date women, I call myself gay.

If I date a man, I call myself straight and tell people I went through shock reparative therapy.

If I date a woman after I dated that man, I just tell people that the shock reparative therapy must have worn off.

And so on.

See? Easy.

[Technowitch]

18. And you wonder why they call us fickle. *winks*

Just jokin', hon.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. omg! thats funny!

[benevolent dictator]

19. i think part of the reason

is that a lot of gay people are "bi" first before they "figure it out." at least most of the gay/lesbian people i know who are my age did. they think of "bi" as what you are when you're adjusting to the fact that you're gay, and so they take that and apply it to everyone who says they are bi. "oh, they just haven't come out yet."

i agree with the whole spectrum theory, that we're all bi, just some more than others. ...but i do consider myself a lesbian.

[Chovexani]

20. Couldn't agree with you more.

It pisses me off so badly it's not even funny. Shit, I expect it from straight people, but gay people ought to know better. I find it the height of hypocrisy for people to be preaching tolerance and acceptance out of one side of their mouth and out the other stating in personal ads "no bis". I swear to god it's like everyone thinks all bi people act like those crazy hos on Jerry Springer. My ex-girlfriend, when I broke up with her, had the audacity to go off on be about hating my "head games" and that she couldn't trust me, and that the minute things got hard I would probably "go running back to cock". You know what's hilarious about that? *SHE* cheated on *ME*, I was completely faithful to her the entire time we were together. I loved her, but she cheated on me because she couldn't trust me. :wtf:

You know, homophobes don't care if you are bi or gay, queer is queer and they are coming after all of us. I find it almost psychotically funny that the Religious Reich is far more inclusive of bis (and Ts too for that matter) than our own supposed brothers and sisters...look at every damn anti-gay rights ordinance and you can be sure there's something in there about bisexuals.

I hate all those supposedly cute comments people make about bis having "the best of both worlds". Truth is, we get the worst of both, and no one gives a shit except us.

</rant>

[La Lioness Priyanka]

23. cheating on someone because you dont trust them

actually makes perfect sense to me...most people are really that insecure

[Chovexani]

24. Thing is in her case it wasn't even true

She was just sleazy and used that as an excuse to screw around on me. I ran into so many of her other exes (that she'd also cheated on) on campus that at one point we were thinking of starting a support group for each other. :P

But bis are promiscuous (sp?) and can't be trusted...:eyes:

[rbnyc]

25. No doubt!

First of all, when I was dating a woman and I said I was bisexual, very few people, and almost no one who was a gay man or lesbian asked me if I were really a lesbian. But when I started dating my husband and I said I was bi, most lesbians and gays asked me if I weren't actually straight.

The thing about this is that it assumes that man/woman partnerships are more normal. If I'm with a woman and I'm bi, that's fine because being bi gives me a reason to be with a woman. If I'm with a man and I'm bi, that's strange, because why would I need to identify as bi if I'm in a "normal" relationship.

I determine my sexuality, not my partner. I'm bisexual no matter who I'm sleeping with, or if I'm not sleeping with anyone.

Also, I was working at the LGBT Center on Gay Pride day. When a man overheard me talking about being bisexual, he got very angry and asked me what the hell I was doing working at the Center, the LGBT Center!

I know a lot of us feel that being bi means we get to love everyone, but everyone gets to hate us.

When I was younger, I didn't even understand that being bisexual was a possibility. Even tho I knew I was attracted to men and women, I felt like I had to say I was a lesbian, and then I felt like I was lying about being a lesbian so I could sleep with women.

That's why bi-visibility is so important to me. I wasted so much time being needlessly confused. I would have gotten laid a lot more if I'd been more comfortable with my sexuality earlier. ;-)

EDIT: And, more related to your post, women leave women and then date other women, men leave men and then date other men, men leave men and then date other women, women leave men and then date other men, women leave men and then date other women...what's the damn difference? Bisexuals have no more difficulty being in relationships than anyone else. This is why I think that gender is the real underlying issue and not sexuality.

[BTTB]

26. No hate here

I don't care if you're gay, bi, straight, trans, herm, whatever. You're a person and that's what matters.

[rbnyc]

29. Thanks!

And welcome to DU!

[politicat]

27. Makes me sad.

I'm both bi and very monogamous. Just something in my nature - I can't find the emotional energy to effectively care for two relationships at once with anything approaching equity. I feel bad about that, but there it is.

So, after my beloved GF died, I dated. Sometimes men, sometimes women, but always one at a time. I got a lot of smack from both sides for not sticking with one or the other, but dammit, I'm attracted to brains, not genitals.

And then I got a whole hell of a lot of smack when I met Mr. Pcat and decided to make it a long term relationship, and then a marriage. The term traitor came out, regardless of the fact that I am still active, involved and working for equal rights for all.

I know the politics are important, but the whole thing is about rights and choice and the right to live our lives as we see fit.

It bothers me when we shoot our own.

$0.02 faithfully deposited,

Pcat

[rbnyc]

30. I also married a man after GF passed away.

What a thing to have in common.

[Lisaben2619]

28. What can we do?

I'm a full blown lesbian and a LGBT activist. The comments here have really made me think about things I didn't realize were issues so I guess I have to admit that I'm part of the problem. And I'll admit that when I was much younger (I'm 46), I had lots of thoughts of suspicison when meeting bi people. But, I've been under the impression that, over the last couple of decades at least, we gay men and lesbians have educated ourselves about the facts of bisexuality.

Where do we go from here? I think maybe that I haven't been asking the right questions of bi friends and fellow activists? Are there specific steps I can take in my friendships with bi people that would help me and them?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. i think respecting our sexuality as distinct from yours would help

i think the problems is gay people and straight peopel like to think of bi's as either gay/straight depending on whom they are with at the time...i will always be bi...which is different from gay or straight...

[readmoreoften]

31. I think the root of biphobia is the fear of falling in love with

someone you're afraid may leave you, or that you may never be enough for, or they might really want someone else, or they might abandon you in the end.

Just know that when your friend is responding to you, he's speaking out of a fear of abandonment.

I also think it's harder for bi women too. Culturally if a woman is bi, she is assumed to be straight and just ultra 'open' and promiscuous or trying to be fashionable. If a man is bisexual, everyone just thinks he's gay and won't come to terms with it. I think buying into that nonsense is really wrong.

[Siyahamba]

34. I think there are just a small amount

who give bisexuality that reputation. Those who go, "Oh, I guess I'm only interested in the oppposite sex after all," and then afterward brush it off as just being young and confused.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. and there are a large number of gay people

who give the impression that being gay is all about casual sex. doesnt mean you have to stereotype every gay person as a slut.

[Siyahamba]

37. Very true

I know despite bad experiences not to prejudge. I wish everyone would do the same.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

38. and i dont think sluttiness from gay/straight/bi people

is bad or exclusive to that sexuality. i think peopel just use such things to justify their existing bigotry

[Zhade]

35. I haven't felt a lot of it, thankfully.

I think sometimes I'm seen as "not really queer", which IMHO is just silly.