If I were an asshole, I'd be tempted to give Mormon's a taste of their own medicine.

[Meldread]

Alright, I'll admit I have a vindictive streak. Even though I know it's wrong, part of me likes the idea of shoving what the Mormon's did back into their face. It would be amusing if somehow a new Constitutional Amendment could be placed on a ballot stating:

"The State of California affirms that Mormonism is a bastard religion, holding no true connection to the Holy Bible, and therefore is not Christian."

This is what 95% of non-Mormon Christian's think anyway. Ad's could be run basically attacking Mormon's with a menacing voice in the background, "Mormon's have distorted the Holy Bible to propagate a false cult.... and they want to recruit your children." Remind people about how they were against black's joining them, about their polygamist background, etc.

Basically, it would be an effort to turn Mormon against traditional Christians reminding them that "the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend." Divide and conquer. Force the Mormon's to spend tons of cash fighting it. It wouldn't strip away any rights for Mormon's, it'd be like making English our "National Language." It's meant to be a racist slap to the face of Mexicans coming across the border, not to prevent people from speaking other languages.

Yeah, this is evil, I know. I think I should probably stop reading these forums. The bitterness is rubbing off on me.

[CreekDog]

1. It's not enough to be right about your cause

have to be smart too.

is this smart?

[Meldread]

3. Nope.

I know it's not smart, and I'm not advocating it. I'm just saying, if I was an asshole that's what I'd be tempted to try and do.

Reading all the bitterness around here is rubbing off. It's like a cancer.

[QC]

15. Your concern is duly noted

and will receive all the consideration that it deserves.

[cboy4]

17. You have zero credibility regarding this cause CreekDog,

ZERO with a capital "Z."

We all know your position.

[CreekDog]

18. what's my position?

please quote something i actually said (completely)

[bluedawg12]

2. Hey, this forum is fun

not clinging to our bitterness. :rofl:

[tblue]

4. It's not evil. I'd even throw the word 'cult' in there.

I take no prisoners. Since when do moralists in Utah get to rewrite the Constitution of the state of California?

If I wanted to live by Mormon precepts, I'd move to fucking Utah.

[Meldread]

7. I'd advocate it if I didn't think it'd burn bridges or hurt the overall cause.

The last thing I want is for LGBT people to engage in similar behavior as those opposed to us, and yet at the same time most people view Mormon's in a dubious light to say the least. They played upon fear of LGBT people, and the emotional part of me wants to show them what it's like. The more logical side of me thinks it would be a good way to demonstrate why the mob rule of democracy doesn't work when it comes to marginalized groups and minorities. The problem is I don't think the Mormon's would "get" the message that is being sent.

Even more on the logical side, it would turn Mormon's against their former allies and create bitter divides that could last for decades. That's both a good and bad thing. Good because it ensures that they won't be working together to work against us (divide and conquer). Bad because it goes against everything I believe in.

Also, forcing the Mormon's to bankrupt themselves trying to prevent it from passing, and then overturning it once it does, would serve them right.

Of course, doing anything like this would prevent LGBT people from doing any outreach into the Mormon Community (outside the leadership) for at least an entire generation, and ensure that we have bitter rivals that fight us at every turn simply on principle. This alone, I believe, does not make it worth it. I would rather reach out to the Mormon Community (non-leadership), convert them to our cause, and work toward overthrowing the leadership or failing that create a schism within the Mormon Church.

[tblue]

8. Since when should a cult from Utah rewrite the Consti-fucking-tution of California?

That's what I'd say. However, you are a person of great patience and perseverance. I salute your grace under fire. Really. You have a lot of class where maybe I'm a little off my rocker. Not gay, but really pissed off that they did this to my LGBT brothers and sisters.

[Meldread]

13. Well...

...to be perfectly accurate, the Mormon's didn't rewrite the California Constitution, the citizens of California did when they voted to pass Proposition 8. Although, I understand your underlying point. Sigh.

I don't live in California, I live in Virginia, but our Constitutional Amendment is far worse. It reads: "Only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions. This Commonwealth and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage. Nor shall this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions create or recognize another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage."

That pretty much means, in a nutshell, that anyone who isn't married and tries to establish a contractual relationship with someone else is fucked if taken to court. It's specifically designed to strip LGBT people from having child custody and visitation rights to any children they might have, among other things. In general it might as well read: "Gay people, stay the hell out of Virginia, because Virginia will take a big shit on you. Virginia is for haters only."

So, in that light, I'm very happy that the California Amendment is nothing like the one here in Virginia, and only bans marriage. I am also glad to see that it did better than I expected it would do. I typically expect these things to pass by 30 point margins, so I guess I'm not as angry as those in California because I'm used to this type of crap. If you're kicked around enough, you grow thicker skin.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to go up to every leader of the Mormon Church, give him a swift kick in the balls, then poke him in the eye. I just try and channel my energy in a more positive direction. I blow off steam when necessary and try and focus on the fact that while we may have lost the battle, we are winning the generational war, and in thirty or so years the majority of the haters will all be dead.

[Jamastiene]

10. We could try the tactic figuratively known as

"kill 'em with kindness." My mother has ways of manipulating any given situation with even the most bitter enemy. She can say some of the most bitter things imaginable in such a way that it tends to change the entire tone of the interaction. She uses subtlety and a soft sweet tone in her voice.

I don't know if I have that kind of discipline though. No, I don't think I do. For those who do, though, it might be an idea worth exploring.

[Creideiki]

21. You could start by complimenting the Book of Mormon

It is considered a masterwork of American fantasy fiction, after all.

[silverojo]

14. Mormons (=Morons) are pretty thick in AZ, too

Having been around these wackos for a couple decades, I can tell you from personal experience that their religious insanity is roughly equivalent to that of Sarah Palin.

[Jamastiene]

5. I used to pin pictures of Jessie Helms

to my dartboard and have at it. I especially liked when they would print a big old ugly closeup of his face in the newspapers. I always loved aiming for those beady little eyes of his when I threw the darts. The closeups gave me the chance to aim for different parts of the beady little "bull's eyes" better.

It was fun as well as therapeutic. It relieved a lot of stress. :evilgrin:

[tblue]

9. Kinda like a Jessie Helms voodoo doll

[Jamastiene]

11. Yes, you could say that, only in dart board form.

I was a teenager at the time, just figuring out that I was gay. I couldn't seem to change it although the churches and everyone else around was trying their damnedest to change me.

He was being his usual hateful self always making damn sure he made more and more rude ass anti-gay comments while keeping my area of the state in poverty as much as he possibly could. I finally decided to try the dart board idea to relieve tension and get the hateful old bastard out of my mind the rest of the time. It worked too.

[Ellen Forradalom]

12. Oh hey, I pinned Phyllis Schlafly to the dartboard back in the day

Remember her?

[bluedawg12]

19. Oh yeah- her and Anita Bryant

remember her? :puke:

[Winnipegosis]

6. Why waste your energy?

Just go back to trying to win next time this comes up.

Who knows? It might even get harder to just win.

[norepubsin08]

16. I think you should do it,

it would probably pass and then when it does, offer to team up with them and get both initiatives overturned in a new election.

[AntiFascist]

20. The Mormon church was behind the anthrax mailings....

I'll bet. :mad: Those Mormons who want to clean up their church better get busy.