Proposition 8 has turned me into a single issue (well, 1,400 issue) voter.

[Zuiderelle]

I've never been one before, but I sure as hell am now.

That's all.

Edit to say, well, not a single issue, but 1,400 issues, those 1,400 issues being the rights and benefits denied me by not being able to marry. I will NOT vote for another candidate in any office that does not support equality for everyone.

[guruoo]

1. Forest. Trees. n/t

[Zuiderelle]

5. Not such a surprising response coming from you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=85264&mesg_id=85351

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4410541&mesg_id=4412111

[guruoo]

33. Well, well, looks like I've made another enemies list. n/t

:boring:

[Zuiderelle]

40. How interesting, that you consider yourself an enemy.

[guruoo]

43. I'm not tracking your posts...

and I certainly don't consider you an enemy.

I believe this is more a simple case of an otherwise well-intentioned
activist that is allowing their emotions to override their better judgement.

[Creideiki]

46. You don't support us

I'm actually sort of surprised that you would come into our forum and decide to stir stuff up. Don't you have something productive to do?

[Zuiderelle]

48. I'm not tracking your posts either. I simply searched for those, since your remark seemed odd.

And because your username seemed familiar from a recent exchange.

I'll ignore your last condescending sentence. Very passive, impressive.

[EstimatedProphet]

47. Mine too, twit.

[terrya]

49. If we're "enemies" to you, just stay out of this forum from now on.

I come into the GLBT forum to talk about issues that concern GLBT people. I also am appreciative and inspired that our straight friends and allies will join in those conversations about our issues and our lives.

I don't wish to come in this forum and be confronted by someone who considers us his "enemy"

So just stay out of our forum from now on. We have enough enemies in the real world. We don't want to see them in here.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

13. CIVIL. RIGHTS. nt

[bluedawg12]

16. your priority not ours but your words take on special meaning

"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival" - guruoo

Those are your words. I expect you would support, as a progressive, any group fighting for their right to the equal application of the law?

[guruoo]

34. I do support marriage rights for GLBT.

[yardwork]

28. Tough luck.

[guruoo]

37. Thanks, but you don't have to go to so much trouble to win me over...

as I've always supported equal rights for GLBT.

[Deja Q]

2. A strong assertion; usually one issue does not carry that much clout.

There are single party voters, but single issue is not logical.

[Zuiderelle]

4. Thanks for your contribution.

Not.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

10. its illogical to support a party or people or person who doesnt believe in full equal rights for you

thats what is illogical.

ofcourse i am sure you dont understand that.

[guruoo]

38. And just who is this party that you speak of?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. the democratic party. i will very likely end up voting for the dem nominee in 2012

however i am the first to say that that vote will be one of bad logic, if the person i vote for doesnt stand for my rights

[guruoo]

42. While driving to Nashville yesterday, I caught the program 'Out of the Closet' on Vandy 's WPLN...

The show featured a nationally syndicated news segment from, (I believe, not sure about the name)
'Queer Radio News'. The program contained an excellent editorial on this GLBT marriage issue, and
GLBT rights in general called 'I wish I were a chicken'.
I wanted to post post audio or transcript here, but so far I haven't had any luck so
far in tracking down an online source.



on edit: Correction: Just discovered that editorial was actually
Joyce Arnold in her locally produced segment called Queer Talk.

[terrya]

17. Yeah, according to you, equality isn't logical.

Isn't it time for you to go back to the Lounge? You really don't give a damn about GLBT people and their issues, anyway.

[HEyHEY]

21. I disagree, with all of today's apathy toward politics single issues are the biggest factor.

[yardwork]

29. People will sexual neuroses should get therapy, not impose their issues on others.

Homophobes have a problem. They should get help for that problem instead of imposing it on everybody else.

[guruoo]

44. Well put. n/t

[NMMNG]

3. No, you are not a single issue voter

Even if your only concern is LGBT rights you are not a http://gaytheistagenda.lavenderliberal.com/2008/03/03/one-issue-voters/">one issue voter. Don't let anyone try to reduce you, or your rights, to that.

[Zuiderelle]

6. You are correct. I edited my post.

Thanks.

[NMMNG]

20. De nada

I created it a while ago when I got tired of people calling us "one issue voters" because we dared to say we wanted a politician who supported full equality.

[keepCAblue]

7. Well said, Buffy. n/t

[WillParkinson]

11. Thank you Buffy...

I was going to try to track down that link.

When the election was going on I said that I was voting this year for MY life. Paul and I have been together for 21 years. Wisconsin passed the same type of amendment that has been passed in other states and I know exactly how I felt. Yet I had to listen to so many people telling me that I was a single-issue voter and that my concerns weren't important.

Thankfully Buffy posted that and it made my choice much clearer.

[ColoradoMagician]

15. Loyal to Your Issue Voter

...

[stray cat]

8. So between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden you would not have voted?

eventhough your rights would be better protected by Obama/Biden but they come up short of marriage?

[Zuiderelle]

9. If Obama does not support equality for all when he runs in 2012, I may not vote for him.

That's what I am saying.

I don't have time to keep waiting for equality. I refuse to give my vote to someone who doesn't think that I am an equal citizen of this country. I've been inhabiting it nearly as long as Obama, and yet he has more rights than I do.

[bluedawg12]

23. PF- here is why I have not reduced it down to the GE.

There will be less support from any other major party.

I am not asking for scraps, but, I do know that our best chance was to get the smartest and most qualified candidate in office--which happened--and one who will likely support the appointment of federal judges and SCOTUS who will influence laws.

The worst scenario, is we keep having freedom for all put up to a vote, which then turns into a typical PAC/lobbyist political campaign, gay bashing for weeks on the media, and the risk of votes being stolen, lost and other dirty business.

But, down ticket, that's where we can turn on the heat. Just my two cents at this point in time--I am still working through these issues, too.

[Zuiderelle]

24. This GE I did not reduce it down. But if we are still fighting this ridiculous battle in 4 years

I don't see how we have a choice, if we ever hope to change things. My partner and I put in hundreds of hours volunteering for Obama's campaign, and a good chunk of money we can't afford in support of him. That will not happen next time if he doesn't support our equality. Instead I'll work for whatever candidates do support it, even if it's just a city councilperson or whatever. I'm really not convinced either that I should throw away my vote four years from now in support of a candidate that doesn't support our equality.

I couldn't say that in this election, but then Prop 8 hadn't yet happened. I truly do not know how I will feel in four years, but I KNOW that I will not contribute what I contributed this time, if he doesn't make a turnaround and recognize the unfairness of our position in this country.

I just can't keep turning the other cheek. I've run out of cheeks.

[bluedawg12]

32. PropHate8 was the Stonewall of our generation.

It's time we now focused on ending the relentless on slaught of hatred and bigotry that seems to have become a blood sport in the US.

Gay hate crimes and violence seems to be business as usual. I agree totally, that activism and passion are the way to go.

I don't want to project four years into the future, just yet, because there is so much work to be done now.

I agree that this issue is probably the most important for us at this time in history - the more I see about hate crimes and hate speech the more I agree with you, and have, that we have run out of ways to deny what is going in the US regarding hate and bigotry which has risen to the level of being immoral and unfair.

:fistbump:

[Dawgs]

51. "if we ever hope to change things"

Helping a Republican get elected is only going to change things in the wrong direction.

Obama will surprise you.

[Zuiderelle]

52. Jesus. Way to not get the fucking point.

I will SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT CIVIL EQUALITY. Period. If Obama supports it then I will support him.

Jesus fuck.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

12. i dont know if i can say that yet, but after PROP 8, i understand those who do

i will say that i will never DONATE to another politician who doesnt believe in my equality

however, my vote is a bit cheaper. that's what i say now, however in 2012 i will be 34 and if i am not close to getting equal rights, i may decide not to cheapen my vote

[Zuiderelle]

14. I couldn't have said it before this election...

Because, after all, I DID vote and campaign for and volunteer for and donate to a candidate, Obama, who does not believe in equality for all. But after Prop 8 passing, it's finally dawned on me that we cannot win by continuing to be guaranteed votes for democrats, when they consistently set us aside. We will never be equal until that changes.

I'll vote for whatever candidate, even if it's a third-party candidate with no hope of winning, who supports equality.

[Unvanguard]

25. Consider the trend here.

Clinton, the last winning Democrat, signed DOMA. Obama promises to repeal it entirely. We accomplished that without threatening a boycott of Democratic candidates who don't support same-sex marriage.

It's not right or acceptable or tolerable that we have to wait for equal marriage rights. But we do; is there an alternative? And when substantial progress is already being made--CT and MA have same-sex marriage, DOMA will probably be repealed within a few years, DC and NY have a very good chance of getting same-sex marriage soon, Prop. 8 may very well be repealed in 2010 if the CA Supreme Court doesn't strike it down now--it makes no sense to stop supporting Democratic candidates, especially when in all likelihood they will be much better on LGBT issues (ENDA, hate crimes, DOMA, DADA, federal rights of marriage) than the Republican alternatives.

[Zuiderelle]

26. Heard it all before. I'll say it again, I will NOT support anyone who doesn't support my equality.

Period.

"Much better" this, "end of DOMA" that, but what do we get? A vote that robs us of rights we already HAD in California. They used OBAMA'S VOICE in robo-calls where he said that he is "against gay marriage." Obama himself swayed the vote against us whether he intended to or not. It doesn't matter if Democratic candidates are "better" for us, if we don't get anything from them. I'm not interested in waiting any longer.

Nope, if you don't support my equality, you get ZERO support from me, from this day forth.

[Unvanguard]

27. You may not be interested in waiting

but reality is not going to deliver immediately, so you (like the rest of us) are going to wait whether you like it or not.

I fail to see how your plan of action changes that for the better, in any respect.

[Zuiderelle]

30. "reality is not going to deliver immediately"...

Yes, I'm sure I'll have to wait the remaining decades of my lifetime. At the rate it's been going, hopefully, someday after I'm dead, gay Americans can have equality. Let's just wait and continue to support people who don't care about us. That will certainly ensure that we don't get equal rights for my lifetime.

I fail to see how you can't understand how my plan to put my support behind Democratic politicians who actually SUPPORT our equality is not a good plan. I never said I would not support Democrats, I would NEVER vote for a Republican, even if that Republican supported gay marriage. My being focused on this issue of equality does not extend to me voting against all the other things that I hold dear. There are plenty of Democrats who support gay marriage, and WE need to encourage them to make that support known, and to make it part of their agenda. Do you seriously think I should continue to support politicians who do nothing for us except grudgingly go along way behind the rest of the developed world?

[Unvanguard]

35. By refusing to vote for the Democrat you help the Republicans.

That's how the system works. One or the other is going to win. You don't help a hypothetical pro-equality third option by refusing to vote; you just help the worse of the two.

As for supporting "people who don't care about us", that's not what I said. There has been and will continue to be concrete progress on this issue, and we should support candidates who continue it, as Obama does and any future Democratic presidential candidate likely will, fully pro-equality or not. It's not happening as fast as justice and reason demand, no, but, then, essentially nothing in this decidedly imperfect world does.

Of course we should encourage pro-equality Democrats. But there is a difference between doing so and being unwilling to support, at all, candidates who do not support same-sex marriage. And most of the pro-equality Democrats don't need our extra support: they tend to represent the more liberal constituencies in the country, and have secure seats.

Politics isn't always, or even usually, a matter of reciprocal exchange: "you support my equal rights and I'll support your run for office." Sometimes it's more like that old thought experiment about the runaway train: do you let it continue on its path and run over five innocent people, or redirect it onto a different path where it will run over only one? Not a pleasant choice. But not one you can avoid, either--and not one where refusing to make the choice is particularly productive.

I was insulted when Obama said that same-sex marriage was inconsistent with his religious beliefs--as if that somehow has anything to do with people's rights. I was infuriated with Palin and Biden agreed that an inferior legal status for same-sex couples was the best option--such a display of bipartisanship, in unity against equality. But I don't think denying a Democrat, even a Democrat against marriage equality, the support he or she might need to defeat a Republican is a productive solution to the problem.

[Zuiderelle]

39. I'm talking about not supporting the Democrat with my money or time, instead devoting it to other

candidates at other levels, local or national, that will fight for my equality. That's what WE ALL should be putting our money towards. I absolutely REFUSE to give money or time to ANY democrat who doesn't support equality.

Period.

Other people who don't care about our civil rights will give him or her plenty of support and money. But if he or she wants MY support, they have to support me.

Period.

Equal rights should not even be a part of ANY exchange, reciprocal or otherwise. Equality is our CONSTITUTIONAL right, and I will not support any candidate who does not support our constitution in that regard.

Period.

I've spent 28 years of my voting life supporting democrats who don't support me. I'm done.

Period.

[bluedawg12]

31. I think our plan of action is to have a voice as a community

to exert influence by activism and nothing will happen if we take that passive approach and pretend that we can wait for the tide of history to turn in our favor.

Surely, there is nothing wrong with activism towards the issues that are of concern to one's own group?

I applaud people who take a stand.

"Reality is not going to deliver immediately..." - Unvanguard

Of course not, as there is no such thing as reality doing anything, reality is what we make it and what we achieve.

[Unvanguard]

36. I support activism, even militant and angry activism.

But there is a difference between political activism and electoral action. We should agitate for a change in the political landscape that will allow for equal rights. But if we do not achieve such a change--if we are faced with a choice between bad and worse, as with Obama's and McCain's positions on same-sex marriage--we should still choose "bad" over "worse."

[bluedawg12]

45. I don't support violent activism, if that's what you mean by militant.

It's hard to argue that we are for stable family life and be anything but focused, thoughtful, peaceful and do what we can within the bounds of peaceful protest.

One of the tools for that is selecting the voices that will represent us, with great care. That's how I understand understand this OP.

ETA: The only activism I would support is lawful and peaceful. I am very clear on that.

[bluedawg12]

18. It is the premier issue and the lens through which we will apportion

our time, donations, activism, and vote.

It must start with the GLBTQ community and it must be our focus for this time in history.

PHate8 chnaged everything, as did the elction of President Elect Obama. We can at least rest assured that the hand at the tiller is very able, and this is the time to unite and stay focused. the rw haters are just warming up. The cultural wars are all they have left.

[terrya]

19. Everytime David Plouffe sent an email requesting another donation...

to Obama, I would try to do so, if I was financially able. But I was doing so, knowing that I was supporting a man who didn't support my full equality. Or yours. Or any other gay and lesbian American. It was...part of me was a little disheartened each time. No other group was not supported in THEIR equality, in their standing as Americans...except us.

I hate to bring up the No on 8 protest I went to here yesterday, but the point that you made was made by several speakers. No. No. No promising our votes, no donating to politicians...not until they support our FULL equality.

Whenever this whole subject is brought up, some people will say, "My GOD, you're so selfish. The problems in this country, the possibility that we'll put so and so back in power again, that we'll keep this candidate from winning". But what's selfish, what's wrong with simply wanting equality? What's selfish about wanting to be a first class citizen in their own country? What's wrong with not wanting to be discriminated against?

[bluedawg12]

22. If the people that call us selfish were truly interested in efficiency

and working on the other problems as well, they would simply support gay justice and fairness issues rather than throwing up time and resource consuming obstacles.

BTW- how many tax dollars were spent to have anyone one person push "No" on Hate8?

Zero.

[LostinVA]

50. Ci8bil rights is an excellent issue tio make your "one issue"