The "don't knock it til you've tried it" and the "it's been used for X number of years" fallacies.

[FLAprogressive]

So often, advocates of (at best) scientifically unproven and often wholly discredited treatments will tell you that you have no right to comment on the efficacy and scientific merits of treatments (and other movements) unless you've tried it yourself. Obviously, this relies on anecdotal evidence (which is the often only "evidence" employed). And, like clockwork, the "it's been used longer than conventional medicine" fallacy will be thrown in there for good measure.

For example:

I say that "Homeopathy has no basis in actual science, and the dilution of so-called 'cures' millions of times in water could not make something stronger; lest the laws of physics be turned entirely upside down."

The response is usually: "Have you even tried a homeopathic remedy? (I/my husband/my brother/my grandma's aunt/my dog) use it for (flus/colds/other self-limiting conditions) and it works for me! How can you comment on something that you haven't tried? Have I mentioned that homeopathy has been around a lot longer than Western medicine?"

When this logic is employed, it can be extended almost infinitely.....

Examples:

"Have you even TRIED blood-letting? Blood-letting worked for my great-great-great Aunt Gertrude to cure her hysteria. Blood-letting has been used as a treatment for THOUSANDS of years, certainly longer than anything big pharma has been making."

"Have you even TRIED shoving moon rocks up your rectum? I personally shove moon rocks up my caboose every time I get the flu, and within a few days, it's gone. Conventional medicine can't explain that."

and it goes on and on.....

Until the purveyors of alternative medicine and other New Age movements find actual scientific evidence to back up their outlandish claims, they have to continue to rely on logical fallacies to swindle people out of money.

[etherealtruth]

1. Faith

... belief in something in the absence of logic/reason/scientific evidence comes down to faith. I have decided (this is obviously an exception)to opt out of these arguments (except in the event that a loved one were to decided to pursue one of these "therapies"). I don't get it ....but those that believe in these therapies display an almost "religious fervor" in their belief .... rarely can that be penetrated.

[msongs]

2. or the political equivalent, "Hope" lol nt

[markpkessinger]

3. Excellent points

I read somewhere that something like 80% of illnesses/maladies are ultimately cured/healed/remedied by the body's own defenses and processes. So Aunt Mae develops some ailment, takes the advice of some neighbor about some bogus remedy, and what do you know, it seems to "work." No amount of fact-based dataa will ever convince Aunt Mae otherwise.

[FLAprogressive]

8. And none of these "remedies" actually work on illnesses that require cures....

When is the last time you heard someone taking homeopathic medicine for HIV.....or cancer.....etc. and getting better?

[laconicsax]

4. Rec'd to zero. You must have struck a nerve. n/t

[FLAprogressive]

9. And yet, no responses. Hmmmmm.

[Liberal Veteran]

5. My grandmother swore WD-40 worked best for her arthritis.

Since I was fairly certain I wasn't descended from sentient machines, I figured the worst it could do was make her smell like an auto shop.

[emilyg]

6. I rub it on bug bites and

use it as a moisturizer once a week.

[MineralMan]

7. I'm pretty sure I'm in love, now.

:hug:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

10. All non-Western medicine is not the same.

You are lumping all non-allopathic treatments in the same pile.

Some of them are crazy and unproven and don't work. Like homeopathy. In my experience it has not worked for me. Somebody else likes it, that's fine with me.

I don't know anybody who advocates blood-letting these days, but then, I try to stay away from really crazy people.

Ayurveda, from India, and acupuncture, from China, have thousands of years of practical experience behind them. In 1973, when President Nixon went to China, I remember seeing pictures of a young woman sitting up in bed, smiling,who had just had a huge ovarian cyst removed. The news reports said they used acupuncture for her anesthetic. We in the West had no idea that that could be done.


I'd trust those two systems before I'd trust shoving quartz crystals up my nose, for example.

There are a lot of doctors who ignore complaints and put everybody on anti-depressants when they might need some blood tests and maybe even more thyroid. But they won't even consider it. That's a case where there is scientific evidence, but the doctors are told in school certain concepts that are wrong. The one I heard all the time was "Armour Thyroid is old fashioned and the dose is not consistent". That is bullshit. The label says "Biologically assayed, United States Pharmacopoeia".
I shut up a board-certified Minor Deity Endocrinologist with that statement.

That's why there are lots of yahoo groups of people with specific complaints that trade information about what works for them.

[FLAprogressive]

11. Acupuncture has been scientifically proven though.....it's when people start touting acupuncture as

a treatment for anything but pain, is where it gets into quackery.

[jeff47]

12. The problem is acupuncture has been proven with untrained practitioners

It turns out you can stick the needles anywhere and get the same result.

[laconicsax]

13. No, it hasn't

What's been proven is that sticking needles in the skin relieves pain. Acupuncture, the practice of sticking needles at specific points to affect the flow of Qi and treat a wide variety of ailments, has not been proven. In fact, it's been disproven by virtue of the facts that the location of the needles is irrelevant.

[HuckleB]

14. Or distracts one's brain from the pain.

Touching the spot of the pain has also been proven to be effective, in at least one study, however.

[laconicsax]

15. It's really and/or.

The needle can stimulate the release of adenosine.

[FLAprogressive]

16. Well, that part is true....the woo-woo "Traditional Chinese" crap hasn't.

[HuckleB]

18. Even for pain, it's highly questionable.

Few studies show much beyond placebo, with one study show that it can trigger one specific biological effect that may offer a mild benefit.

That's basically it.

[HuckleB]

17. I know quite a few doctors, and none practice as you describe.

Further, I suspect that you didn't shut anybody up. Perhaps he just tired of explaining things to someone who thinks he or she is right about everything, despite not understanding much of any of the science at hand.

As for bloodletting and acupuncture: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/acupuncture-and-modern-bloodletting/

Educate yourself before pushing this crap on others.

[HuckleB]

19. BTW, the acupuncture anesthesia hoax is well documented.

Stop pushing BS!

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/acupuncture-anesthesia-a-proclamation-of-chairman-mao-part-i/

[HuckleB]

20. How about the "EVERYONE In Europe Uses It Fallacy?"

:rofl: