any herpetologists familiar with the salamanders of the Midwest here?

[semillama]

I ask because I found a Northern Ravine Salamander (at least I am pretty sure that's what it is) doing archaeology fieldwork at a military installation in southwest Indiana, but the references I consulted online to identify it all showed the range of the species as ending several counties to the east of the place I was working.

Anyone know if this particular salamander is known from outside its mapped ranges? It would be interesting if I made some sort of minor herpetological discovery...

[FSogol]

1. Is there a herpetologist in the house?

Always wanted to say that. ;-)

[Bonobo]

2. WriteDown claims to be a herpetologist.

Look him up and IM him.

[WriteDown]

6. Wow!

Good memory!

[Hawkeye-X]

3. Sallymander is your person!

She can be often found in DU Lounge.

[TheCML]

4. weird

i didn't know salamanders could get herpes.

[WriteDown]

5. It's my hobby

I'm on vacation though. Ask me a question and I'll help the best I can.

[SallyMander]

7. Did you happen to get any pics?

Especially of the belly? It is easy to confuse ravines (P. richmondi/electromorphus) with the "lead-back" phase of red back salamanders (P. cinereus). Ravines will have a solid black belly, whereas red backs will have a mottled black-and-white belly. Other than that they can look very similar!

Also, what was habitat like?

ETA: If it is indeed a range expansion, that is interesting to herpetologists. If you have a voucher specimen or photo, you can submit a Geographic Distribution note to the journal Herpetological Review.

:hi:

[semillama]

8. Here's the only pic.

Unfortunately does not show the belly, but if I recall correctly, it did have a solid black belly.



The salamander was found in leaf litter near an old well, about 10 feet from a stream in an wooded ravine in Greene County, Indiana. Local bedrock in the ravine was sandstone, although there's lots of limestone around.

[WriteDown]

9. Wow, that is a toughy from the photo...

It's most likely a Slimy Salamander, but I'd need more photos to confirm. Good news is that they tend to stay in one place, so you're bound to find more in the Spring.

[semillama]

10. The Natural Resources manager at the installation

thinks it's the lead-colored variant of the Red-Backed Salamander.

Here's a picture of the three color morphs of the species:

[WriteDown]

11. Could be....

I would love more photo's if you get them.

[semillama]

12. Unfortunately, we aren't likely to be back in that area

Our fieldwork was completed and I don't think we'll have reason to go back. But we might be going to the same installation but a different area, so I'll keep an eye out for similar salamanders.

[WriteDown]

13. I'll so some more research tonight....

Have a pile of field guides I still haven't gone through. What area was it again? Perhaps I'll go for a roadtrip in the spring .

[semillama]

14. It's on a military installation in SW Indiana, so it's not open to the public n/t

But you could always look in similar habitats around Bedford. If it is a lead-backed variant of the Red-bellied, then it's known in the area already and not a big deal.