Love your pet? Know what you're really feeding them

[Lorien]

While I was fighting to save my beloved kitty Peewee from a whole host of deadly ailments in 2003, my pet sitter Jackie encouraged me to learn more about what I had been feeding my finicky kitty for most of his life. He had always refused the "premium" foods in favor of Friskies and Fancy Feast. I began to Google questions about his illnesses along with advice for pet nutrition, and I was horrified by what I discovered. Giving Peewee the stuff he had liked over the years had no doubt accelerated the progress of the genetic illnesses he was born with, and gave him additional problems that made his inherited illnesses impossible to successfully treat. Why was Peewee so hooked on those awful foods? Corn syrup was a big part of the problem; it's an unhealthy ingredient for cats (and for us, too) but it's addictive-plus, the pet food companies receive government subsidies for including it in their foods. And the "premium" foods like Iams and Eukanuba? They weren't significantly better. The high price of those foods comes more from their expensive marketing campaigns than from better ingredients.

Here is just one of the articles out there on what's really included in commercial pet foods:

Poisons in Pet Food from Alternative Medicine Magazine, May 1998
A homeopath of our acquaintance, who specializes in animal health, recently reported that nearly all of her new cases are dogs and cats with cancer. This is a most unusual and alarming trend, she told us.
One of the reasons American dogs and cats are getting very sick can be found in the pet foods they eat every day. The realities of animal health aren't much different than human health: if you consume a diet of toxins, eventually you will get terribly sick.
Don't expect the food label to be any true guide to the product's contents. The list of ingredients on that bag of dry pet food or can of "meat" can mask the toxic horrors behind innocuous-sounding phrases such as "meat meal," "bone meal," and "meat by-products." It's the substances you don't know about in that can of pet food that may sicken or even kill your pet.
The list of materials that go into the rendering process is extensive and horrific. When cattle, sheep and poultry are slaughtered for human consumption, the parts deemed unsuitable for eating, heads (including growth hormone implants in cattle), skin, fat containing pesticide residues, toenails, hair or feathers, joints, hooves, stomach and bowels are rendered.
Other animal parts sent to rendering plants include cancerous tissues, worm-infested organs, contaminated blood and blood clots. Compounding these toxins, slaughterhouses add carbolic acid and fuel oil to these remnants as a way of marking these foods as unfit for human consumption.
Meat and poultry by-products, another major category of pet food ingredients, are the unrendered parts of the animal left over after slaughter, everything deemed unfit for human consumption. In cattle and sheep, this includes the brain, liver, kidneys, spleen, lungs, blood, bones, fatty tissue, stomachs and intestines. The items on this list that would normally be consumed by humans, such as the liver, would have to be diseased or contaminated before they could be designated for pet food. Poultry by-products include heads, feet, intestines, undeveloped eggs, chicken feathers and egg shells.
The primary ingredient in many dry commercial pet foods is not protein but cereal. Corn and wheat are the most common grains used but, as with the meat sources, the nutritious parts of the grain are generally present only in trace amounts. The corn gluten meal or wheat middlings added to pet foods are the leftovers after the grain has been processed for human use, containing little nutritional value.
Or they may be grain that is too moldy for humans to eat, so it's incorporated into pet food.
Mycotoxins, potentially deadly fungal toxins that multiply in moldy grains, have been found in pet foods in recent years. In 1995, Nature's Recipe recalled tons of their dog food after dogs became ill from eating it. The food was found to contain vomitoxin, a mycotoxin.
Harmful chemicals and preservatives are added to both wet and dry food. For example, sodium nitrite, a coloring agent and preservative and potential carcinogen, is a common additive. Other preservatives include ethoxyquin (an insecticide that has been linked to liver cancer) and BHA and BHT, chemicals also suspected of causing cancer. The average dog can consume as much as 26 pounds of preservatives every year from eating commercial dog foods.
Recent studies have shown processed foods to be a factor in increasing numbers of pets suffering from cancer, arthritis, obesity, dental disease and heart disease. Dull or unhealthy coats are a common problem with cats and dogs and poor diet is usually the cause, according to many veterinarians and breeders. The AAFCO nutrient profiles may play a role here, in the balanced" nutritional levels they recommend may be inadequate for an individual animal.
It is estimated that up to two million companion animals suffer from food allergies.
Dr. Plechner believes that the commercial pet foods are a primary cause and can contribute to a host of health problems.
"Among pets, there is a widespread intolerance of commercial foods," he states. "This rejection can show up either as violent sickness or chronic health problems. It often triggers a hypersensitivity and overreaction to flea and insect bites, pollens, soaps, sprays and environmental contaminants."
Feline Urological Syndrome, a chronic condition similar to cystitis in humans (characterized by frequent urination with blood in the urine), is an increasingly common and potentially fatal illness in cats. It has been linked to elevated levels of ash and phosphorus, two substances commonly found in commercial pet foods. High iodine levels are seen as a contributing factor for thyroid tumors in cats. "New diseases are being discovered that are linked to '100% complete' diets," states Dr Wysong. These include Polymyopathy (a muscle disorder) from low potassium levels, dilated Cardiomyopathy (heart muscle disorder) from low taurine levels, arthritic and skin diseases from acid/base and zinc malnutrition and chronic eczema from essential fatty acid malnutrition," he reports.
Given the high possibility that your favorite pet foods may be slowly poisoning your cat or dog, it's crucial that you find brands you can trust to be animal friendly.

http://www.frrhealthypet.com/id2.html

POLLUTED PET FOOD

Commercial pet food and stock feed contain a cocktail of dead domestic animals and deadly environmental toxins.

I'm not going to post these short articles, because they are a bit TOO disturbing (animal shelters sending pet remains to rendering plants for use in pet foods and other vile practices). Here's a link if you feel you need to know more:
http://www.frrhealthypet.com/id35.html

So, what's a caring pet owner to do? Jackie pointed me in the direction of Pookie's Bow wow Bakery, a holistic pet food store in Winter Park, Florida. They gave me samples and loads of information about the many brands of holistic, HUMAN GRADE pet foods out there, including Wellness, Artemis, Organix, Innova, Karma, Merrick, California Naturals, Halo, and many more. It was too late for Peewee; he lost his battles on August 1st of 2003. But there's still plenty of time for your fur kids.

Some links for holistic foods:

www.pookiesbowwowbakery.com

www.waggintails.com

www.nationalpetpharmacy.com (search the natural food section)

www.halopets.com

www.artemiscompany.com (has a search function to find holistic pet food retailers in your area)

www.naturesvariety.com

[demnan]

1. I'd like to kick this

because I've seen favorable results from switching to Organix cat food at your recommendations. My cats love it and Lily seems to be more energetic. Pad Thai's coat is smooth as silk. (You couldn't make him more energetic!)

Also I decided I'm going organic too as much as possible. I read in the Lounge a few weeks ago that gross article about pus in the milk. I'm buying organic milk now thank you.

[Lorien]

2. Yeah, I'm buying more organic foods too

in part because many commercial food brands give a lot to the GOP (including the pet food companies) and in part because I worry about the long term effects of GM produce and the heavy use of dangerous chemical fertilizers and pesticides. The FDA seems to bend over backwards to accommodate big Ag, at our expense! Plus, the organic foods simply taste better and make a person feel better.

I'm so glad Pad Thai and Lily love the Organix! The people at Pookie's say that it's one of their best brands. I sure noticed a change in my 16 year old DSH Miro when I switched to holistic foods; as you said, better coat, more energy-plus, he doesn't have the stomach problems he once did and he just seems to be in a much better mood these days. I hope we'll have many more years together. :-)

[demnan]

7. Yeah, I haven't seen a carpet puke in weeks!

This will save money in the long run on carpet shampoo!

[femmedem]

79. My two rabbits definately know the difference between organic and conventional.

They go crazy for organic veggies. They are so so about conventional. I figure if they can tell the difference by smell, the difference must be profound.

[roguevalley]

3. One of the best foods (organic) is Hundenflaken (Solid Gold)

[Lorien]

4. Yep, that's another good brand

I feed my cats Solid Gold blended tuna from time to time; they love it!

[dogonarug]

5. Switched my pups

To Wellness a while back after one of your "feed em right" posts.
You always post such valuable pet info...Thanks.

Max...

Coby...

[luzdeluna]

6. We tried to stick to Karma (organic)

but it was really difficult to keep finding it.

Now Henry eats Wellness and he loves the chicken. blueberry and sweet potato.

You might want to mention that, if you are feeding dry, that many of the high quality foods are less stable.

You should not buy a bag too large for you dog or cat to eat within a few weeks. Especially the fish based foods can go rancid and cause severe illness.

We freeze ours to be safe.

LDL

[Lorien]

8. Good advice!

I bought a huge bag of Artemis a few months ago (thinking I was saving money) and still have a lot left! I think it should be made into "raccoon food" now.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. Excellent post. Thanks Lorien. It is important to feed our babies good

quality food. The extra money we spend for the food we will save in vet bills. And our pets will be with us longer, and they will be in better shape while we have them with us.

I use Wellness Super 5 Mix Chicken kibble for my cats and dogs. I supplement with the canned Merrick.

Other resources for information about pet food.

What's Really in Pet Food
http://www.api4animals.org/79.htm

It's called ethoxyquin - a very bad preservative!
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/mp30/ethoxyquin.html

another good source for holistic dog and cat food
http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/

A MUST READ book!
Food Pets Die for: Shocking Facts about Pet Food
by Ann N. Martin

In addition to ordering from www.waggintails.com, I order from ww.carealotpets.com They are very nice. Prices are good. Delivery is usually within 2 days. You can compare prices and products and see what serves your needs best. What you pay in delivery charges, you may save in taxes.

[Lorien]

31. Great links!

:hi:

[Mutley]

35. I like Merrick

They have some gross dog treats like dried cow esophagus, whole cow feet, tendons, bull pizzels (ehem... penis), and others. It grosses me out but my dog loves it.

[luzdeluna]

10. All of these links are great!

When I was trying so hard for a good quality of life for my little Cushing's dog (Happy Boy), I ended up making his food myself. Beef or chicken, lots of vegetables and a small amount of rice.

Added to that was a long list of supplements and vitamins.

Taking him off of pet food made all the difference. So many of his symptoms resolved themselves with just a change in diet.

One of the supplements that had a dramatic effect was Prozyme. It's an enzyme and is wonderful at helping pets (and people) absorb more nutrients from their food.

http://www.prozymeproducts.com/

It's great for elderly pets or pets suffering from chronic colitis or an immune deficiency condition.

Has any one else used it?

LDL

[BrklynLiberal]

22. I give that to my German Shepherd, Boen-every day. Have given it

to all my dogs. Excellent supplement.

[Silver Gaia]

115. Thanks for posting this, luzdeluna!

I decided to try it out for my Cody. He is an older guy who has some colon problems and possibly has Cushings. I'm hoping it helps him. He's doing really WELL right now (he's 14, but you wouldn't know it unless I told you), but I figure it can't hurt. I make his food myself (my vet's recipe), but am happy to add any supplements that may help him.

A note to anyone who may be considering trying Prozyme: At the link posted by luzdeluna above, they will send you a free sample that is enough for about a month's worth by my reckoning (for Cody). You just pay shipping, which was just $6 for me. By the end of a month, I should be able to tell if it's helping him.

I may give some to my senior cat, too. She's about 18, and also doing very well for her age, but I'm all for anything that might help her to better absorb nutrients.

(I tried to post a pic of Cody for you, but I got a message telling me the image contained "illegal code". I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work...)

Thanks again for your post.

[greytdemocrat]

154. Thanks for the info

I used digestive enzymes for my epileptic greyhound. He's got digestive problems big time. My vet works with me to try to increase his quality of life and to decrease the # of seizures.

One day I ran out of the digestive enzymes (sent off for them). About the same time my vet recommended giving him a Pepcid AC (or generic equivalent) and combine it with the prescription diet food I/D. Usually I'm afraid of some of the commercial products, but somehow it's worked. He hasn't had a seizure for over 10 months and has been well enough that we actually got new carpeting, the biggest act of faith.

I have a friend with a doctorate in chemistry and would do anything for her hounds. She used to feed raw, but lately for her ill dogs has avoided the raw feeding for certain conditions.

[SiouxJ]

11. Good information Jen

As you know, I've recently been trying to find a soy based dog food for Natasha as I really think that is the key to helping her with her incontinence. I would love to get her off the meds and fix the problem through diet. Soy used to be a common ingredient in dog food but they've taken it out of most brands. I noticed when I put her on Solid Gold, her incontinence got worse as it has no soy in it whatsoever and that's what tipped me off (soy produces a natural form of estrogen in the body, which is what is lacking in some spayed females, which causes incontinence). Of all the high end dog foods commonly available, only Science Diet still has a decent amount of soy in it. Problem there (besides what you've posted above) is that she doesn't like it.

The problem I'm having now is getting my dogs to eat the food. They've never had the cheap stuff so it's not a matter of them being hooked on corn syrup, but they get bored with the food so fast that I'm always switching. I know it's not a good idea to do that but what else can I do? I've had some success with Solid Gold but then there's the lack of soy in it. I've taken to adding soy flour to it but she's not thrilled about it. I am going to look into the links you provided, but trial and error is getting very expensive, so if anyone knows of a safe brand (both ethically and nutritionally), that contains a lot of soy, that their dogs love, I'd appreciate the tip.

I just wanted to mention that my previous dog Rocky lived to be almost 18 and pretty much ate Science Diet his entire life. He always had a shiny coat (people would compliment him on it) and had tons of energy. I don't know where SD falls with regard to the practices listed above but Rocky did very well on it. The ethical questions are another matter and I'll have to be more careful about that in the future. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Lorien]

12. Hey Sioux!

I've done a bit of research and there are several Wysong products, in addition to their Vegan formula food, that contain soy (listed as one of the first five ingredients). Their foods are human grade, organic, and non GMO (no dangerous horomones or antibiotics in their meats, either). You can find more info at www.wysong.net

Science Diet is not made of human grade ingredients, but I suspect that it's at least a little better than the megacorp produced Iams and Eukanuba. I think Rocky lived for so long because of all the exercise and attention he was given, in addition to eating food that wasn't as bad as many of the grocery store brands (like Alpo). My vet says that many dog breeds and most cats have the potential of living 28-30 years, but just as we have the "potential" of living to 120, few do. My vet had one cat that lived to be 28, and the oldest known dog (according to Guiness) is 27...so it's possible!

BTW- Waggintails sells sample packs of their foods, so you can try a few out before investing. You might also e-mail Wysong to see if they offer free samples; it never hurts to ask! ;-)

Hope that helps! :hi:

[SiouxJ]

13. I appreciate all the research you did on this!

You're the best goddess mother a dog can have ;-) .

I'll look into Wysong. The sample packs are a good idea! I've tried her on vegetarian food and she'll eat it for like a day or two and then turns her nose up at it. Boris won't eat it at all.

[kslib]

16. Switch often!

Feeding your pet the same food day in and day out can lead to food allergies (I learned the hard way!), especially with the non-organic food. I fed Bubba exclusively Science Diet Sensitive Skin for 2 years. I'm paying now in high vet costs and meds. His dermatologist said that animals who are fed the same diet all the time often develop food allergies because of the additives and proteins (bad meat!) I'm forwarding this post to his dermatologist so she can have this info too!

[SiouxJ]

19. Yeah, I was just reading some of the sites

Jen posted and noticed they recommend changing foods often. I always heard in the past that you shouldn't do this. It actually makes more sense to do this when you think about it. I remember my Nutrition class back in college- the prof. said you should eat the widest variety of food possible to be healthy. Too much of anything is not a good idea. So it seems I've accidentally been doing the right thing, lol. They get so bored with their food that I've been switching constantly. Maybe they are smarter than I am! They are Border Collies after all ;-) .


My finicky eater Natasha

[kslib]

20. Pretty dog!!

Are border collies hard to live with? I've heard they can be kinda stubborn! They're so beautiful though, I'd think it would make up for any trouble....

[SiouxJ]

21. Thank you! They are absolutely the sweetest dogs you will ever meet

if they are given the proper attention. If you give them the exercise and attention they need, you will have an unbelievably loving, almost human creature on your hands. I'm not kidding, they're like little sweet people. They are so smart that they "get" the idea of expressing affection. They are very passionate and emotional. They are also incredibly well behaved. I always have people telling me my BC's are the most well behaved BC's they've ever seen. They rarely bark and aren't the least bit destructive. If anything, I'd say they are more timid than anything. They get a bad rap for being hyper but that's just because people don't give them a job to do and enough exercise.

To answer your question, Natasha is a tad stubborn at times. For example when I want her to move or go outside to do her business. If you try to move her, she can make her body go so limp that it's like trying to move a ton of bricks! She only weighs 40 lbs, but when she does this, she feels like 100. It's quite annoying when you're sharing a bed with her and trying to get a little leg room ;-) .

She also sometimes looks at me like she's thinking, "I'm the smart one here and I know you can't make me do what I don't want to do." Eventually, if you nudge her along, she'll do what you want though. She has an unbelievable way of making you think she's smarter than you are; it's this "wise" look she gives you.

Boris on the other hand will jump and ask how high. He loves to cooperate.


Natasha giving her "I'm the smart one" look.


This is her "I'm bored mom" look.


Her "If I look at you all sad and adoring, I can get you to play with me" look. (this WORKS btw)


Her most frequent expression - she's a very happy girl.

[Mutley]

36. when you switch it's important to do it over the course of 7-10 days

slowly phasing out the old food. Many dogs and cats will have stomach problems (like diarrhea) if you switch them too fast.

[kslib]

14. Just started Wellness last night!

Bubba is off his food trial after no success. They loved the wellness wet! I'm going to purchase the dry tonight. In our little town, we can't get ahold of any of the other types mentioned. Maybe this will help his GI system and bowels? After reading your post and other links, I have great confidence in food's ability to heal (or hurt). I'll keep everyone posted!

[kslib]

15. I should also mention

that Bubba has severe allergies and Gracie has the feline urological syndrome (idiopathic cystitis). Both are mentioned in your posting. I feel horrible! I thought I was doing right by them by feeding them "premium" foods like Science Diet, Walthams and Eukanuba. I'm disgusted. So many well-meaning pet owners out there don't have a clue. We are led to believe (by our vets and commercials!) that these foods are the best for our animals. I guess we should all be better detectives and label readers!!!

Thanks Lorien, this was a real eye opener!

[Lorien]

17. Hey, I bought the advertising for years, too

it's very compelling. Worse, my vet was pushing Science diet on all her clients; she seemed to be some sort of rep for their company. I've been to doctors that seemed to push Zoloft for every ailment, so I suspect vets are swayed by industry lobbyists in much the same way. When my pet sitter first started to tell me about holistic foods vs. what's really in commercial foods, I admit, I kinda blew her off because she's a little more "new age" than most. But then she brought me articles, and I started doing my own research. The interesting thing is that nobody knows exactly by how much a pet's life will be extended by these human grade, holistic brands; most have only been on the market for 3-10 years. Researchers have seen older animals with chronic ailments improve dramatically with the new diets, but no one knows how a pet raised on these diets since their first year will do. I'm hoping that my younger guys make it to twenty or beyond! My 16 year old seems to have already taken off four years. :-)

[kslib]

18. What, if anything, did you tell your vet?

I'd like some info to give to his dermatologist (so I can take him off the food trial since it doesn't seem to be working) and his regular vet? Keeping in mind I work with them....

[Lorien]

29. I switched vets

I'm now using one that studies traditional, holistic and Chinese medicine (a woman I know said he saved her pug when all other vets had failed to help him). The new vet suggests feeding a wide variety of foods (all holistic brands, of course) ; raw, kibble, freeze dried and canned.

[Mutley]

37. just like human doctors

vets will get paid to push a certian brand of food or medication. Unless it's a certian type of perscription food (in which case there still may be alternatives, but you'd have to get your vet to tell you about them) the vet's recommendation is not always good. A good question to ask yourself is this: Does the vet's office sell the type of food the vet is pushing? If so then likely the vet's main motivation is money, not the health of your pet.

[Princess Turandot]

23. Do you think that Pet Guard isn't good food?..

here is a link to one of 2 flavors that I feed my cats:

http://nationalpetpharmacy.com/store/product_detail.asp?pf%5Fid=30275306KT&dept%5Fid=6&brand%5Fid=304&root%5Fid=&SearchRX=

I just bought a can of Innova which I haven't tried yet. It was paws-down on Felidae & Wellness & Evolve.

Even in NYC, it is difficult to find many of these foods. You need to go to small privately owned places which stock them. Fortunately, there are 2 of them within a 10 minute walk for me. Ordering on line usually costs more because of shipping. If a place has them on sale and doesn't charge sales tax the price is abt the same, so it isn't really worth ordering the food online $-wise.

[ET Awful]

26. My cats enjoy the Pet Guard quite a bit.

There don't seem to be any by-products in it, which is a good sign. They also get Wellness (if I give it to them rarely they eat it, if I give it to them daily, they don't, it's weird).

[virgdem]

40. Another person here who champions Petguard...

I've been feeding my guys Petguard since 1999, when it was prescribed for one of my cats with IBD (Intestinal Bowel Disease), and it cleared up most of the problem. My other cats love it and eat it on a daily basis. It has human grade ingredients, no by-products, fillers, or sugars. I would recommend it to anyone. By the way, Quinn is an absolute cutie - I love that pix of him as a kitten.

[serryjw]

44. Another vote for Petguard

I buy it at Wild Oats but can also buy it online.
http://www.petguard.com/

[Lorien]

30. I don't know much about that brand

but it's not considered a "commercial" brand, and it's carried in many health food chains, so it's probably pretty good.

As KSLib said, giving them a variety of flavors and brands is best; costly food allergies can develop if they get the same thing day after day. It's also easier to have a few brands around that you know your pet will eat, just in case their "favorite" becomes temporarily unavailable, or another brand you've tried and know that they enjoy goes on sale.

[greytdemocrat]

155. PetGuard

I had used Pet Guard for years for my greyhounds. I only stopped when Wild Oats (sigh, no longer in existence here) had such erratic shipments. I'd go for it and it wasn't available. My epileptic dog had major problems when I switched food. After a week on an IV at the vet, decided to get a food that was consistantly available and that he could tolerate.

Pet Guard added a good 3 or 4 months, maybe more, to a greyhound with cancer. I think it's very good.

[Phentex]

24. How does anyone afford those prices? I have two large dogs.

The costs for those range from $30 to more than $50 for only 25 to 40 pounds of food (which is not a ton of food for two 65 pound plus animals). At that cost, the dogs would be eating better than the humans in this house. My dogs have no health problems. I just don't see how we could afford to pay for the best natural pet foods. What are the rest of us to do?

[livetohike]

25. Same situation here

My dogs weigh 45 lbs. and 86 lbs. They go through a 20 lb. bag of dry food every two weeks and I also give them some canned food (split a can) every day.

I've always had large dogs. If I fed them the higher end natural dog food, they would "eat me out of house and home". My last two dogs Lab/Shepherd mixes lived to be 13.5 and 16 years old. They didn't have health problems until the end. I fed them Pedigree, Alpo, Purina One, etc. I mixed it up from bag to bag never feeding them only one type of dry food.

Maybe I have just been lucky :shrug:.

[emilyg]

159. Same here

I have 6 cats and also feed about 8 strays. Can't afford anything expensive. My cats do OK on Friskies and a good hairball dry food.

[retread]

27. How much of the brand you are now feeding is filler? Most of the

premium foods are food; so you can reduce the amount you feed.

It will still cost more but not as much as you think. Major brands are now offering a premium product. I have a friend with 4 dogs who has switched to the Chicken Soup brand and she says it is no more expensive than her previous brand.

[Phentex]

28. I did some googling, but I can't find a comparison.....

I'll check out some of the stores that sell this food and see what I can find out. I'd love to be able to feed them something healthier. I just can't go broke doing it! :)

[peacebuzzard]

47. I know what you mean. I have 4 healthy appetite dogs and a cat

And I have known this problem for a long time. I actually have tried to live alternative life styles, but ultimately, I must work full time to pay for my home, and to feed myself and the dogs. It is very frustrating, but I am so over bad food, bad air, bad water. At least I made a small progress yesterday--I bought a Brita water filter and attached it to my kitchen faucet to give the pets filtered water now. They would only drink this lousy tap water when they were exceptionally thirsty. I could tell the difference immediately. For years I have bought bottled water for myself and would feel bad giving the tap junk water to the dogs ( I don't even like to use the water for bathing) But soon I have got to do something about the food. I just can't afford anything else right now.

[RebelOne]

131. I felt the same way about the tap water for my dogs.

I would drink bottled water because my tap water was really bad. I felt guilty about giving it to the dogs, so I bought a Brita water filter pitcher for their water.

[glinda]

201. People don't realize that water quality is just as important. It is

better to buy a filter than to buy or refill plastic bottles. We bit the bullet and spent about $700 on a good table top model and have noticed a difference in health as well as in taste.

[CC]

160. With mine I find that all the animals

eat less Evo (what they all get) than their old food. In the end the cost is the same or equal. The dogs get the amount of Evo recommended for their size. My 100+ lb dog gets 4 cups the smaller ones about 3/4 a cup daily. The big boy's old food recommended 6 cups a day. The cats are free fed on dry food and get 1 can of wet a day. (Some of them refuse to eat canned food.) I have five cats and used to go through 20 lbs of Purina every two weeks of dry. They now eat about 15 lbs of Evo every 5 weeks. Two are diabetic and have to have a low carb high protein food. The vet feels Evo is as good for those two as the DM he sells. Since there are 5 it was easier to have them all on the same food. The vet also feels that had they always been on a better food two might not be diabetic. One of my cats still gets insulin though the other hasn't needed it for over a year now after a year on it. At around a hundred bucks a vial I figure the better food is saving me even more. Litter box clean up is easier (and less) too so we don't use as much litter since the higher quality the less goes in the less goes out. The ferrets have always ate Evo and Zupreme ferret food so I don't have any comparisons on them.

[TorchTheWitch]

193. I find this to be true

I used to feed my 100lb. Akita Iams, but then they switched the formula and he suddenly started having really bad stomach problems. For the past year and a half now he's been getting Newman's Own which is about $20 more expensive for the giant sized bag. The Newman's Own bag is ever so slightly larger than the Iams bag (by a pound or two), yet it lasts the dog for a month and a half rather than the single month when he was eating Iams. He's eating less, but he hasn't lost any weight and even gained a bit (I'm guessing that's because his body is using the better food rather than just pooping out a bunch of useless fillers that were in the old food).

So, even though I'm spending a lot more for roughly the same sized bag of food, it's lasting so much longer that it turns out to be cheaper than if I'd still been feeding him the Iams!

What a difference better food makes! He's healthier, happier, and he likes the food a whole lot better. He's never once had any digestive problems since switching his food either, and makes perfect poop like clockwork (I'm so envious of this!).

Feeding better food also translates to less trips to the vet or having to clean or even replace things the dog's had accidents on because of stomach upset, which is a lot bigger savings in the end.

[glinda]

202. Evo has been a great food but watch this next year on the ingredients

because they were bought out by Procter & Gamble.We feed our four large dogs Evo.

[glinda]

180. I have five dogs and feed Evo and

make my own wet food. I go through about 2 bags a month. One of my dogs is 100 lbs.

[Catherina]

200. They need less food when it's quality. It also cuts down on vet bills

due to the health benefits. The teeth remain cleaner too.

[Lorien]

32. Just got a new dry food at my holistic pet food store

that the kitties just LOVE; it's called Innova Evo cat and kitten food. It contains NO GRAINS and no GMO ingredients. Also, many of the ingredients are uncooked (I think they were freeze dried, though). I'm going to try feeding my fat Miro the stuff for a while to see if it helps him with his weight issues.

Just a heads up for those of you with diabetic or overweight cats! (comes in a copper bag with a tiger photo on the logo).

[mockmonkey]

120. I had a problem with Evo

I had been feeding our 4 cats Evo for about 6 months and I got a hold of a bad batch. None of the cats would touch it. I purchased a smaller bag with a different date on it and they ate it fine. I notified Innova and they told me to return the bag to the pet store, which I did with no problem. It scared me off from using Evo. They are now eating Innova Adult and I haven't had any problems.

[CC]

121. Did they say why it

was bad? Was it out of date? Wondering because I use Evo for all my furries.

[mockmonkey]

122. It wasn't out of date

They left it up to me if I wanted to send them a sample but that was in an second e-mail I received AFTER I had already returned it to the pet store. They didn't seem that concerned and as far as I know nobody else returned a batch with the same date to the store. Maybe because it was a new product at the time something went wrong with that particular bag. It didn't smell or look different, but all 4 cats refused to touch it. The next bag I bought with a different code date was perfectly fine again.

I got nervous about it and decided to stick with the regular Adult Innova. This pet food scare has everyone second guessing everything. I might try some of the other dry foods mentioned here for variety. I can only find one pet store near here that sells these lesser known brands.

In the end we don't really know what is in the food or if there is an agency that actually checks them out anymore. I keep thinking about that crummy movie where they kill people and make them into pet food.

[CC]

123. Thanks for letting me know.

One of my cats is diabetic and another one was (still being watched though). Neither would eat any of the prescription foods so my vet and I searched for something that was low carb that they would eat. Evo was it and since being on it Ayja is off insulin and Karma uses a lot less so I am afraid to change their diet. Once the vet did whatever (he took some food and tested it to be sure of content etc.) he started recommending it to others with finicky diabetic cats. It is difficult to find any of the other foods since I live in a rural area. I lucked out on the Evo and can buy it through a local rescue I help with. At least I know when they get it and how they store it and any profits helps pay vet bills and feed rescues. I could probably get regular Innova too but that doesn't help with the diabetics.

I know what you mean about second guessing after this food scare. Then again after the scares with spinach and all the other for human foods it is all scary. I try to buy local any more, like direct from the farmer. Rural has its advantages. Agri-business no matter who the food is for seems to be a very dangerous way to go and even worse under the idiot. Between the idiot letting corporations run wild, cutting budgets for over site agencies,and forcing out those that try to do there jobs properly it is hard to even think about trusting.

[glinda]

181. Doesn't Innova have too much C in it????

[Lorien]

33. I'm kicking this

since there have been a few questions about healthy pet foods on this board lately. :hi:

[Mutley]

34. Feeding your pets commercial food is like eating at McDonald's everyday

Iams and Eukanuba allegedly test on animals. See www.iamscruelty.com You can find decently priced holistic foods that are much better for your pets. One good one is Performatrin Ultra, available at Pet Valu. It's a little pricey, but not as bad as many of the holistic foods out there.

[ernstbass]

38. I'm making my own pet food

after reading these posts fot he past several months. Thanks to all for enlightening me about what I have been feeding my dogs. It really hasn't been as much trouble as I thought to prepare thier food.

[Lorien]

41. Do you use the B.A.R.F recommendations?

(Bones And Raw Food)?

[ernstbass]

42. No not really

My dogs get bones regularly (beef with lots of marrow). I'm using a recipe w/ brown rice, sweet potaotes and chicken but I supplement with carrots, green beans, and other veggies - sometimes barley (veggies are organic) - I'mnot cooking the veggies to mush but I do cook them a bit.

[flvegan]

39. My dogs, as well as the dogs in my rescue, are all vegetarian.

Except the puppies. Puppies get high-quality meat based food without byproducts, etc.

[Critters2]

99. My dog gets vegan food from a company that states its wheat

source is in Kansas--not China. nlpp.com

The company from which I get the cats' food also identifies Midwestern grain sources. petpromiseinc.com

I guess I chose more carefully than I realized.

[iconoclastic cat]

43. Hey, what's your opinion of the Nutra brand "Indoor Cat" food?

I've heard some people say it's not good, and others say it's the same as Wellness. What gives?

[Robeson]

45. Kicking. Its important info. that needs to be revisited.

[Mutley]

46. Iams tests on animals, too.

www.iamscruelty.com Also, Iams and Eukenuba come from the same company.

Giving your pets commercial food everyday is like you eating at McDonalds everyday. If you haven't seen Supersize Me, you should: commercial foods will have similar effects on animals over long term use.

The most healthy thing to do would be to make your pet's food yourself with human quality food. This website - http://www.astrostar.com/make-your-own-pet-food.htm - is a good one to look at for that. There are also a lot of books on the subject.

But not everyone has the time or money to do that. There are premuim foods that are almost as good. Royal Canin is excellent, but very expensive. Nutro is good, and the price is a little better. If you live in Canada, the Northeast of the Us, or the Mid-Atlantic of the Us, you can get Performatrin at Pet Valu which is a good food, and costs even less than Nutro. There are a lot of other good foods out there, too. Just experiment a little to see what your pet likes.

[Seedersandleechers]

48. I feed only fresh raw meat , bones, and organs

in appropriate doses. My cats have never eaten any commercial food. In fact, their mother ate 5lbs of raw meat every day while she was nursing my cats. I never have to take my cats to the Vet, and OMG I don't believe in vaccines. Especially indoor cats. What the heck are they going to get 9 floors up and concrete all around. I have a lot more chances of messing up their immune system with vaccinations then saving them from rabies or distemper.

[AirmensMom]

64. Good for you, KCdemocrat!

I had to learn the hard way -- I almost lost my abys on the commercial "high quality" junk. They've been on raw rabbit and chicken (and sometimes game hen) since June and are doing great. It took me a few months to get my sister to switch her dogs, but now she's a true convert. I asked her why she hesitated and she said she has no idea. The dogs are doing great on raw. :)

Ditto on the vaccinations. Our new vet looked at our cats' records and saw a definite correlation between a vaccination and the onset of IBD. My new vet wrote some good articles about the problems with vaccinations.

[femmedem]

78. Do you add any supplements?

Or is the raw food/bones enough? Do you use mainly poultry?
I have one finicky cat whom I tried to feed raw four or five years ago, and he wouldn't switch. But I have an asthmatic one-year-old whom I think would probably adapt.

[Seedersandleechers]

84. I use whole ground rabbit which includes the fir. My holistic vet

told me that was sufficient. However, they get fresh deer meat so I add a little organ meat, bone, and fat, but not much. There is a whole society of holistic vets and if you want I can send you the link. If there is one in your area they will work with you regarding the raw diet.

[Holly_Hobby]

81. I feed raw too

To my 4 dogs. The changes are nothing short of astounding. It's actually cheaper than the Timberwolf Organics kibble I was feeding. I use the prey model diet, which is nothing more than a bunch of different body parts from as many different animals as available here. No supplements except salmon oil since fish is too expensive here. They get bones wrapped in the meat and organs and nothing else.

It's funny, now that they don't get the last bite of our food, they don't beg anymore.

My vet volunteers at the Iditarod every year. Guess what they feed the musher dogs? Raw meaty bones and organs.

No vaccines for my pups, either. They have inherited disorders (Collies), so I get a waiver for the rabies vaccines. It may seem extreme to do that, but I had 3 very chronically ill dogs previous, due to over-vaccination and commercial food. Never again!

One of my dogs is a 12 year old Collie with cancer. He's had dry eye and dandruff all his life. Two weeks after switching to raw, the dry eye and dandruff disappeared, never to return. His coat used to be cottony, now it's a normal Collie coat. That was enough to convince me I'm doing the right thing.

[Lorien]

82. Done properly, I really believe that raw is best

my serval hybrid ate raw and was in fairly good shape-except his previous owner had never exercised him, so he was QUITE the specimen once he was conditioned. My domestic cats won't tolerate it, so I feed them freeze dried raw (the next best thing) as often as possible.

One of the best looking, healthiest dogs I ever met was a wolf/ malamute mix named Nakoma. Her owner was totally devoted to her and he contacted many animal nutritionists to develop the healthiest home made raw diet possible for her. She never had fleas or allergies (and he never gave her flea treatments or bathed her), and she was incredibly calm and well mannered, considering her mix. A great raw diet can really make a difference!

[Lorien]

49. Nutro: a Red company with "pet grade" ingredients

I used to feed my cats Nutro until I learned about WHERE that meat was coming from; it's "pet grade"; spoiled carcasses, downer animals, slaughter house sweepings, etc. Royal Canin is also "pet grade", but it's pet grade under Canadian laws, therefore I doubt if it's quite as vile as American pet grade products (though I'm not certain of that).

I feed Innova Evo and Organix dry and Merrick, Prairie Nature's variety, Wellness, Solid Gold, and Pinnacle canned and freeze dried foods. I also feed Brother's blend raw diet when I can afford it. All of these brands are human grade, and in many cases are as good or even better than homemade (Google the ingredient lists-you'll be impressed).

On edit: a sample from Innova Evo's manufactuer:

Innova EVO Cat & Kitten

Evolutionary Diet for the Modern Feline

Innova EVO Cat & Kitten food was created to supply the key nutritional benefits of a raw food diet in a safe and convenient manner. Innova EVO can be fed exclusively as a total diet for your pet or in combination with a raw diet to provide a solid nutritional base of the important vitamins and minerals your feline might otherwise be missing.

Innova EVO is based on ground chicken and turkey meat, bones, fat, cartilage and connective tissue. It includes whole, raw fruits and vegetables which contain health promoting phytochemicals and micronutrients. EVO has Hi-Protein, Low-Carbs, and No Grains.

* Innova EVO Cat & Kitten is made WITHOUT GRAINS
* Innova EVO Cat & Kitten has the HIGHEST MEAT CONTENT of any dry cat food
* Innova EVO Cat & Kitten contains 50% PROTEIN, 22% FAT, and only 7% CARBOHYDRATES, the lowest in the industry
* Innova EVO Cat & Kitten is made with the same ingredients as you might find in a typical ''wild'' feline diet - RAW, MEATY BONES & cartilage, veggies & fruit.
* Innova EVO Cat & Kitten has ADDED PROBIOTICS & PREBIOTICS.
* Innova EVO Cat & Kitten is EXTREMELY PALATABLE
* Innova EVO Cat & Kitten is formulated for ALL LIFE STAGES

Innova EVO Cat & Kitten food is the first dry cat food made with absolutely no grains. Another Natura Pet Products first! This formula truly connects with the carnivore in your cat.

Innova EVO Cat & Kitten food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials) Cat Food Nutrient Profiles for all life stages.

Innova EVO is available in 15.4 lb., 6.6 lb., and 2.2 lb. packages.

Innova EVO... What to feed when you can't feed raw.

*The chicken Natura uses is not only human grade, but also tested to be free of hormones, antibiotics and pesticides, as well as chemical preservatives such as BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin. Natura does not add these harmful ingredients, and they are not present in the ingredients we use. This is an important distinction, because manufacturers are not required to list substances that are present in the ingredients when they go into the pet food.

More: http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=product-detail&pxsl=%2F%2Fproduct%5B%40id%3D%271255%27%5D

Prairie Nature's variety:

INGREDIENTS:
Chicken, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Ground Chicken Bone, Ground Turkey Bone, Apples, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Ground Flax Seeds, Chicken Eggs, Montmorillonite, Dried Kelp, Salmon Oil, Cold Pressed Olive Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Persimmons, Blueberries, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Garlic, Alfalfa Sprouts, Barley Sprouts, Millet Sprouts, Quinoa Sprouts, Wheat Sprouts, Inulin, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.

More:http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/Nature_s_Variety_Freeze_Dried_Diets_p/131056.htm
Organix:

INGREDIENTS: Organic Chicken, Herring Meal, Organic Peas, Organic Soybean Meal, Organic Barley, Organic Brown Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tochopherols, Rosemary, and Citric Acid), Organic Extruded Soybean Seeds, Natural Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Organic Flaxseed, Salmon Meal, Salt, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Niacin, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Ascorbic Acid+, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamin Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Vitamin K), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Dried Fermentation Products of Saccharomyces Cerevisia, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Aspergillus Niger, Enterococcus Faecum, Trichoderma Longbrachiatum, and Bacillus Subtilis (sources of direct fed microbials and digestive enzymes).

[Robeson]

50. Lorien, I'm in a quandry about pet food...

...I know I've written you before about what type of good healthy food to put my cats on. It took forever to ween them off of Iams, and I thought Nutro would be a good interim food until I could figure out what I needed to do. Of course, after reading your horror stories, I now want to get them off of that ASAP.

It seems that there are so many, that it makes it confusing. My cats are used to the chicken based foods. What is a good, tasty, healthy food and brand you would suggest that I use to start them off with? I realize I will need to mix it up down the road, but what would be a good first one? I bought some Pet Guard treats to give them, in order to see if they would like that brand, and they walked off and wouldn't even touch them. I want to get them on something quick, but by the same margin, I want them to like it and eat it. What would you suggest for a first one that is chicken based?

Thanks so much!

[Lorien]

51. Wet, dry or both?

Innova Evo, Organix and Artemis Fresh Mix are all chicken based and get "paws up" from my cats and all the fosters. The Innova Evo is the most widely accepted, followed by the Artemis fresh mix and then the Organix. My cats don't care for the regular Innova or the regular Artemis (only the "Fresh mix"). The cats also won't eat Petguard or Newman's own-a pity, because both are good brands and easy to find. Merrick's "Grammy's pot pie", "Thanksgiving dinner" and "Turducken" (eeewww...gross name!) all have chicken and turkey with gravy, and most kitties go for it. As far as Wellness goes, my cats only like the beef and chicken and trout flavors. Artemis makes a canned chicken that goes over fairly well, too. Also, Natural Balance ultra formula (available at PetCo) is chicken based and seems to appeal to most cats.

Ask your local holistic pet food retailer for samples. Most of the brands that I've mentioned provide sample packs to their distributors.

Good luck!

:hi:

As a side note; my local holistic retailer offered me a job last week at their shop because I seem to know more about their products than they do, lol! Well, at least I know I have someplace to go if the illustration business dries up. ;-)

[Robeson]

53. Thanks Lorien. That helps me to narrow it down....

Also, since you asked, my kitties eat dry food.

I've looked at some sites, and it says there are 6 stores in my area that sell the Innova Evo. I also saw on the web a lot of good reviews on that one. I think I'll try that first.

As always, thanks for your help!...:thumbsup:

On edit: I meant to congratulate you on their job offer! You said you had a current job, as do I, but I often think how nice it would be to actually do something that helps and benefits things I care about on a daily basis! Obviously, you've made an impact with that store!...:thumbsup:

[Lorien]

55. Thanks Robeson!

I do my adoptions for our rescue group from out of that store, so I try to help the customers when the staff gets overwhelmed (since they've been so kind in allowing the space for the adoptions and have helped with donations and such). They've been calling me their "honorary employee" for months now,lol! It's been educational for me because I've really needed to get to know the products to help the customers with their specific issues (dogs who are on low protein diets and can't eat wheat, or cats with urinary tract issues, for example). Fortunately, more and more people are becoming aware of the dangers of commercial pet foods-so much so that Pookie's is now opening a second location in our town!

The Innova Evo is a brand new product, and so far every cat and kitten I've given it to loves it! Let us know the verdict from your guys. :hi:

[femmedem]

80. a problem with EVO

The lowest carbohydrate dry food on the market is Natura/Innova's EVO but it is very high in phosphorus so this food is not recommended for cats with compromised kidney function - even for a short period of time. Other choices include Nature's Variety, Felidae, or Wellness. Be sure to stay away from any "light" varieties as those types of foods are very high in carbohydrates.

www.catinfo.org

Thank you so much for this thread. :hi:

[Lorien]

83. Thanks for the heads up!

I've been cutting back on Evo now that other grain free foods are available. Oberon still likes Organix and Artemis best, neither of which are grain free. I've been trying to get him on Wellness Core and Prairie Nature's Variety freeze dried raw diet. He finally seems to be taking to the freeze dried stuff, thank goodness. He would never touch fresh raw food, so this seems like the next best thing. Thankfully, he's very good about drinking regularly, so that's not a big concern.

Oberon will be four years old April 30th, and neither he nor Puck is even slightly overweight. Maine Coons have a tendency to gain weight easily, so I think the low grain/ no grain diet is working!

[glinda]

182. Our dogs on Evo but it is too strong for our cats

Not all cats can eat Evo. Sometimes it is too much protein and we have one that blows up like a balloon.

[Napoleon Dynamite]

52. Thank you everyone for all the info and links

I'm always looking for information on how to take better care of my little kitty. I've been reading on food for a while now, and have changed my cat food from Science Diet (recommended to me by the rescue worker) to Natural Balance, and now Wellness. I'll probably give Innove EVO a try also after reading about it. If only I spend so much time and energy on my own diet. :)

Lorien, I just love to read your posts. You have such great information, plus I get to see those gorgeous cats of yours in the sig line. :)

[Lorien]

56. Thanks Napoleon Dynamite!

and a belated welcome to DU! :hi:

I've managed to get off processed foods and eat mostly organic-but damn, it's expensive! Kind of freaks me out that a lot of crops these days are genetically modified to resist stuff like Roundup-which they are doused with on a regular basis! How can that NOT be really unhealthy for anyone consuming the stuff?

If I had only not watched "Bill Moyer's NOW" for all those years, I could still be blissfully ignorant of all sorts of frightening Big Agricultural practices. *Sigh* I swear, sometimes I think Big Ag and Big Pharma are in some kind of unholy alliance. :tinfoilhat:

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

54. I feed mine Artemis holistic blend.

They love it!

[BrklynLiberal]

57. time to give this essential thread an end year kick

[AirmensMom]

58. My cats eat raw food.

The abys have recovered from kidney problems, inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), skin rashes, and severe weight loss after 6 months on raw food. Our old vet was pushing IVD, which made them ALL vomit and gave them bad diarrhea. She was clueless. I found www.catinfo.org and it saved the life of my little Satchmo. He and his mom, Sabrina, had gotten dangerously thin. They've both gained over 2.5 pounds and are completely healthy without meds. We also got a holistic vet who actually knows something about pet nutrition. He considers raw food to be the best food available. Cats are obligate carnivores and must have meat, not all that other junk. A pleasant side-effect of the raw diet is that they make tiny poops that don't smell at all and they have wonderfully soft fur and nice breath.

The only other thing we will feed is Wellness canned, but it would have to be an extreme emergency. Satchmo's poops turn stinky and soft on it b/c he can't tolerate the fruits and veggies. I will never again feed dry food of any kind to them.

Thanks, lorien, for starting this discussion. Nutrition is the first place we should start when trying to help our pets.

[demnan]

59. Thanks for all this info

I'm going to try to switch my cats to raw food. My half-Abby Lily has a dry hacking cough from hairballs and may benefit from this. The Siamese has a sensitive stomach even to the better dry foods. Charley of course can eat anything and will, but after spending close to 60 dollars on canned wet cat food yesterday and then reading all this, I think I might just make the switch.

[AirmensMom]

60. Hey, demnan!

We have saved SO much money on vet bills because our cats aren't getting sick anymore. It is more expensive to feed raw, but it's so worth it.

After everything I've read and experienced, I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a "good dry food". It's too bad so many veterinarians recommend and sell it.

I have an easy recipe, based on the one from www.catinfo.org but customized by Dr. Lisa for my IBD kitties. We get the ground raw rabbit and chicken from www.hare-today.com, but we also buy game hens from Whole Foods and grind our own when we want to feed something different.

Good luck with the switch. If you need any help or want my recipe, PM me. :hi:

BTW, what's up with Charley? First he/she was Charley, then Charlotte, and now Charley again? I'm confused. :silly:

[demnan]

66. Thanks I will pm you

I've ordered the meat grinder. I tried them on raw kidney last night that I pulsed in the Food Processor but none would touch it. Guess I'll stick with poultry. I hope to gradually wean them off the canned wet food, but it would be hard to feed them anything but the dry food in the morning, I catch my car pool very early (6:00 am) in the morning.

I thought Charley was a girl because he is so vocal. When he was outside he would come to the window at night and meow, especially if Pad Thai was in the window. I'd go to the window and he'd run away. He was asking Pad Thai's permission to come live with us, but I thought he was in season. Then he moved in. It seems he is just very vocal. He is also growing very big.

[AirmensMom]

68. Ohhhhhhh! I get it now!

So you didn't look under his tail and get it wrong. :rofl: Thanks for the explanation!

Hmm, not sure mine would have taken to kidney right away. As it is, they don't know if they're getting it (it's ground up with the rest of the meat). I'll be looking for your PM. :hi:

[femmedem]

117. Lily might have asthma, not hairballs.

Asthma attacks look similar: head down, neck extended, heaving sides. Sometimes you'll see them swallow afterward, if they've coughed up some phlegm.

[MsTryska]

62. Dolla's poop does the same thing on Wellness Canned

he develops what i like to call "pudding poop".

now that his thryoid meds are upped he's getting a firmer stool than he's ever had tho. now i jsut need to cure him of his butt-scooting problem. he's leaving skid marks on my carpet.

[japple]

67. How severe were your cats' kidney problems? Just diagnosed

or had they been under treatment for some period of time? My 12 yr. old cat Tiny has been losing weight and I took him to the vet yesterday for bloodwork. They called me back and said to bring him in tomorrow for urine specimin, that his kidney "readings" were high. He has been eating mostly wet commercial catfood all of his life and has been remarkably healthy, but this weight loss and high consumption of water have appeared in the past few months. I know it's too soon to panic, but I want to be as proactive as possible and if making my own catfood is the only way to go, then I'm willing to do it.

My other cat, Oscar, is on a restricted calorie dry food, but he has a weight problem and the vet said that we needed to bring his weight down before we tried to change his eating habits. He is a shelter kitty who has the "starving kitty syndrome" and begs for food all the time. I know it must be because he is literally starved for the right kind of food, and I know it will be a real challenge to help him change his behavior. He refuses to eat anything but dry cat food and 1 tbsp. of cream--his daily treat.

You sound like you have really done a great job turning your cats' health around. How hard was it? I read the article you linked above, and agree that the author makes a lot of sense. I don't think my vet knows a lot about nutrition, however caring she might otherwise be.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

[AirmensMom]

69. Just diagnosed

He was going to have a dental and the vet said he wouldn't live long enough for the dental to matter. He had been under treatment for inflamatory bowel disease and was not doing well. My current vet actually thinks that the steroids and prescription diet made him worse. He also told me that he's seen pets come back from the brink of death with a good (raw) diet.

We figured we didn't have anything to lose, so it was really easy for us to decide. My vet also has some good articles on his website, www.therightremedy.com. Look under "Pet Health Articles" on the left and you'll see a bunch, including one on CRF. For some reason, his links all go to his home page, so I can't link you directly to the article. I don't use his recipe, but he has given my recipe a nod. :) We get ground whole rabbit (not the ones with fur) and chicken from www.hare-today.com. (Rabbit is better for them, but chicken is cheaper.) Then we add B-complex, taurine, vitamin E, Wild Salmon Oil, and water according to the recipe on catinfo.org. You can leave the vitamin E and Wild Salmon Oil out at first, in case your cats don't like it.

Restricted calorie dry food never helped our overweight kitties. They only ate MORE of it and it gave them dandruff b/c it didn't have enough fat in it. One of our kitties doesn't like to try anything new and she was a dry food junkie, but we were able to switch her without much problem. If you mixed that cream into Oscar's new raw food, I'm SURE he would switch very quickly. Just decrease the cream gradually and he will be 100% raw in no time. Since you don't leave the food out all day, you would have control over how much he eats.

I can honestly say that my kitties (his mother was also very sick from IBD, but not kidney problems) started to look and feel better within days. Their diarrhea (from IBD) went away immediately. Their fur was noticeably softer within 2 weeks, and they gained weight within a month. They had been losing weight very quickly, so that's a big turn-around. We had to make the decision to fire our vet, though, because she wouldn't support our decision to feed raw food. (Dr. Swift, from therightremedy.com, is our new vet.) Most vets do not know much about nutrition. The vet who wrote www.catinfo.org knows a LOT about nutrition.

I hope that helps. Feel free to PM me. I hope your kitty gets better. :hug:

[MsTryska]

61. there's also the nasty rumors about euthanized pets

making their way into pet food as well.



bottom line for me is this:

kibble is still kibble.


i've gotten myself a meat grinder and i've been making my pets their food for the last few years.

[AirmensMom]

63. I'm with you, MsTryska!

I've heard that rumor ... and am not so sure it's a rumor. The pet food companies don't REALLY care if your pet is healthy. It's all about money for them.

[Lorien]

65. "Protein plants"

yeah, I've read that too. Road kill, euthanized animals from shelters, zoos, even police horses. Cannibalism leads to awful things. Livestock that dies of "mysterious illnesses" often find their way to protein plants and end up in pet food and....livestock feed. :puke:

[Duppers]

70. Recalls: 17 deaths linked to pet food contamination

Company recalls tainted pet food
17 deaths may be linked to pet food contaminated with fungi

Thursday, December 22, 2005; Posted: 11:41 p.m. EST (04:41 GMT)


CNN) -- One of the nation's largest dog food producers has recalled some of its products in 22 states after receiving reports that they caused death and illness, a company executive said Thursday.

In a letter to thousands of its suppliers, Diamond Pet Food announced it found aflatoxin in products made at its Gaston, South Carolina, plant, said Chief Operating Officer Mark Brinkmann.

Products made at the Gaston facility are shipped to Alabama, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia, Vermont and Virginia.

Five cat food products and 14 dog food products were recalled.

The affected products:

• Diamond Low Fat Dog Food

• Diamond Hi-Energy Dog Food

• Diamond Maintenance Dog Food

• Diamond Performance Dog Food

• Diamond Premium Adult Dog Food

• Diamond Puppy Food

• Diamond Maintenance Cat Food

• Diamond Professional Cat Food

• Country Value Puppy

• Country Value Adult Dog

• Country Value High Energy Dog

• Country Value Adult Cat Food

• Professional Chicken & Rice Senior Dog Food

• Professional Reduced Fat Chicken & Rice Dog Food

• Professional Adult Dog Food

• Professional Large-Breed Puppy Food

• Professional Puppy Food

• Professional Reduced Fat Cat Food

• Professional Adult Cat Food


http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/22/dog.deaths/index.html

[BrklynLiberal]

71. kick for an excellent thread for 2006

[BrklynLiberal]

72. Time for another kick for this thread

[hashibabba]

73. Thanks for the kick...

There is a vet not too far from me who carries Artemis. I believe in feeding my dogs as well as I feed myself. So I'd also always thought a good (read: expensive) dog food and vitamins were all I needed.
Next, they'll be eating meals with me! :9
At least my dogs love veggies, as I make salad nearly every day and give them some of it.

[BrklynLiberal]

74. No problem. this thread needs to be brought to the top every three

months or so..it has so much valuable information.

[melnjones]

75. I love blue buffalo pet foods!!!!

www.bluebuff.com

Now sold in PetSmart stores nationwide.

[glinda]

183. They were on the recall list from two years ago.

[Eurobabe]

76. Anybody heard of Yarrah from the UK?

Just found it here in Germany, fat cat LOVES :loveya: it. It's all organic.

Makes for loudest purrs I have ever heard....

[nicknameless]

77. This great thread needs another kick

[BrklynLiberal]

85. Great idea!!!!

[AirmensMom]

86. And another kick

to put it above the spam threads. :kick:

[nicknameless]

88. Hey, BrklynLiberal

Nice to see you :hi:

[Bluestar]

87. Hi Lorien thanks for this information

Thanks to one of your earlier posts, I found these holistic brands. I had been looking for something to feed my two kitties to no avail, then I found your post! I've had the girls on Wellness and Innova (grain-free) for about 6 weeks. They are losing weight, their coats are beautiful, no shedding and act like kittens again.

They have been overweight on the commercial food and I was at my wit's end. My so-called vet recommended Hill's Science Diet (she sells it) with extra fiber and assured me they would lose weight. So expensive and they gained even more weight!! I was completely exasperated until I found your posts. Thank God for DU and all the caring people here. If I had continued with her advice I might have put them in danger and they would still be getting fatter.

One thing I noticed, the commercial food is flavored so that cats crave it--it makes them hungrier and hungrier. It's probably the corn syrup and gluten. The cats eat about 35% of the amount of the organic food than they used to eat of the commercial. On commercial food, they were always hungry. So those who think it is too expensive, it can work out about the same. I have found good prices at www.animalworldnetwork.com.

[Lorien]

89. Hi Bluestar!

I'm so happy that I could be of help! Yes, I think it's the corn products in the commercial foods which make it addictive. I'm hypoglycemic myself, and both corn syrup and gluten spike my blood sugar so dramatically that I must stay away from most of the processed foods that contain them. The blood sugar spike makes me feel starved, and I even start to sweat like mad if I don't eat right away. I wonder if the same happens to our pets? I know that diabetes in pets is on the rise, so I suspect that the corn additives have contributed to that.

My neighbors have an obese cat that they adopted from the rescue group I work with. Their vet pushes Purina (who also lobbies vets the way Hill's does). The "weight loss formula" only made him fatter as well. I can't convince them to change his diet because they really trust their vet, so I'll just have to hope that their beloved kitty doesn't become diabetic. :-(

An above poster mentioned that Innova Evo can be tough on cats with kidney problems (too much phosphorus) so I'm cutting back to one week a month with it for my kitties. Wellness also now offers CORE, which is grain free. There's other new products like Canada's Orijen, and Serengeti made by Wolf Creek organics, which don't contain grains. More and more to chose from now that vet's and pet owners are getting hip to what's being put in those commercial foods!

Thanks for the link-they've got a good assortment on there. :hi:

[Bluestar]

93. Oh, your kitties are so cute

Your tuxedo looks just like mine--same markings! I feel so much better now that they are losing weight. Tell your neighbor my story.

I have gluten intolerance and Type 2 diabetes (steroid-induced). I have become so aware of what gluten can do to humans that I didn't want anything to do with grain or gluten for my cats. Why do they put it in cat food of any kind? Cats require protein and fat--that's it. If they were in the wild they would eat mice and rats. I have just ordered Wellness' Core product but I am trying to keep them mostly on wet food as it has the highest protein content. At least until they lose the weight. They crave the dry stuff, so I have to give them some. Thanks for the information on Innova.

I remember the conversation I had with my vet when I told her I thought they needed more protein. She said, "what, Catkins?" like it was a big joke. Then she pushed the Science Diet. I think some vets (like medical doctors) know nothing about nutrition.

I think it's disgraceful that companies make products like Science Diet and the upscale Purina and charge such high prices for it. This recall is showing that it's all made from the same stuff. What a rip-off of caring pet owners!

[Lorien]

94. I agree, that stuff IS a total rip off!

I just posted this on a thread about the recalled food, where one DUer claiming to be "DU's resident Vet" had been pushing her favorite product, Hill's Science Diet:

Here's what's in my kitties favorite, Prairie Nature's Variety freeze dried raw diet:

http://www.naturesvariety.com/content.lasso?page=1335&-...

Ingredients
Chicken, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Hearts, Pumpkinseeds, Ground Chicken Bone, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseeds, Chicken Eggs, Montmorillonite Clay, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Kelp, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Persimmons, Olive Oil, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid, Sage, Clove

My cats also get a Wellness multivitamin to boost their taurine, though both Turkey Liver and hearts contain taurine.

And here's what in Hill's Science Diet, a favorite among heavily lobbied vets:

Ingredients
Chicken By-Product Meal, Ground Whole Grain Corn, Brewers Rice, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Now tell me, which is closer to a cat's natural diet? Which has more wholesome ingredients?

Of course, I never got a reply. :shrug:

[booksenkatz]

97. Lorien, a question about Innova Evo

(Actually, just another reason to see pics of your gorgeous kitties if you reply!;))

I've been researching like crazy and appreciate all of the time you've taken with your posts and information. After having several kitties who happily ate Hill's Lite and Iams Reduced, but who were overweight even though they got moderate exercise and were otherwise healthy, and then losing them to kidney disease, I've made up my mind that things are going to be different for my new kitty. I had her on Iams, but switched her over to Innova Evo last week. She is CRAZY about it, she acts like it's catnip! She turns down canned food to go for the I.E. dry ONLY.

I know that eating any one food exclusively is not a good idea, and that info about I.E. being a little high in potassium worried me a bit, so now I've begun to incorporate Wellness dry and she's accepting it as well. She doesn't like the Innova or Wellness cans, she does flips and goes insane for the I.E. dry, I've never seen anything like it.

If you were in my shoes, would you try her on Wellness CORE grain-free, or would I be overloading her with protein? What would you suggest for the sake of variety in her diet? She doesn't care too much for people food, but I think I can get her to enjoy yogurt. Any suggestions you have are welcome, I appreciate it!

[Lorien]

100. Hi Patsified!

My guys love Innova Evo too, but I rotate it with a number of brands: Organix, Wellness Core, Serengeti, Artemis Fresh Mix, and Nature's Variety grain free raw instinct. I feed them Prairie Nature's variety freeze dried raw diet daily, along with their beloved crunchy foods . My guys won't go for wet foods, so the freeze dried raw and grain free/ low grain are the next best thing, IMHO-along with lots and lots of fresh water!(A pet fountain encourages good hydration).

You can't overdo it on protein with a cat. Cats are obligate carnivores; their wild diet consists of birds and rodents, the contents of their prey's stomach, and small amounts of greens to aid digestion (we've all seen our cats eat grass-or houseplants, many of which aren't safe. So some greens will satisfy that craving). I also give them a Wellness multivitamin with added taurine in a pill pocket as a treat. Taurine helps protect our cats against blindness and heart ailments like cardiomyopathy and comes from organ meat. Most pet foods formulated for cats do contain the recommended minimum amount, but a little extra boost is a bit of added insurance against some very common problems (my vet's recommendation, anyway).

I hope that helps! Here's a few pics:

[booksenkatz]

101. ...picking myself up off the floor...

Holy smoke, those are gorgeous cats! I didn't realize just how big Oberon was in comparison to the others. I love your cats, but Oberon photos always cause me to faint.

I've spent the last couple of hours reading more about raw diets and while I'm not prepared to do that, I do understand the concepts behind it and am trying to do the next best thing(s). I also think that I really do need to get my kitty to eat some canned food, so I'm going to continue experimenting with Wellness, Felidae, etc. But I can tell after just a week that she is feeling and looking so good on the I.E., it's incredible. I'm hoping that she's losing a little weight, too! She was just starting to develop an udder after just a few months of living with us, so I've decided that meat-based cereal, even in "light" forms, even if Iams or Hills, is just dead wrong for a cat!

As for the water, I have a Cat-It, and I like it better than the Drinkwell, which was way too hard to keep clean.

Thanks again for steering me into some helpful directions!
:hi:

[Lorien]

105. Thanks for the tip on the Cat-it!

I have the Drinkwell, and it is quite a pain to keep clean!

Yeah, Oberon is a lean 20 pound monster with a teeny meow! Puck, my Turkish Angora, is a long and lean 10 pound cat and is larger than most of my neighbor's kitties, but she sure looks small next to Obie:









Keep us up to date with your kitty's weight loss progress!

:hi:

[Bluestar]

114. Wellness/Mother Hubbard Outsources to Menu Foods

Someone on GD just pointed me to this website: http://www.petsitusa.com/blog/?p=210 which states that some of Wellness/Mother Hubbard wet brands are outsourced to Menu Foods. Has anyone else heard of this? I plan to contact the company for clarification and if I get an answer, I will post it here.

This is upsetting to me but since I have been using grain-free foods only, I would assume that includes gluten-free?? I don't know, at this point I don't trust anyone.

[Lorien]

118. Grain free generally means gluten free as well

check the label. Wellness CORE is not made by Menu Foods, and several varieties of Wellness canned foods are grain free.

Here is a statement from Wellness:

To Our Pet Parents, Retailers and Partners,


As you may already know, Wellness brand pet food was NOT involved in the recent Menu Foods "cuts and gravy" product recall.

Consistent with our mission of providing uncompromising nutrition for dogs and cats, Wellness is committed to healthy, high-quality and natural pet food ingredients and recipes. Our products, for example, do not contain wheat, corn or soy or any artificial preservatives, flavors or colors.

Our pets are part of our families. While Wellness brand pet food was not affected, we express our sympathies to the animals, and their pet parents, who have suffered as a result of this unfortunate event.


As always, if you have any questions, we are happy to help and would love to hear from you. You can reach us at 1-800-225-0904.

Jim Scott

CEO, Wellness

[Dover]

90. A really good pet food is Innova

It's more expensive but think of it as preventative medicine that will save heartache and vet bills down the road. Or just cook extra human food for your pet when you cook your own. Chicken is cheap.

http://www.naturapet.com/display.php?d=home-tab

On Edit: I see Lorien has already recommended it! Actually all the foods sold by naturapet are top notch.

I'd like to know where those who feed their animals fresh raw foods like rabbit and deer buy it?

[Seedersandleechers]

91. Where I live (kansas city) there are processors who have lots

of deer meat available, especially like this past hunting season where there was an abundance. You can't sell deer meat but they can sell the processing of the meat. Hence, you get whole processed
deer for very very cheap...I did my homework several years ago and have a long list of processors in a 50 mile radius. One processor even gives it away. Apparently, more deer is being killed then hunters can use. And my cats love it. I have a vendor (several) for whole ground rabbit. My cats love the rabbit that includes the fir (go figure). If you want the web site for the vendors pm me, as I don't want to advertise on DU. The vendors sell to hundreds of breeders...

[AirmensMom]

92. Yummy!

Fork some of that over here! My babies LOVE venison, but it's too expensive to buy around here. :9

[bullwinkle428]

95. I've had a great deal of success with Castor & Pollux brand food

for my cat. She had been having soft-stool issues since I adopted her, and after a period of diarrhea where she was treated by the vet, she seemed to be okay but the soft-stool problem resurfaced on her old food (Royal Canin dry, formulated for sensitive stomachs). I switched over to the C&P Indoor cat formula, and her soft-stool problems disappeared almost overnight! She loves the taste of it, and even eats the little dried pieces of fruit and vegetables...

http://www.castorpolluxpet.com/store/natural_ultramix/natural_ultramix_indoor_feline_formula

Ingredients: Chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, ground whole grain barley, rice protein concentrate, brewers rice, cellulose, ground flaxseed, dried carrots, dried bananas, dried papaya, dried apples, natural chicken flavor, dried egg product, chicken fat preserved with mixed tocopherols (form of vitamin E), brewers dried yeast, dried beet pulp, menhaden fish meal, sodium bisulfate, salmon meal, potassium chloride, dried blueberries, L-lysine, salt, choline chloride, taurine, DL-methionine, L-carnitine, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, niacin, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, manganous oxide, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin K1 supplement, sodium selenite, folic acid, calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement, cobalt carbonate, yeast culture (saccharomyces cerevisiae), dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried aspergillus niger fermentation extract, dried trichoderma longbrachiatum fermenation extract, dried bacillus subtilis fermentation extract and fermentation solubles.

[Lorien]

96. My cats love that formula

I still prefer to give them the freeze dried raw,but when my independent pet food supplier is out of stock I run to PetCo for Castor & Pollux. I usually get them Organix, but PetCo is often out of it so in that case I get the indoor formula you've listed. Puck LOVES the freeze dried bananas!

[bullwinkle428]

102. I'm not sure if it's the celluose, dried beet pulp, or dried fruits

and veggies, but the quality of her stool has improved tremendously since I started feeding it to her! She gets a mix of this and the Natural Balance Venison & Green Pea every day in her bowl, but she had been eating the NB prior to the diarrhea bout. Willow loves the dried produce chips too. Cats have interesting palates...she picked up a little crumb of a cheese Rice Chex piece from a bag of mix the other day and gobbled it down...

[Lorien]

103. She sure is a beauty!

Glad to hear that her health is improving. Natural Balance is an excellent human grade brand too. I'm sure she'll be feeling better and better with each new day!

[bullwinkle428]

109. Oh, she's doing great now! She was very shy and timid when I

brought her home initially, and you can almost see that in her eyes in that picture. After she recovered, I had her groomed to work her mats out and get clipped to about half-length on her coat, and she's been incredibly sweet and loving ever since, always wanting to cuddle. She's barely 6 lbs., so it's slmost like picking up a little stuffed animal...

[booksenkatz]

104. This thread will kill me eventually

But at least I'll die happy. What a beautiful cat!! I love the eyeliner and the "noseliner.":P

[bullwinkle428]

110. Isn't that nose unique? I had never seen one like hers,

where the outline was black and the center was pink! Her paw pads are a solid black, so nothing really unusual there...

[Critters2]

98. Two companies that clearly state their grains are sourced from

the Midwest and Plains states:

petpromiseinc.com
nlpp.com

[Donnachaidh]

106. Does anyone use Mother Hubbard?

I was told by a breeder to try this with both cats and dog and they LOVE this stuff. Has anyone had any problems with it?

[DainBramaged]

107. I can't afford the holistic/natural foods

And how can anyone be sure what is in their pet food?

This happens so rarely, and overall so few pets are affected, but responsibility MUST be placed and damaged paid.

This was neglect, not calling the recall when they KNEW they had a problem with taster pets dying. But what pisses me off more than anything is they imported the fucking wheat from CHINA and won't buy domestic summer/winter wheat?

[Lorien]

108. I can't afford vet bills

and many human grade foods are within pennies per serving of junk commercial foods. Therefore I protect my pet's health and keep them out of the vet's office with organic, human grade foods. I do the same for myself: avoid the processed junk, and go for the healthiest option. Medical bills can bankrupt a person in short order.

You can be a lot more sure of what IS in food that's approved for human consumption (as human grade food ingredients are) than what's in "pet grade food" (leftovers from processing plants, roadkill, mold, and all sorts of things that are ILLEGAL to serve you).

[DainBramaged]

111. So, even though I have two old 13 year old dogs

One 65 and one 125 lbs, and without ANY problems other than ear infections and toenails that need clipping (and heartworm checks) and cats that have owned me for up to 19+ years old (last one passed at 13, last year, and the one before that in 2003 at 18.5) and I ONLY feed them Purina Chows or Benefil, I guess I'm a bad pet parent?:eyes:

I don't think so

[Lorien]

112. I didn't say that.

But there's a fair amount of proof that pets can live well into their 20's on human grade diets. Raw diets being the best of all, if prepared properly. Who wouldn't want to save thousands on vet bills and the life of their pet if diet alone could help extend their lives by 10+ years?

[DainBramaged]

113. I just don't spend anything on vets, never have, 30 + years

I've had dozens of cats and 8 dogs.

My pets are fine.

[Lorien]

116. Good for you. You're lucky.

[AirmensMom]

119. I've saved hundreds, maybe thousands,

of dollars on vets since switching my cats to raw food. And I love that their cure came from diet, not pharmaceuticals. We are hoping our Abys live at least another 10 years (they are 9 and 10 now), but I fear that the damage may have been done by 7-8 years of a diet they couldn't tolerate. Still, we've had two years with them that we wouldn't have had otherwise and are grateful for every day. Our younger kitties have an excellent chance of living very long lives. Our youngest, Sarabi, is only 6 months old and has been completely on raw food since we got her last week.

Have I mentioned lately how beautiful your kitties are? Oberon is just amazing! :loveya:

[nicknameless]

124. Packaged raw food for dogs from Natural Balance?

I know a lot of people are wanting to make their own pet food because of the Menu Foods nightmare.
But, I just came across this info about Natural Balance raw food for Dogs.
Maybe it's okay?

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/RAW.html

Why RAW?

For millions of years animals have not cooked their food and have stayed very healthy. Natural Balance® Canine RAW Food Diet is a special blend of raw beef, ground raw bones, fresh vegetables, sprouts, flaxseed and fruits with the correct amount of vitamins and minerals added for a dog’s health. This formula is based on the Raw Carnivore Diets formulated by the Natural Balance® Zoological Division.

Natural Balance RAW Canine Formulas are made with premium ingredients and are processed in a HACCP compliant California State inspected plant under stringent sanitary conditions. Natural Balance obtains a third party analysis of every batch of RAW Food. Once processed the product is individually quick-frozen at -35 Degrees F.

Natural Balance® Canine Raw Food Diet is a nutritionally balanced diet that offers optimum nutrition to help your dog live a healthier, happier life.

Hopefully, they'll start making raw foods for kitties too.

[Lorien]

125. Steve's Real Food and Prairie Nature's Variety both make raw foods

for cats. Here's a few other brands: http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?searchterms=raw-cat-food&click=5&gclid=CM-6jYLtkosCFRssVAodKDRIWQ

Menu foods doesn't package raw food diets. Most pre-packaged raw foods are made in small batches by the company that promotes them. Safe handling is the biggest concern when using pre-packaged raw foods, of course.

[nicknameless]

126. Thank you -- Bookmarked!

[femmedem]

127. Time to kick this again.

Lots of questions on petfood in General Discussion today.

[BrklynLiberal]

128. This hasn't been kicked in a long time. So here goes.

[Lorien]

129. Thanks BrklynLiberal!

It's been terrible that it's taken the pet food poisonings to wake many people up to the truth about those commercial foods. Sad, too, that even brands like Natural Balance ended up on the recall list! Since the FDA no longer protects either us or our pets and profit is king, we owe it to ourselves and them to do all the research we can before bringing anything pre-packaged home to eat. :-(

[Lorien]

130. Kick

for all the ailing pets out there.

[Lorien]

132. Kicking again

Add Orijen, Tikikat, and Weruva to the list of new Human Grade brands. Wellness and Artemis now have grain free varieties too.

[BrklynLiberal]

133. Defintely time for another kick...

Hi Lorien.
How are you doing...and all your furbabies?

[Duppers]

134. kick

thanks, Lorien.

[BluRay01]

135. Just wanted to say thanks!

I'm a longtime lurker and rare poster on DU, and I've been thinking for a while about switching my two cats from a dry food diet to something more suited to them. We've got two six-year-old female tricolored domestic shorthairs, and I'd never had cats growing up. So starting out, they got dry food from the grocery store. We have always done our best to get products where meat was at the top of the ingredient list, and they've been pretty healthy (they're indoors exclusively, so they don't get regular vaccinations). Lately I decided that they (and we) should be eating less processed and more natural diets, so I've been shopping around a bit. I got a sampler of the raw food from Primal, thawed a package, and put it out for them...no interest. I mixed some of it with some canned food that they have eaten in the past--one of them ate a little , the other tried to bury the bowl of food. So, in the interest of not having them fast too long, I gave them some of the canned food by itself. My plan for now is to experiment with some of the grain-free and organic canned foods, supplement with good quality organic dry (and freeze-dried), and occasionally try to mix in a little raw, to see if I can transition them more gradually. I've run across many of the brands in this thread, such as Wellness and Innova EVO, but it looks like there's a lot of variety out there! I've ordered a couple of variety packs of different brands, and hopefully I'll find a few that they like. Also, great tip in the thread about the Catit fountain. We had a Drinkwell, and it got dirty so quickly that it seemed I was disassembling it completely all the time, just to keep it working. I gave up on it and we're not using a fountain now, but I've really noticed the difference in how much they drink.

Thanks again--any information that can help my girls live longer, healthier lives is much appreciated (and they pictures in the thread are wonderful)!

[Lorien]

136. Glad to help out! I hope that you have them for many years to come

:hi:

Since the recall human grade pet foods are becoming more plentiful and easier to find all the time. Just this past month I discovered TikiCat, Prowl, and Taste of the Wild brands.Fromm, Evangers and Orijen are also a few of the newer brands available. PetCo is now carrying Solid Gold and Organix in addition to Natural Balance. Hopefully with all these new options millions of pets will be spared the cancer, diabetes, kidney failure and urinary blockages that happen to so many animals on commercial diets.

[Lorien]

137. Kickin' it for the newbies

:kick:

[BrklynLiberal]

142. This is a classic, and needs to be brought to the top every three months or so.

Hi Lorien....
How is everyone?

:hi:

[samplegirl]

138. Great Post....Makes you think

I know I read the labels when buying his food as I know the gluten is very bad for any cat and they thicken the gravy kind with it.
You know for what it costs these days for cat food...I am really considering babyfood for my cat........at least it will be real
food without toxins or chemicals.
It is so very hard to find organic cat food in the stores here.
I have to drive quite a ways to Pet Smart.

[Lorien]

139. Please don't use baby food. It doesn't have enough taurine to sustain

your cat's life (taurine comes from organ meat). The cat food does not have to be organic to be "Human grade". Human grade is anything that is made with ingredients that are deemed by the USDA to be safe for human consumption. Commercial pet foods are usually made with "feed grade" ingredients; that which is illegal to sell for human consumption. There are LOTS of human grade (both organic and not) brands now to choose from. This site has a good list: http://pookiesbowwowbakery.com/shop/pookies-for-cats-c-22.html and you can find many of the brands for less at Pet food direct.

[spooky3]

157. if you can pay a premium, you can order from this store online

and have it delivered:

http://www.petsage.com/

I live near their store (which is wonderful), but I prefer buying in bulk (they give a 5% discount on some foods like Wellness, if you order 24 of the same kind of can) and have it delivered. It is less than baby food, which is 99 cents for a little jar, and I figure one can at around $1.30 (plus shipping and handling) is equal to about 3 baby food jars.

[RebelOne]

140. I just started feeding my dogs Pet Promise.

Has anyone else used it? I saw it in Kroger at the organics food section.

http://www.petpromiseinc.com/

[Coyote_Bandit]

141. Too bad

none of these natural food products are available in formulas for those furkids who require prescription diets. Unfortunately, feeding good food does not resolve all health challenges. Some health challenges must be managed or controlled through diet.

I have a dog that has eaten prescription food for five years. He is doing very well on a diet that is calorie dense, ph and calcium controlled, and protein, phosphorous, sodium, and fat limited. I'd love to feed him a homecooked or natural food diet. I have yet to find or formulate a recipe that is consistent with the current nutritional intake that enables him to maintain a normal blood profile - and there are no comparable natural diets manufactured for him. There probably could be but there aren't. I'm certain there is a market for them.

Sometimes "polluted" food is the best available alternative.

[Lorien]

147. More often than not feeding a raw natural diet resolves most common health

ailments. Just Google "B.A.R.F" and read the many testimonials. Pollution pollutes the body, period.

[Lorien]

150. Here's a link:

http://www.preciouspets.org/newsletters/articles/kidney-failure-diet.htm

[Coyote_Bandit]

151. I have a renal dog

who has eaten a prescription renal diet for nearly five years now. At the time he was diagnosed the vet recommended he be euthanized. Fortunately I took him for a second opinion. Still, the best prognosis was "wait and see." It took about a year for his condition to stabilize. For the past several years all his blood values have been within normal range - with some of the ratios remaining skewed as an indicator that he does have impaired renal function.

This dog was very young when diagnosed. Only five months of age. He was raised by a disabled woman on people food. Protein, veggies, fruits, and carbs - including raw and unprocessed foods. Simple fact is this dog lost the genetic lottery. In addition to his renal problems he also has a spinal deformity. His health problems are congenital. He didn't get them from eating processed dog food. With few exceptions he does lead a normal life. Those exceptions relate to diet and exposure to stress.

He has responded very well to his prescription diet. In an effort to offer him some variety in his diet we have experimented with using different brands of prescription food. As a general rule these kinds of diets are formulated to restrict protein, phosphorous, fat and sodium content. Seems the dog does better on some of these diets than on others. And he does better on all of these diets than he does otherwise.

We are fortunate to have a very good vet. A vet that incorporates holistic and alternative therapies and the occasional off label use of medications. We have managed the spinal problem with the use of acupuncture, various supplements and whole body massage. His vet has provided recipes for cooked foods that can be fed and used to supplement his prescription diet. His vet has specifically advised against the BARF diet.

You think I am going to change his diet to a raw natural diet - especially one that is not formulated to address his health needs? No fucking way. I'd love to be able to feed him a natural diet that is formulated for him. Nobody sells one. And a raw diet consisting primarily of meat and fat would kill this dog. Plain and simple. The protein would raise his BUN. The phosphorous would cause additional kidney damage. The fat would likely lead to pancreatitis and possible secondary kidney failure.

I will trust the opinion of my vet. Nice of you to offer your unsolicited veterinary opinion regarding care for an animal you previously knew nothing about though. Gotta love those one size fits all solutions to health care issues. Maybe I should just use leeches. Or perhaps a magic potion from the circus carney passing through town. In my situation I imagine your advice is worth about as much as your veterinary license.

[Lorien]

152. Well, that was an excessively nasty post

I don't claim to have any license. I'm just someone who cares very much about the health and well being of pets and their people. I don't eat processed garbage myself; if I do, my fibromyalgia knocks me flat. I've have a vet that HIGHLY recommends a raw food diet whenever a pet is seriously ill, and I trust him completely. He cured a friend's pug of cancer when every other vet recommended euthanasia. He's a good man, and I pass along what I've learned from him and many other in the pet rescue I've worked for whenever I can. But if your vet has kept your dog alive, then fine. No need for the personal attacks though.

[Coyote_Bandit]

153. You are qualified to speak of

your own experience with the animals for which you have cared. Nothing more.

You took it upon yourself to give veterinary advice without knowing the details of the situation. Guess what? I'd challenge anybody offering professional advice on an internet message board.

Doing so is not an attack on the person offering the advice and you are wrong if you understand it as such. However, anybody who offers such advice should be prepared to have their credentials and qualifications to do so questioned.

You assumed that my dog is older and has health problems that have developed during his lifetime. And you further assumed those problems are the result of food impurities. Ain't necessarily so. Even if you were qualified to render an opinion you did so without knowing the underlying circumstances.

Your recommendation of the BARF diet omitted the fact that many veterinarians do not recommend that particular diet even for healthy dogs. That would include some DU vets who used to post in this forum.

[BrklynLiberal]

143. A kick for those who have never seen this incredibly useful and informative thread

[StarryNite]

144. Doggie odor

Prior to switching our little Border Collie mix to Innova,Canadae,and home cooked meats and veggies Patty, always had doggie odor. It didn't matter how frequently I bathed her. After the news started coming out about the tainted commercial foods I then switched her to her new diet. Low and behold, the added, unexpected bonus was that her doggie odor disappeared.

[Omaha Steve]

145. Pure Natural Pet Food - Just like all Pet Promise Formulas.

We've been using this since the last big recall a couple years ago. We are very happy with Pet Promise. Read the book "How Dog Food Saved the Earth".

http://www.petco.com/product/102303/Pet-Promise-Daily-Health-Adult-Dog-Food.aspx



* No Animal Byproducts
* No Added Growth Hormones
* No Antibiotic-fed Protein Sources
* No Rendered Meats or Fats
* No Factory Farm Meats or Poultry
* No Artificial Colors, Flavors, Preservatives


Home page: http://www.petpromiseinc.com/

[StarryNite]

146. Lassie Natural Way

Does anybody have any info on Lassie Natural Way natural dog food? On the surface it looks pretty good. But it's sold in grocery store chains so that makes me suspicious. From what I've been reading on this thread I need to change up the food to prevent allergies and to give more balance. I was thinking of giving this a try but I'm not sure about it.

[Lorien]

148. Just look to see if says "USDA" or "human grade" on the

label. Also, check to see if corn is an ingredient. If it is, it's probably a "feed grade" food.

On edit: I couldn't find the ingredient grade on their website, but here's the ingredient list:

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Rice Flour, Ground Rice, Rice Bran, Poultry Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Oatmeal, Canola Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Natural Flavors, Dried Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Dried Egg Product, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Vitamins: Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamin Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Minerals: Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite.

"Chicken" would be better than "chicken meal" because "meal" is generally meat industry waste (processing leftovers ground up to create a meal), which isn't as bad as chicken by-products, but it sure isn't great. Brown rice is fine, but rice flour and ground rice could cause obesity and diabetes.

I'd say that if you are on a very tight budget, consider rotating several brands (I recommend this anyway-from everything I read, feeding your pet ONE food throughout it's life may benefit to pet food company, but not your pet. Few carnivores or omnivores are designed to eat the same thing every day). "Chicken soup for the dog lover's soul" is a decent bargain USDA brand. Organix is good too, as is Merrick. Find a few that your dog enjoys and mix it up to make sure he gets everything he needs, and not too much of the bad stuff if there is bad stuff there!

[StarryNite]

149. Thank you so much for the info!

I'm learning so much about pet foods and reading labels on here. To me it looked pretty good. Too good to be true for a grocery store brand. Right now I'm feeding my two dogs Canidae and Evo along with home cooked, human quality meats and some veggies and a little healthy people leftovers. No onions, raisins, chocolate, nuts or other things that are bad for them. However, after reading that rotating brands is a good thing, I think I will try Pet Promise next. Hmmmm, I just looked at the ingredients on the Canidae and it has chicken meal, turkey meal, and lamb meal. I guess I better rethink this too. I guess that's why reading labels and rotating is the way to go. Thanks again Lorien. You have been very helpful.

[RedLetterRev]

156. I switched our furkids to Wellness

some time back and the difference in their muscle tone, their coats and eyes was dramatic. They get compliments everywhere they go. We also supplement with rice (for which Dora would do ANYthing) and mixed veggies or chicken -- usually the same stuff we eat so we know what's in it. We got ourselves off corn syrup and anything with hydrolized-anything in it long ago and wouldn't expect our furkids to eat that stuff either. We talked our one supplier in the area into switching his working dogs to Wellness. Last week when we went to buy hay, he caught us and thanked us for the tip.

Great post and thanks for getting the word out there on how important our companions' diets really are.

[Lorien]

158. Thanks RedLetterRev!

I'm so glad that they are doing so well on their new diet. The whole food supplements sound like a great idea too. You can't go wrong with whole foods now and then; most carnivores and omnivores aren't meant to eat the same thing every day, after all!

:hi:

[LostinVA]

163. I got put off Wellness by the price fixing they were pulling with a small local pet store

One cat eats Innova dry, and the IBS cat eats EVO. The dog eats a mix of EVO and Merrick dry with some Evanger's canned as a treat. They all do great on it.

[Lorien]

161. Kick for the newbies

:kick:

[BrklynLiberal]

162. Great idea.

:hi:

This may be the oldest living thread on DU.

[dysfunctional press]

164. what a load of crap...my cats have always been happy and done extremely well with commercial brands.

holistic pet stores??? i don't know how so many people can be responsible for animals when their heads are so far up their asses.

[BrklynLiberal]

167. What a kind, considerate response. You must be loved by everyone who knows you.

[rhett o rick]

168. Except the pets. I feel sorry for the pets. Wow, what bitterness. nm

[BrklynLiberal]

165. Time for another kick

I have started giving my cats Weruva. It is amazing. When I open it, I am tempted to try it myself. All human grade and delicious looking. My cats go nuts for it. They have dog food as well

Here is a site where you can see what it looks like.
http://www.petnetdirect.com/page/1/CTGY/CWWeruva?gclid=CPTT2uXlnpcCFQFvGgodjwEX-w

Here is the home site
http://www.weruva.com/

[BrklynLiberal]

166. Another kick..

[rhett o rick]

169. I been feeding my cat Orijen but would like to feed her soft food also for the mosture.

I can't seem to get her to eat the soft food of any kind. I confess that I don't try to force her. Should I be more forceful?
Are you familiar with Prowl?
I recognize that I should be switching dry food but is it best to alternate dry food types on a daily basis or on a longer basis?
thanks for all your help.

[Lorien]

171. There are some cats who just refuse to eat anything but their favorite kibble

my Oberon is like that. I can get him to eat some canned food once in a while, but nothing on a regular basis. Thankfully he drinks A LOT, so I'm not terribly worried. You might try giving your cat a pet fountain just to ensure that she's getting all she needs.

Prowl is a very good brand, as is Prairie Nature's variety freeze dried raw canine/ feline diet. My cat Puck loves it dry, but you can add water to it gradually to wean them off of the "dry only" diet.

Good luck! :hi:

[rhett o rick]

174. Attila always has water available. Thanks for the response. nm

[glinda]

184. Orijen in Australia via Canada and one other Country has caused paralysis

in some new documented cases. The symptoms do not show up right away but they are thinking it might be from irradiating or storing the foods prior to shipping.

[frogmarch]

170. Thanks for this thread!

My husband and I adopted a pound doggy just before Christmas, and we don't - or till now, didn't - know what to feed him. We live in a very small town, and the only kind of organic dog food for sale here is Newman's Own. Is it any good? I suppose we could order dog food on the Internets if we have to, but it would be more convenient not to have to do that.

I'll check out your links now and read the other posts. Thanks again for this thread. :thumbsup:

[Lorien]

172. Newman's own is excellent!

and it's not as essential for it to be organic as it is for it to be USDA "human grade" (as Newman's Own is). The nasty stuff is the "feed grade" foods (all the grocery store brands, plus premium names like Iams, Eukanuba and Science Diet) because the ingredients are so bad that it's forbidden to sell them for human consumption! This online store ONLY sells USDA grade products, so you can make your own list from what they offer: http://pookiesbowwowbakery.com/pookies-for-dogs-c-21.html

Congrats on your new addition! :hi:

[frogmarch]

173. Thanks! We sure do love him.

Not sure what breeds he is, but it doesn't matter. He's a pure delight.

I'll pass on the pet food info to my kids and friends. They'll be as shocked as I was to hear how bad some of the pet food on the market is!

[Lorien]

176. I doubt if it was always this bad

it seems to me that corporations these days will do ANYTHING to increase profits; the risks and moral considerations don't matter to them in the least. I know that there's always been an element of this in the corporate world, but it seems to be pushed to extremes these days, with the FDA doing more to ensure profits than protect public health. Check out a documentary called "the future of food" (available on Netflix and YouTube) to see just how nutty it's all become! hopefully the Obama administration can help to turn things around.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

175. My relatively new kitty is currently on a human-grade dry food, which is a step up

from the IAMs crap that my cousin was feeding him. I supplement this with a tablepoonful of raw egg in the morning and meat scraps whenever I'm cooking something with meat in it.

He LOVES his morning egg--licks the bowl clean--and unlike some cats I've known, he recognizes raw meat as food and eats it eagerly. So far, he's enjoyed ground turkey, ground chicken, and lamb.

His coat is already softer and shinier, and he seems to be shedding less than when I first got him a little over three weeks ago.

I want to gradually transition him to all-meat canned foods. It makes sense that animals should eat as close to their species' natural diet as possible.

By the way, my grandparents and my parents raised dogs entirely on table scraps, and they all lived long and healthy lives, except for the purebred Labrador Retriever, who succumbed to the genetic weaknesses of her breed.

[Dover]

177. My cats' favorite food (and I mean ALL of them) is raw chicken livers

Organic, human grade of course.

I feed it to them once or twice a week. Everything else pales in comparison.

They used to get that excited about tuna, but that is now off the menu due to
the Mercury/toxin problems. I don't eat it either.

[BrklynLiberal]

178. Another kick

[glinda]

179. My Vet just had two cats on Halo come in with Urinary issues

[BrklynLiberal]

185. kick

[hippywife]

186. Kicking this up again.

Good info here. I'm was looking for a good dry food for both my older cat and my two younger ones (a little under a year old.) I've already switched them to mostly wet food with very little of their dry but they're yowling for it.

Need to stop and get some tonight. Going to try Wellness Core, I think. :hi:

[KoKo]

187. Thanks for that list of foods and suppliers. I worry about even those companies...but I will do

some research on them. I had tried Wellness a few times..but they refused to eat it. Maybe I'll check out a can or two of the others on your list.

[InvisibleTouch]

188. Nice to see this thread is still active!

What with premium dogfood having gotten insanely expensive in the last couple of years, not to mention I don't trust most of the manufacturers anymore, we have been going back to raw/homecooked in my household. I lucked into some deer meat the other day, given to me by a friend who was clearing out his freezer, and my pack is loving it. Add some cooked grains, steamed veggies, powdered eggshell (or the occasional turkey neck) for calcium, and they are good to go. :)

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

189. My dog got sick after I switched her to Nutro

it may be a coincidence, but maybe not. I did some research and found that Nutro was part of the dog food recalls, and also that it has about double the amount of zinc that dog food should have.

As soon as I switched her to Nutro, she began having excessive thirst and urinary accidents in the house.

Nutro used to be a good dog food, but with success, the owners sold the bus to a company that isn't
as good.

I offered my dog Merrick, but she wouldn't eat it.

So we're back to Purina One (chicken first ingredient) and canned food - trying Solid Gold Green Tripe. Green Tripe is a cow's stomach with partially digested grass in it. Supposed to be a real treat for dogs and easier to digest.

If you think about it, does it make sense for a dog (or cat) to eat 100% dried food?
They don't eat dessicated food in nature.

Who knows, maybe its coincidence, but at least my dog is feeling a bit better now.

[CC]

190. Kick since it has been a while. n/t

[Sanity Claws]

191. Endorsement of Halo

I switched my cats to Halo's Spot Stew and it seems to be their favorite. I tried to switch them to Wellness just so they weren't eating the same thing all the time but they weren't happy about it. One of them woke me demanding that I get him his old food of Spot's Stew.
One doesn't need language to communicate and understand.

[Lorien]

192. Kick. nt

[CountAllVotes]

194. thanks for kicking this

Having a difficult time here right now with these pricey foods for kidney health that none of my cats seem to eat. Boy are they EVER expensive ($5 a lb!). I don't know what to do. :(

:kick: again ...

[Lorien]

195. Here's an option to try:

http://www.petplace.com/cats/homemade-diet-recipe-for-cats-with-kidney-disease/page1.aspx

I'd substitute organic brown rice for the white rice and salmon oil for the vegetable oil. Also, add a Turine supplement for extra health benefits.

[Lorien]

196. My cat's new favorite dry brand:

Great life grain-free dry cat food: http://www.wholelifepets.com/Great-Life-Grain-Free-Dry-Cat-Food-p/gl023.htm

Ingredients

Freeze Dried Raw Coating- Green Lipped Mussel Pumpkin,Yams, Mixed baby sprouts, 7 billion micro-encapsulated mixed probiotics, digestive enzymes, sprouted chia, salmon oil Kibble-Wild Salmon, tapioca, jicama, pumpkin, alfalfa meal, kelp, cranberries, blueberries, peas parsley, artichoke, kale, fennel, rosemary, garlic, vitamins, chelated minerals

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Protein- 33%, Fat- min 17%, Ash <9%, D.E. Cal/lb 1768, Fiber max 3%, Calcium 2.3, Phosphorus 1.36, Linoleic acid 3.36, Arachidonic acid .1, Selenium 1.17, Magnesium .14, Taurine .14

[BrklynLiberal]

198. I have been giving mine the Merrick BG.."Before Grain" food...but this looks fantastic.

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/bg_dry_cat_food_11.php

I use the chicken.

The canned BG was pure meat/fish..but I heard they are changing the formula to add some fruits/veggies.
http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/bg_canned_cat_food_32.php

[BrklynLiberal]

197. Wow! This classic deserves a kick every few months. Glad to see this up on top again.

[get the red out]

199. I am glad I got good advice from friends

We got a new puppy this summer and I am glad I had a couple of animal savvy friends to give us good feeding advice. We have had Layla on Wellness since she was about 10 weeks old and she is, so far, a very healthy puppy at almost 7 months. I hope this can continue in her life. It seems almost every pet people I know have to put down is lost due to cancer these days. Not having to go through that, and the resulting vet bills along the way, far outweighs the additional cost of good pet food.

[Swampguana]

203. California Natural

My Partner and I have used a couple different types of dog food, we started with California Natural and went to Innova and one other one local to Vermont. We strongly agree that the popular pet foods aren't the way to go. My moms dog now has a tumor and she gets the cheapest stuff. I told her to switch but she still won't.

[Robeson]

204. kick.

[old mark]

205. Harmony Chicken and Brown Rice- just got some today...nt