Is this a safe place to talk about guns?

[Cleita]

Honestly, the enthusiasts are a cult and won't listen to any reason whatsoever. I think something has to be done though and maybe an organization like MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) to start engaging the NRA and other organizations who do not have the welfare of the common person at stake when they allow laissez faire gun ownership to happen. I mean, my family owns guns. I don't anymore since my husband died but they do and they are responsible gun owners, but there are so many out there who are not. How many more nine year olds have to die before we get something done?

[Missy Vixen]

1. They don't care

>How many more nine year olds have to die before we get something done?<

The enthusiasts love their guns more than they love spouses, other family members, friends or anything else in life. After all, those who die are nothing more than "collateral damage" to them, sacrificed to the higher power of their Second Amendment rights. I can't count the number of "enthusiasts" I have met or worked with over the years that put me and everyone else around them in jeopardy because of their insistence on carrying in inappropriate settings, or those who left guns unsecured and then were so, so SHOCKED when said guns were used by someone else to commit a crime or hurt or murder someone else.

There was an organization similar to MADD in the 90's in the Seattle area - Mothers Against Violence in America. Many of the women who belonged had lost a child due to random gun violence. To hear their stories and see the photos of lost loved ones was devastating.

Any type of organization will have to be VERY well-funded (to fight off the NRA's attempts to undermine or disband them,) and well-organized. I don't think it's impossible.

I keep hoping that people will realize that we owe not just Christina Taylor Green, but every child, the chance to grow up free and safe from being shot in a grocery store parking lot, or any place else.

[Cleita]

2. I just came from watching the news and had a little

epiphany. They were talking about how Gabrielle Giffords was improving, like she's out of the woods. It then struck me that when she is whole again, she is going to lead on this. The deaths of the little girl and the others are going to weigh heavily on her. I believe she will go the limit to make things right.

[rosesaylavee]

3. Strangely this has been an ongoing debate locally

as a very good friend purchased a gun, started target practice and joined the NRA. When you purchase a gun, it's pretty much easier to join the NRA for insurance and permit issues as well as discounts on learning gun safety and training. She felt, as a liberal, it was a good that she be a member to offset the crazies that are there. And she's not alone. Many members of the NRA are liberal and are responsible gun owners. I separate the NRA members from the leadership as they don't always agree within the organization on what path to follow per a few of my liberal friends.

So, not sure the NRA is the entire problem. I do like Chris Rocks idea about raising the cost of bullets. THAT would be an excellent start.

[Cleita]

8. The NRA is a useful organization and they do a

lot of good things. However, for decades now, the leadership has taken a hard position of no gun laws other than those on the books and it would be even better if there were no laws in their opinion. They were the main thrust behind the Supreme Court decision http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2000454,00.html to overrule Chicago's strict gun law. They should be leading in working with the law on this issue and instead are obstructing any efforts to put some sensible gun control laws on the books that would still allow responsible gun ownership, but make it harder for nut cases to buy legally.

[rosesaylavee]

11. Agreed. The leadership is not paying attention to the membership

Last year, the membership was diametrically ooposed to what the leadership was proposing according to a poll. Can't remember the specifics - just the outcome.

[eilen]

4. The Washington Post did a series called

"The Hidden Life of Guns". I heard a radio interview last night with the journalists who wrote it. It was very interesting and eye opening. Most of the guns used to kill police officers and in crimes have come here legally-- were legally purchased by an individual. From there they are stolen or sold. Depending on the states gun laws (which don't really mean anything since people transport guns through many states illegally)-- they may be sold by a legal licensed dealer or privately. But even places where handguns are banned, there are stores or dealers that open up just outside the fringes (like in Chicago).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/guns/


The below really blew my mind. It wasn't even on my radar-- does anyone here remember hearing about it?

"Under the law, investigators cannot reveal federal firearms tracing information that shows how often a dealer sells guns that end up seized in crimes. The law effectively shields retailers from lawsuits, academic study and public scrutiny. It also keeps the spotlight off the relationship between rogue gun dealers and the black market in firearms.

THIS STORY
Realco guns tied to 2,500 crimes in D.C. and Maryland
Industry pressure hides gun traces, protects dealers from public scrutiny
Live chat: The hidden life of guns, Monday 1 p.m.
Such information used to be available under a simple Freedom of Information Act request. But seven years ago, under pressure from the gun lobby, Congress blacked out the information by passing the so-called Tiahrt amendment, named for Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.). The law removed from the public record a government database that traces guns recovered in crimes back to the dealers."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/23/AR2010102302996.html

[Cleita]

9. I believe a majority of guns do start out legally and end up illegally traded

on the black market. I was at a swap meet up in Idaho where guns were being sold openly with no registration or other paper work. Many guns are stolen and end up on the black market. I always thought that part of a good gun law would be a requirement that the gun owners show papers that they have a gun safe to store their weapons when they weren't using them and that they know they must store their weapons there or face a stiff fine if the guns end up in the wrong hands. This would prevent a lot of guns from getting on the black market, not to mention children getting hold of parent's guns with tragic consequences.

[LiberalEsto]

5. Yes. Most places aren't.

Gun addiction is to some extent fear-based, I believe.

Didn't scientists recently find real differences in some area of the brain in conservatives, as opposed to liberals? I think they found that the part of the brain having to do with fear is larger or more hypersensitive in conservatives.

So they want firepower to protect themselves from real or highly exaggerated fears, but fears nonetheless. When people are reacting in fear, they aren't going to listen to logic and common sense.

Maybe the way to approach this national gun epidemic is to find some way to soothe the fears of the gun-lovers. Maybe we need to do widespread active listening so that they feel their fears are being heard and understood. And then work on ways to lower the level of fear.

[OneGrassRoot]

6. Fear is at the heart of it, I absolutely agree. n/t

[japple]

7. Fear and feeling powerless. A gun gives them the feeling of

safety and power. Sad.

[Cleita]

10. That sounds like a really excellent idea. n/t

[marions ghost]

12. I think you're onto something

Gun-lovers are people living in fear. The gun is a concrete symbol of "control" -- a false symbol of safety. A gun carries more symbolic value than real protection value. No more than 25% of the population can use them safely and effectively anyway. Average non-athletic citizens might be able to do well in practice, but that's very different from really shooting to kill.

A gun is not really protection for the average person. It's more a danger than anything else. So yes, substituting some real sense of security over gun ownership makes sense. But you are dealing with very concrete thinkers, people who equate security with weapons. The more you argue against guns, the more they dig in. And so how do you decrease fear in this fearful world? Americans are afraid of their own shadows.

[get the red out]

13. we are fed fear

We are also constantly fed fear over the airwaves. If it isn't the right wing fear-mongers it is just the regular news outlets with one horrific crime after another to where one's mind spins with it.

Then people are told over and over that "guns" are a part of "their way of life" and "they" are out to destroy your identity. No reasonable discussion exists.