Any thoughts on the omen aspect of Cheney shooting someone today?

[Nancy Waterman]

I was thinking it could be an omen of Cheney shooting off his mouth and doing some signficant damage.
Unless it is a retroactive omen about him shooting off his mouth and telling Libby to leak some classified material and doing signficant damage.
Or maybe it is just a generic omen of how he always shoots off his mouth and does unexpected damage.

[Nancy Waterman]

1. from firedoglake

[crikkett]

52. brilliant!

:rofl:

I gotta stop, or I'll start feeling guilty about taking pleasure in the misfortune of others. Even if the misfortune is justice and it's richly deserved.

on edit: By the way, thanks for my valentine heart, somebody! It feels great!

[NMDemDist2]

2. I hope it's an omen that he's on his way out. He couldn't literally shoot

himself in the foot, so he used a stand in.

unFREAKINGbelievable!

and so glad to see you Nancy, I am really enjoying your blog. I read it at least once a week (to catch up on what's going on in the stars) I never have signed up or posted, but I'm glad to have a chance to let you know you have a loyal reader

:bounce:

[Nancy Waterman]

3. Thanks, AZDem!!

We have a great group of posters. You should come by and say hello some time.
The first time you post it has to be moderated by me. So if it doesn't show up immediately,
it probably means I am not online and haven't moderated it yet. this was the only way to screen
out all the yucky spam that comes every day.

[Metta]

4. Yeah, he's a loose cannon.

One doesn't have to extend the metaphor too far to get to that conclusion.

[oxbow]

5. Seriously, this is Dick "go fuck yourself" Cheney we're talkin about here!

Scariest veep EVER!

[Metta]

31. Heh, heh, heh. ... like I said.

The man is trouble with fries and a shake just waiting to happen. Did you know he has an ambulance on call? I'm sure that's part of why he's so volatile.

[Idylle Moon Dancer]

6. I don't have a particular feeling about the omen aspect

but two possibilities jump to mind:

1) he wanted to shoot the guy and covered with an appearance of incompetence.

2) he is distracted; his mind is not where it should be, and/or he is very paranoid.

[davsand]

7. He's a "loose cannon" maybe?

Acts without considering the outcome...

Unca Dick has been in the news lately for turning out Scooter to flap his gums, and now Unca Dick just bagged himself a lawyer out of season.

I don't think I've ever seen a better illustration of that phrase. I really don't.

All joking aside, that man Cheney shot is reported as being in the ICU. They can downplay it all they want--but you don't go to the ICU unless it is pretty bad.

I hope the shooting victim comes thru this ok.


Laura

[Bluestar]

8. Repetitive Careless Behavior

It is representative of his careless, poorly thought out decision-making. His actions are impulsive, such as outing a CIA operative for revenge without thought as to the consequences, attacking Iraq because he has wanted it for so long (since Senior Bush)without thought as to the consequences. This behavior was displayed even when he was CEO of Halliburton when he acquired a company with tremendous legal liability for asbestos lawsuits. Now he is trying to get US taxpayers to pay for that liability. The American people always have to pay for his rash decisions--Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.

I believe he suffers from a tremendous need to be "right". Even when he is proven wrong, he will push and manipulate to make it appear that he is powerful. In actuality, he has no power because he lives off the creativity and accomplishments of others. I see him as a giant energy suck for every entity that he comes into contact with.

It would be interesting to know more about his history with the poor man he shot--that might give us some more insight.

I'm only slightly psychic, but my business is helping people identify the barriers to their own success. If I had the opportunity to work on the Dick, I would start with "lack of power". Oh, how the American people are suffering because of this emotional block.

[Proud_Lefty]

9. My first thoughts were "Was it really an accident?"

When I told my kids, they each immediately asked that very same question. My brother hunts and shoots at targets and has included my son on the sport. I wasn't too happy about it initially until I saw the degree of caution people use when shooting for sport. They over-use caution at every turn, making accidents not all that common. An "accident" like this is possible, but not highly probable. Look at how long it took the media to break the story and something really horrible stinks. Maybe he finally snapped after having such a terrible week and his buddy said the wrong thing at the wrong time. If that's the case, I'd only be surprised that it happened to Cheney before Bush.

[liberalla]

15. That's what I thought too!

"Was it really an accident?"

The only reason the media found out was because Katharine Armstrong called her friend at the the local paper.

Asked by The New York Times why it did not make the news known, Cheney spokeswoman McBride said, "We deferred to the Armstrongs regarding what had taken place at their ranch."

what?!?! These people never 'defer' to others. They issue orders and must 'control' every situation.

Just not believeable. Very suspicious.

update at Editor & Publisher:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001995719

[tanyev]

17. Just saw on GMA an interview with the reporter at the local

Corpus Christi newspaper. That's how the story was broken--the lady who owns the ranch picked up the telephone and gave the story to a young reporter at a small newspaper. The reporter said, "I just started transcribing what she said." Ahuh.

[LiberalEsto]

40. I suspect booze

I wouldn't be surprised if he had been absolutely tanked. It would explain the delay in reporting the shooting. They wouldn't want the local law enforcement to come and breathalyze him.

[Proud_Lefty]

42. I wouldn't be surprised

But I think he cracked, possibly with alcohol. He never follows any rules and his world is finally starting to shrink around him.

[Proud_Lefty]

10. Delete - sorry, duplicate

[oxbow]

11. Anybody here see "Wedding Crashers?"

exact same thing happened, and during a quail hunt too. Huh...

[yellowdawgdem]

12. oops

Yes, it's really laden with meaning. My first thought was that maybe Fitzgerald has been getting a little too close to him and he is scared and real nervous. Otoh it shows his incredible penchant for violence, even the accidental kind. He is just a loose bullet and a bad shot. btw, hello, and glad you are doing the blog- I often read that.

[Matariki]

13. I was discussing this tonight with some friends

a magical group i'm involved with actually. we were speculating that there is a *lot* of energy being directed towards both revealing their crimes and justice being served. i think it is starting to hit them hard, i mean this will certainly cause a public relations problem at a time they can ill afford it. i certainly know a lot of magicians have done work towards this end. i wonder if it's even wise to post this...?

[loudsue]

14. The term "LOOSE CANNON" comes to mind.

Hi Nancy! :hi:

It's so good to see you 'round these parts! I, too, love your blog, but haven't signed up. I don't have a lot of posting time these days, as the job is CRAZY BUSY, and still 7-days a week.

:kick:

[BlueIris]

16. Not really an "omen" issue exactly, but I keep thinking: Aaron Burr.

Burr, I was surprised to note, was an Aquarius, like Cheney. Hamilton, if anyone cares, was a Capricorn. I can find anything about the birthday or birthplace info of the man Cheney shot. I also can't get all that much on the astrology surrounding the Burr-Hamilton duel, except in funny places like this: http://www.considerations-mag.com/articles/manToMan.htm

I've actually read a couple of biographies of Burr, and I find it amusing that according to some historians, in terms of values and philosophies about government, Burr is the polar opposite of Cheney. (Some authors go so far as to call Burr a "liberal" and Hamilton a "conservative," although I personally think that's being too simplistic and anachronistic.)

Let's see, what else...it happened pretty close to Lincoln's birthday. It's pretty hard not to wonder if there's significance to the Cheney incident having happened on the birthday of the man credited as bringing our nation out of a divisive, chaotic social and governmental crisis, considering how some view Cheney as such a divisive force. The "Lincoln/Burr" significance is impossible for me personally to ignore when I compare Cheney's crime here (I don't believe it was an accident at all) to the Burr-Hamilton shooting, considering that incident altered part of the course of our nation's history, particularly where matters of finance and leadership are concerned. (I'd forgotten until tooling around the web tonight that some people think Burr's fall from grace kept the United States from disintegrating into a coalition of loosely-related veritable city-states.)

Anyway, if anyone wants it:

Burr: 2/6/1756; Newark, NJ, time unknown
Hamilton: 1/11/1757; Nevis, British West Indies, time unknown (17N00 62W30)
The duel: July 11, 1804, Weehawken, NJ, 7 a.m.

No idea how many, if any, connections can be made between the conditions in Texas on Saturday for Mr. Cheney and Mr. Whittington, and those in Weehawken during the Burr-Hamilton situation. As a software-challenged beginner, I don't really have the resources to compare and contrast.

[Bluestar]

24. Regarding Aaron Burr

I did a quick and dirty web search last night and found (to my surprise) that Burr was accused and I believe convicted of treason. Also, someone ran a drawing of Aaron Burr alongside a picture of Cheney last night on DU and the resemblance was unbelievable! I think that Cheney is guilty of treason as well. The new information on Rawstory about Valerie Plame being involved in the intel gathering of Iran nuclear capabilties points out what a traitor he really is. There is a connection between these two men. If it is truly reincarnation of Burr to Cheney, then he is trying to prove something or perhaps reliving a past life that he can't shake. Our country benefited the first time, even though it did not seem so in the beginning. Perhaps some action that happens as a backlash against Cheney will once again make our country whole--I'm always an optimist and refuse to let fear take over.

To Secret Admirer: Thanks for the Valentine heart!

Bluestar

[cassiepriam]

27. very interesting

Bush's chart also shows old historic links to failure of leadership along with a brother and his father. They came back to right those wrongs, the charts were set up to do it, but they have failed once again. Can't shake it is right.

[cassiepriam]

29. Can you refresh my memory on the Burr story? and the duel?

Maybe it will shed some light on things?
American history classes were a long long time ago!
Thanks.

[Mabus]

36. Whittington's birth date: March 3, 1927

according to the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Whittington

They also have links to Burr and Hamilton there.

[BlueIris]

37. Thanks. I feel like such a dork. I couldn't find his wikipedia entry

to save my life. I was starting to think he was one of those "special" friends of Cheney, et al, about whom there was nothing official on or offline anywhere.

[Mabus]

39. No, the person not in the wiki is Pamela Pitzer Willeford

the other hunting companion of Cheney's. She's our ambassador to Switzerland and she is president of Pico Drilling Co. Her husband's name is George and he's a doctor (gastrointestinal). She was appointed by Bush to several Texas posts while he was governor. She's a big fundraiser. That's about all I know about one of Cheney's "special" hunting friends.

[NJCher]

56. used to drive past the duel site regularly

The duel: July 11, 1804, Weehawken, NJ, 7 a.m.


It is on what is known as the "gold coast." That's because that shoreline faces Manhattan and the view of NYC is not to be believed. It's utterly fantastic.

I used to teach up there, which is why I would drive past the duel site. Often, I would park my car and just go to the site and sit on a park bench, wondering what it must have been like.


Above is a pic of the site.




Cher

[cassiepriam]

18. Yes I have been thinking about it this way as well.

I have a very strong feeling that there is a lot of symbolism around the shooting.

From a clinical standpoint it appears to me the man is out of control. He may be using alcohol excessively. And the oxygen deprivation from his cardiac condition is fully apparent. We are looking at organicity and substance abuse. Not a good combination. The same with Bush and all of his accidents. Both suffer from similar problems.

From a metaphorical perspective, the shot gun means that his destructiveness is wide ranging now, not specific targets as they have been in the past. That all around him are in danger, friends and foe alike. It will be harder and harder for others to cover for him as his actions become more blatant and beyond the pale. There is also an element of pleasure from his killing and destruction. The man has strong sadistic tendencies. He is having fun but others will die from his pleasure. He cannot take others into account at all. All of his has been a game for him, like monopoly. He just wants to win and no one else is taken into account. None of the pain touches him at all. There is also a sexual component to all of this for him.

The main elements I get are his cognitive impairments, destructiveness, sadism, narcissism. A strange sexual piece I cannot quite figure out. Oh yes a great deal of anger coming from him, buried deep that goes way back. Hurting other feels good to him. Someone may have hurt him somehow when he was young. He has never gotten over it. Oh yes and money means a great deal to him as it fills a dark hole in his soul. But no money is enough. His greed is a sickness, money will not cure it, no more than salt water will to a thirsty man, money only makes his sickness worse.

This is what I am getting from the shooting, if I had a picture of the event I could tell more.

[cassiepriam]

19. PS The birds are important some how?

The bird piece is bugging me, I can't quite get to it yet.
I have not read much about the shooting. So the bird piece
is not clear. I need to know more about the birds.

The way things things happen to me is like a puzzle in my head.
It takes me a while to put it all together. I know certain pieces are important but I cannot always figure it out right away.

What do we know about the birds so far that were involved in the shooting event? I do not have time to look it up right now but I will later.

I do feel that the shooting episode is a strong metaphor and indication of what is going on with C.

Also I cannot say that anything that I am seeing is true or not. Just what I am getting. I could be all wrong!

[BlueIris]

20. The birds were allegedly quail.

I post allegedly, because some online sources are claiming that (not surprisingly) no one was actually hunting birds. Also, do you get anything about a third person involved who isn't Cheney? Some are claiming there is an aggressive effort by Cheney and his people to suppress information about another "hunter" on the trip with Cheney.

[cassiepriam]

25. Hmm....

I do not know the difference between quail and pheasants.
If someone is a bird person, it would be good to know about the symbolic nature of quails.

And now they are saying that they were not really hunting?
Huh.... so hard to get to the truth when there is so much BS.

I am also picking up a laziness about the event, C wanting to get something but not put any effort into it. Short cuts, laziness. Also a weakening and impotence of some sort.

I have not read the accounts but I had seen in my head other people. Not just one other man. Is that what they are saying, there was only one other person present?

[LiberalEsto]

41. What about the Secret Service detail? They'd be there.

They wouldn't allow Cheney out of their sight, particularly if his hunting companions were also carrying guns.

[japple]

21. Pheasants (farm-raised?). I read they were not afraid of humans.

Maybe a symbol for all those who do not quake in fear at mention of BIG DICK CHENEY.

Edited: changed quail to pheasants.

[japple]

23. Nope, it was quail. I just read an article fm. CNN. N/T

[cassiepriam]

26. The symbolism here could not be more clear.

Sheep to the slaughter. The death of innocents.
All for C's sport. Pretty sickening. He and Bush
have been entertained by the destruction they have wrought.
It is all sport and a game to them. Those destroyed have been
quite expendable. But now the game has changed. Friends are being hurt as well.

[Matariki]

30. the birds are coming home to roost

as are bush/cheney's misdeeds.

[cassiepriam]

44. Bizarre, I just found out there was a blond gal with them.

Maybe that was the strange sexual piece I felt.

[crikkett]

51. better latent than never... ?

"...There is also a sexual component to all of this for him..."

[Pathwalker]

22. Hmmm...Cheney runs "a-fowl" of the law?

Sorry for the bad pun, but this incident asked for it. Perhaps it means Cheney is going to need a lawyer very, very soon for his illegal leaking of classified information - one can hope!

:hi: Nancy, good to see you again - we've missed you! :hi:

Do you see any sign of a looming indictment against him?


Thanks to the very sweet secret admirier who gave me a Valentine heart - you are so knid, and greatly appreciated! :hug:

[Sanity Claws]

28. My first smile of the day

I loved your pun.

[Mabus]

32. I was interested in the blonde friend

The U.S. ambassador to Switzerland was the third member of a hunting party which went awry after Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot 78-year-old Austin, Texas attorney Harry Whittington, according to a story written for the Cox news service, RAW STORY has learned.

Pamela Willeford, a former Texas education official, accompanied Cheney and Whittington as they hunted quail at the Armstrong ranch in Texas on Saturday.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Third_hunter_revealed_in_Cheney_hunting_0213.html

Please, oh please let this be the blonde that takes down the Bush administration. Let's hope her presence helps fuel the fire that takes BushCo down.

[japple]

33. That woman looks like Lynne Cheney!!

If he was going to cheat on Lynne, why did he go after someone who looks just like her? Oh...maybe she doesn't ACT like Lynne!! :evilgrin:

[Mabus]

35. She certainly has Lynne's flair for fashion

That's gotta be the most flattering outfit for her skin color she could find. :sarcasm:

[tanyev]

38. *Gasp* Are you dissing Republican Red?

You must be one of the enemy! Prepare to be peppered!

:+

[Mabus]

48. As long as Cheney isn't administering the peppering

:yoiks:

[cassiepriam]

43. A good looking blond was with them?

This story gets more and more strange. Ambassador to Switzerland? and a former Texas education official? Wouldn't the Swiss post be considered a plum position? So what is the story on Blondie?
What did she do to get a cushy ambassadorship? People in education do not usually have a lot of money to make big contributions.

[Mabus]

34. The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers

Or in this case, maybe Whittington is symbolic of the law that Bush and Cheney have trying to engineer to their own aims and an omen that their current half-lie tactics won't work. After all, the GOP has been using a scattergun approach in justifying the by-passing of FISA.

Here's my rationale: Haven't they been trying to blow holes in the law to justify things like domestic wiretapping? They've been appealing to the hearts and minds of Americans through the use of blind fear. (Whttington was hit in the upper chest (hearts) and in the face (minds). They've been trying to emphasize awareness and prevention but this incident highlights how they have reacted more out of fear and desperation. Good sportsmen are aware of where their hunting companions are, Cheney apparently was unaware of where Whittington was when he spun around and shot him. It also reminds me of how their best laid plans seem to backfire in their faces.

Add to this the delay in reporting. The delaying of reporting the incident plays on multiple levels. It very subtly reminds people of DeLay and Texas and helps solidify the two words together with a questionable circumstance. On another level it subtly reminds people of the delay of informing the American people of what really happened ala Iraq and/or Katrina. And I hate to say this but, it does remind a lot of people about Teddy and Chappaquiddick - what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I hope this incident haunts Cheney for the rest of his life like the GOP has tried to ruin Ted.

The story surrounding the shooting itself is one that doesn't quite pass muster. Something smells about it. Like a fish story. Red staters are familiar with quail hunting. They know the story doesn't quite add up. This helps because it helps to cast further doubt on the veracity of the words coming from the current WH occupants.

[cliss]

45. Cheney -

is a very dark person. I read recently that because of all the media attention focused on Scooter Libby, Cheney has retreated into near-privacy. He's seldom seen any more. Currently, he uses his family members as his most trusted advisors. His family members! He has a wife & 2 daughers. Can you imagine 3 women, advising him on warfare, killing, threatening the world and in general saber-rattling.

A very strange scenario, indeed.

As far as the hunting accident, what about this 3rd hunter? What if Cheney shot them both, and maybe killed one of them? Maybe it was seen as the "lesser of two evils" to at least divulge the injuries to the one. Also, what if Mr. Whittington dies from his injuries? After all, the man is 78 years old. He's in the ICU, so this is no trivial accident.

About this "blonde", I really doubt there is any romantic intrigue. I have felt for a long time that Cheney is in fact a repressed closet gay. I believe he was the one who ordered the perverted abuse which happened in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Randi Rhodes said that it was all "gay porn" in the photos.

There was a photo of Cheney today on Yahoo news. I had to move up close to take a good look at it. It literally took my breath away. There is something so sick, so twisted about him that words just fall short. The right half of the face especially was frightening. If I met Satan, he would look charming in comparison to this man.

[Sanity Claws]

46. Do you have link to that Yahoo photo?

I went on Yahoo to find it but couldn't.

[cliss]

53. Sorry - I tried but

there's no sign of it. It might reappear. If I see it again, I'll save it in "My photos" on my desktop. ugh.....

[Sanity Claws]

54. It was so ugly that Yahoo had to remove it

That's my theory. Yahoo was receiving just too many complaints about his ugliness.

[Me.]

47. I'm Wondering If This Is The Tipping Point For Him

It's been on the way for a long time and like Katrina this story is gathering speed. I also find it interesting that the guy's heart is being affected, and that you could describe Cheney's as full full of pellets.

[Nancy Waterman]

49. Cheney's dark deed is a metaphor of the adminstration

I just heard from the legal analyst on AA that if the man Cheney shot dies, Cheney could be tried for negligent homicide. I had originally thought of this whole thing as an omen, but now I see it as a metaphor for everything they do.

Recklessly shoot first without thinking of the consequences.

Try and cover up the deed and deny responsibity.

Blame the victim.

Minimize and lie about the consequences.

[Nancy Waterman]

50. I like what Cassie described

From a metaphorical perspective, the shot gun means that his destructiveness is wide ranging now, not specific targets as they have been in the past. That all around him are in danger, friends and foe alike. It will be harder and harder for others to cover for him as his actions become more blatant and beyond the pale...

[Cleita]

55. I didn't think about it until today.

It struck me that the whole HEART element in this was almost karmic and very ironic. I did a post in GD, but I'll reiterate it here.

It seemed like destiny stepped in on this man, Cheney, who is regarded as HEARTless, and whose real HEART keeps trying to escape him, that he would have this accident on the weekend before a holiday that is about HEARTS and love, Valentine's Day. He shot the man with bird shot and the pellets grazed the man's HEART causing him to have a small HEART attack.

Then there is speculation that one of the women could be his girlfriend on the side. A psychologist who studies shootings like this said earlier on the Al Franken show that these accidents aren't really accidents but emotional shootings that involve women and alcohol.

Of course the last paragraph is nothing more than speculation, but that would certainly add to the lovers aspect. Perhaps the old lawyer flirted with Cheney's girlfriend and Cheney still warm with alcohol turned and shot him. This would bring the HEARTbreak aspect into it.

I mean this could have been scripted by Venus and Cupid.

[hippiechick]

60. Ugh, the thought of Darth having a GIRLFRIEND ...

:puke: :scared: :puke: :scared:

[NJCher]

57. don't try this topic outside the astrology forum

LOL! I did and some poster by the name of danalytical or some such thing absolutely went apoplectic. Would that he could come and read this entire thread, full of ideas as to what the symbolic meaning of this event is. Anyway, this is the post I put on the thread that set him off:

As we know, Cheney is nothing more than a major league thief crusading as a politician. He knows his craft well, having been in the game for a lifetime. He is, however, encountering opposition from people who actually have a political philosophy--people like the libertarian lawyer he shot.

Whether this is an accident or purposeful, I would still argue that the shooting was an act of the subconscious. On some level, he knew what he was doing.

I also think this action is a result of the enormous stress he's under. He knows the jig is up and it's only a matter of time.


So what I'm saying is that I think Cheney shot Whittington because Whittington is a symbol of the republicans who are turning on him. The idealogical republicans, who now see that Cheney is nothing more than a thief and a fraud.

------------

It just so happens that I checked the latest threads and one just appears that maintains that Cheney is paranoid that he's going to be assassinated and that's why he was so trigger-happy. Here's the URL:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x436564

There's some great stuff on this thread. Cassiepriam, that insight of yours resonated with me.




Cher

[cliss]

58. Some more comments on Cheney:

Cheney is a hard one to read. I've read lots of adjectives used to describe him: arrogant, sinister, secretive, power monger, sadistic, cruel, out of control, evil

He's definitely a mystery man. The truth is: people don't like him. They have never been able to find anything sympathetic about him. He just comes off as arrogant, not caring at all what people think of him. Even the White House PR people admit: "We really haven't done enough to create an image for him". I guess even they couldn't concoct a phony image of a caring "grandpa" or "elderly statesman" because it was probably too difficult.

It's well known he has an approval rating of about 19%. Maybe they figure if he keeps himself hidden, at least it won't get worse. On Wednesday, Cheney showed up for his Cameo Confession at Fox. He did his best to appear sad and downtrodden. All I saw was a man who loves to lie and get away with it. Cheney told some lies in that interview! And oh, how smooth he is. Just a slight glitter in his eyes, the corners of his mouth turn up ever so slightly. He loves it! It's like winning some kind of contest for him.

Cheney is a man of contradictions. He has a million dollar mansion which was featured in Architectural Digest. And yet, he eats greasy cheese burgers and fatty crap which has caused 4 heart attacks. Last year, he went to a memorial service wearing a ski parka with white fur trim. The Europeans wore elegant black coats, and here a man who probably is a billionaire by now can't even dress himself.

Cheney has an eloquent vocabulary. There's no doubt the man can express himself like a college professor. At the same time, he tells Senator Leahy to go fuck himself. During the VP debates last year, I was impressed with how knowledgeable he seemed. He seemed sure of himself, had lots of facts and figures. But when I listened closely, I noticed several distortions and outright lies. He's smart, and yet he lies constantly.

He's unbelievably rigid. No matter how much the facts are in his face, he refuses to back down. And this has kept him powerful for a long, long time. But the game is growing old. The Americans are tired of this bull-shit. They want him out.

[NJCher]

59. he's a loser at most things

Everything he touches turns to @%#@. I don't need to recount it all here; we at DU know it.

I'd like to say he's at least good at keeping the money he stole but the truth of the matter is that it's probably more a weakness of the system than anything.

Your post does a good job of describing the contradictions with him.




Cher