Is there a sensible website dedicated to the autism/vaccine paranoia?

[progressoid]

I'm looking for something reasonable:eyes: and simple to respond to some emails. I've received three emails about this from the same person.
Here's the fun part. She ran for US House of Representative twice (and lost).

I deleted the first two that were more hysterical. Here's the latest one that she has forwarded:

-------------------------------------

Good Morning!

Use this where helpful to educate our friends. Mercury has been taken out of so many things, with strong warnings of the danger, yet it still goes into every pregnant woman, every senior citizen, most children, without our awareness…..called the shot in the arm. At the same time, the non-mercury immunizations often are on the shelf, not requested, and sometimes just tossed out.

I don’t want to state outright that mercury is the only cause of autism. There are undoubtedly other points of impact on children and seniors. The fact is that the rates of diagnosis for both autism and Alzheimer is going up, steeply, at about the same rate. The only thing in common that I can find is: mercury in immunizations.

What am I missing?



With thanks.......XXXXXXXXX



FACTS:

1 in 6 enter school with dev delay-1 in 150 classical autism estimates,15 year old stats, now thought 1 in 70.

Mercury (thimerosal) continues to be given large amounts in influenza vaccines routinely recommended to infants and pregnant women.

Mercury is the second most toxic substance known to man-it affects every cell in the body-the brain, kidneys, heart, GI system, etc

There were no safety studies done on children before it was use in vaccines in the early 1930's

There are no ongoing long term studies evaluating effects of vaccines.

Current studies are meant for damage control. We need damage recoverery/repair, that will be costly, ie educatation already impacted, few can afford medical therapies. But we must stop the damage and work for repair

Mercury is just one of the toxic ingredients in vaccines, need a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study

Most people do not know mercury still in vaccines, esp influenza. Most would not get it if they knew.

Mercury was removed form vaccines-1999 it was recommended to remove ASAP but was NEVER BANNED. Still remains in 90% of flu shots at full toxic strength.

Methy and Ethyl like wicked stepsisters. Both cause damage at nanomolar level (from Age of Autism articles-some very good ones on there now. I just started to read them.)

[TZ]

1. Really the most comphrensive is NIAID.

This is not simple science, and the person who is sending obviously has NO scientific knowlege (I never heard the term "nanomolar" level in my life.).
But this is informative.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosal.htm
I doubt anything is gonna convince this idiot though.

Please emphasize though that the "large amounts" of thimerosol in vaccines is.01% of which mercury is a miniscule amount.re

On edit: also refer this idiot to the FDA about clinical trials. I would like to know how 10 years of toxicology and safety studies before ANY vaccine is put on the market as "no long term studies".*snort*
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2007/207_trials.html

[lizerdbits]

2. Nano is 10^-9

I'd guess most things in the nanomolar concentration aren't that harmful (depending of course on the full amount given). Did you know that femto is 10^-15 and pico is 10^-12? Wow, I am a dork.

[TZ]

3. yes in theory I knew what it was

but I think it was a term somebody threw out to scare people.If they knew what they were talking about don't you think we would hear terms like LD-50 or toxicological studies? Nanomolarity=sciency type babble designed to make other morons think I know science.
Do you know any non-scientists who even know what molarity is?
And yes, you are a dork.;-)

[cosmik debris]

4. I've never heard any medical reference to molarity.

In the medical field things are usually measured in ml, mg, or decimal divisions of those. In solutions they use %.

People who don't want to be understood always use terminology that is out of place.

[Random_Australian]

9. Hmmm, I thought measurements of hormones were done like that (well, micromolar).

Something about similar effect/concentration with very different molar masses.

But maybe that is just an urban legend. Told by teenagers trying to frighten each other or whatever.

[cosmik debris]

19. You have gone way past my knowledge level.

I was speaking about routine stuff that I have seen in the many hospitals I visited in my former career. But I did not deal directly with any meds, just delivery systems.

[Random_Australian]

8. Correct.

Well, "most things" is a bit loose. Things like palytoxin are lethal at much less than that.

And everyone knows at least tera-giga-mega-kilo-milli-micro-nano-pico-femto, so I don't think you are a dork. I think I have a distorted notion of "everyone", though.

Did I mention that you bieng a dork and me having distorted notions of "everyone" are mutually exclusive?

[TZ]

12. hmp

Talk about the nerd calling the dork black, or something to that effect! As to the measurements, I have only ever seen references to molarity with chemical concentrations, not with any biologics. As cosmik debris said usually the concentrations are expressed in mg/ml,ng/ml, etc....When we get a TITER (hee-hee) on antibodies we usually express it as mg/ml.
And also remember most people here don't do metric so don't know the tera giga mega etc. I've heard people I know bitch about the metric system and I just roll my eyes, having to use it. I think the metric system is just too rational for people here.:eyes:

[Random_Australian]

13. Only seen moles in chemistry? There is a simple way out, then.

Just do biological chemistry, and they will use moles.

It's not like there is a non-arbitrary boundary between the two, after all.

......... but the one thing that really, really provokes my curiosity is people bitching about the metric system. Living here, I've never heard arguments against it.... what kind of possible argument is there? What do they say?

[TZ]

14. Its the whole "learning" thing

People just don't want to make the effort. Its hard to adjust to certain things. I have to admit, when I have travelled outside the US, converting miles to kilometers and gallons to liters (of gas) is a bit difficult. Converting Farenheit to Celsius etc.
People just don't want to bother. They have used these outdated conventions all their lives and see no reason to change now.
I understand your curiosity. I used to have constant US vs. Australia conversations with my boss at NIH and the metric system not being used here was one point I could never argue agaisnt. As he says, it just doesn't make sense when the rest of the world uses the metric system. One of the most egregious examples of americancentrism I'm afraid..wanting the rest of the world to bend to "our ways", no matter how irrational and impractical that is.
:banghead:

[dropkickpa]

23. It's too hard, it's too different, etc

My response is that it's only hard if you are incapable of counting to 10. There's a reason most scientific work is done using the metric system. I suck at normal measurement conversions (especially when cooking), but metric is so simple and direct I don't think twice about making conversions for that.

As a side note, I almost completely brain-froze a colleague when I was trying to explain that units are just hundreths of an ml when using insulin syringes vs regular. It even says it on the damn insulin syringe, but she just COULD NOT grasp it.

The only thing I have confusion with is converting km and l to miles and gallons, but I know it's just a matter of learning to NOT look to mentally convert them.

[lizerdbits]

15. I said most because I was thinking of toxins

I remembered a microbiology professor saying "X tablespoons of purified botulism toxin could kill the everyone on the planet!" Barring an allergic reaction I doubt many drugs would have desired effects or side effects at a nanomolar concentration in the blood.

[Random_Australian]

16. Yes, and I was agreeing, but with palytoxin as an example, not botulin.

:)

Someone is too used to arguing!

:)

Edit: Noooooo! Botulin beats palytoxin by 8ng/kg for the LD50!

This time, you've won. Next time, oh yes, next time.

[TZ]

17. Wow! I am marking this day on my calender

I remember you talking about the lethality of palytoxin before.
Lizerdbits beat you on a chemistry thing!!
Lizerdbits is a bigger nerd than you are! (at least for today):evilgrin:

[lizerdbits]

18. You should win on all the chemistry

So I will expect it next time. Just to make you feel better I'd never heard of palytoxin so I had to google it, because I'm a dork. I just remembered the bot reference, and seeing that palytoxin is produced by corals and I'm a microbiologist that's why I never heard of it. I did do a short presentation in undergrad on saxitoxin which is made by algae ('red tides'). Have we hijacked this thread? It's toxic now. HAHA, I'm so funny! Well not really....

[Random_Australian]

21. Aye, I only heard about it because its synthesis is widely regarded as the

greatest synthesis of all time.

Its toxicity was a side-note. It would have made for interesting safety regulations, though.

[TZ]

20. I feel better

My PhD friend in the lab (she does validation work) just looked at me with a "huh"? look when I mentioned nanomolar. She is of the same opinion as me..used as technobabble term.

[Random_Australian]

22. Personally, I'd argue that the use of the word "toxic" was worse, as it made no

mention of the exact meaning. We use LD50 for a reason!

But yeah, technobabble.

[progressoid]

7. I knew you would be on top of this!

Thanks for the links. I had a couple things bookmarked from a recent "discussion" on DU.

This one from Scientific American. "Is There Really an Autism Epidemic?"
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=is-there-really-an-autism-epidemic

And this from the CDC:
http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/concerns/thimerosal.htm

All of this conspiracy, fear mongering, conjecture and just plain wild-ass guesses masquerading as science drives me crazy!

[varkam]

5. There are some pretty good blogs that I read regularly on this issue:

Respectful Insolence - http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/

NeuroLogica - http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/default.asp

Here's a couple sites that you might find helpful, as well:

Bandolier - http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/

IVS - http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/

Here's some published research to counter some of those claims:

Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data -
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/114/3/793

The Contribution of Diagnostic Substitution to the Growing Administrative Prevalence of Autism in US Special Education -
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/117/4/1028

ETA Oh, yeah...WTF is "nanomolar"?!

[progressoid]

10. Holy cow.

Now that's some reading materials. I have a job to do too ya know. :) I can't spend all day on the internet. Well, maybe I can on Thursday.

I hope I don't have to distill any of it down to something a little more...how shall I say...pedestrian. I'm afraid that even the most obvious evidence won't convince her.

[Warpy]

6. "There are no ongoing long term studies evaluating effects of vaccines. "

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Other people have listed the sites. I supplied the real howler in the OP.

I am not surprised this person was defeated. She is too dumb to breathe and walk at the same time.

[progressoid]

11. Ya, unfortunately, she was our only option.

I live in the reddest part of the state and our current Rep usually pops up in the top three most conservative in congress. Yuck.

I think we have a slightly better chance this time around with a different Democratic challenger. He's an ex-minister!!

[trotsky]

24. This site is fantastic if the anti-vaxer is a Democrat.

http://www.ecbt.org

Let them try and explain how Rosalynn Carter is part of the big pharma / big mercury conspiracy. :eyes:

[LeftishBrit]

25. This includes some useful stuff:

http://www.answers-about-autism.info/autism-resources.html

And here is a link to Helen Heussler's letter to the British Medical Journal, which suggests that the 'autism epidemic' is largely due to changes in diagnosis.

http://www.answers-about-autism.info/autism-resources.html