What do you make of this?

[Orrex]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=7905547&mesg_id=7905547

I frankly lack the chops to discuss the chemistry/physics/witchcraft of something like this, but it seems to me that this claim pops up every few months.

Thoughts?

[realisticphish]

1. a long time ago

SGU had a report about it, but my recollection is fuzzy. If i remember correctly, it can indeed be done, but it requires a massive amount of energy to do it

it also might have had something to do with electralysis, and burning of hydrogen, but i'm too lazy to go look

[MrMonk]

2. Electrolysis

The RF generator induces an electrical current in the salt water, causing the water to split into oxygen and hydrogen. The hydrogen/oxygen mixture burns at a high temperature.

Electrolysis of the salt generates some chlorine gas. The excess sodium combines with water to form sodium hydroxide and some more hydrogen, so the pH of the water should change as electrolysis continues. Salt wicked up through the paper towel or wetting the inside of the test tube gives the flame its orange color.

Energy-inefficient. Only a small portion of the EM energy is going to contact the water sample and most of that is going to heat the water or pass right through.

[salvorhardin]

3. Exactly

If you notice in the video, his RF generator goes up to 1,400 watts. That's quite a bit of energy to be pumping into so small a volume of water. Microwave ovens are generally about 60% efficient so assuming his RF generator is about the same he's likely using around 2,300 watts of electricity to electrolyze the water.


I wonder what frequency he's using? It can't be microwave frequencies, otherwise the water would just boil wouldn't it?

[MrMonk]

5. MW would make it boil.

I tried to google some more information on RF-induced electrolysis, but couldn't find anything about the frequencies needed in the first two pages, so I let it go. IIRC, higher frequencies carry more power, but, of course, more power is needed to generate them.

[TZ]

4. I don't remember his exact comments but

R_A, our local chemistry/physics nerd seems unimpressed with this, and I do know this damn topic keeps popping up--its been posted in Science at least 3 times though.
The woos all think its COOL.

[cosmik debris]

6. This scam has been around since the sixties. Maybe longer.

It was even a frequent joke on the sit-com That 70's Show.

There seems to be a small minority that still buy it. (One born every minute)

Oh well.

[madinmaryland]

7. Florida man ingnites salt water with "his machine"

:wtf: is his machine. Is this actually work safe.

How did he do that????

:wtf:

[salvorhardin]

8. It's an RF generator, like a microwave oven except at a different frequency

The RF waves, concentrated on such a small volume of water, are inducing electrolysis.
See posts #2 and #3 above.

[madinmaryland]

9. Oh. I thought it had to do with a certain part of the man's anatomy!

:hide:

[TZ]

10. Pev!

Take that to the Lounge...stop peeing in the pool here......:rofl:

[madinmaryland]

12. Hey!

There is NO imagination about teh machine!!1!!

:rofl:

[salvorhardin]

11. Oh!

I'm humor impaired today.

[jberryhill]

13. I'm really surprised....

....that putting magnets on fuel lines isn't making a big comeback.

I've been running on homeopathic 10X gasoline for weeks now.