If I ever see another DU thread about N'Kisi the wonder parrot

[Orrex]

I'm going to freak out. Raaawwwkk! Freak out! Freak out! Raaaawwaaack!

[TZ]

1. Is that an African Gray Parrot?

I actually am fascinated by African Gray Parrots..There behavior is quite high level and interesting..Do I think they are MORE intelligent than humans..No doubtful given their brain structure..but nonetheless interesting behaviorally and worth studying..(I went to school thinking I was going to go into animal behavior)
One irritation I don't share I suppose..I don't get tired of these parrot stories...not at all.

However, given I think I know which thread set this off, the idea that many animals are capable of self awareness/sentience is of course anthropomorphic nonsense.
As I told someone who said all animals are capable of this..anything without an organized brain, like all the invertebrates are NOT. The idea that a sea cucumber is sentient or a flea or a paramecium is laughable...and if they are capable of intelligence..how do you account for plants like the venus fly trap.....

[Orrex]

3. That's the one

I don't doubt that many birds have impressive cognitive abilities; at least one crow, for example, has been shown to modify pieces of its environment to fashion what can only be called tools. And the African Gray Parrot in particular is famously very clever.

But the evidence in support of N'Kisi's alleged language abilities is very weak and suppositional, akin to "facilitated communication" by autistic children or even other animals. In effect, someone acts as a "facilitator" to help clarify what N'Kisi is "saying."

There is, in fact, a certain contingent that claims that N'Kisi isn't just chatty; he's telepathic! That would be one hell of a bird, to be sure, but the evidence supporting claims of telepathy is even more shoddy than that supporting N'Kisi's capacity for real inter-species communication.


But because N'Kisi is a cute animal, his proponents on DU (I don't mean you--the more gung-ho crowd) won't hear anything that contradicts their pre-formed image of him.

[TZ]

5. Ah yes..I can see how that irritates you.

Well you know..Thats an unfortunate common belief. My older sister regulary brings in a "pet communicator" (aka pet psychic) to help her with her dogs...:eyes:

[madinmaryland]

2. Is that a brazilian parrot??

[WoodrowFan]

4. A Norwegian Blue?

beautiful plumage!

[moggie]

6. Skepdic has a good article on N'Kisi

http://www.skepdic.com/nkisi.html

I wasn't surprised to see that Rupert Sheldrake was involved. :-(

[Orrex]

8. Thanks for the link!

As a matter of fact, I posted that link in the current thread re: N'Kisi. I'm addicted to Skepdic.com.

[onager]

7. Ode to intelligent animals and the peacefulness of nature...

With big hungry tigers, table manners have no place
After they have eaten you they never say their grace.

Hunting tigers can be ripping fun!
Like three blind mice, see the hunters run.
Hunting tigers out in Indiah
Out in, out in, out in Indiah!
Yah!

They bite, they scratch, they make an awful fuss
It’s no use stroking them and saying "Puss, puss, puss."

I say Joe, it’s jolly frightening out here.
Nonsense, dear boy, you should be like me.
But look at you, you’re shaking all over! What's the matter with you?
Shaking, you silly goose, I’m just doing the Watusi, that’s all!

Tigers don’t go out on rainy nights
They’ve no need to whet their appetites.

How many tigers can you find with forks and serviettes?
Don’t care in what part of you they fix their fretwork sets.

Hunting tigers can be ripping fun!
Like three blind mice, see the hunters run.
Hunting tigers out in Indiah
Out in, out in, out in Indiah!
Yah!

Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band

[Orrex]

9. Follow-up

Someone in that thread claimed that Native Americans could, prior to European intrusion, speak with and understand the speech of animals.

It's possible that the poster was kidding, but I didn't get that sense from context...

[realisticphish]

10. sir

pocahontas was not a documentary

[Orrex]

11. LOL!

My reply to him mentioned a guy in Europe whose magical hammer always returns to his hand, and he has an iron glove impervious to heat and cold.

No response to my post yet, though...