Vaccines,monoclonals and other drugs which eliminate the need for long term medicine

[TZ]

So. The woos claim that no one is trying to "cure" anything because it would cut into their profits.
Well thats just wrong.
First of all you have the HPV vaccine which will PREVENT cancer! Gasp all that potential chemotherapy money down the drain! And psst--a second HPV vaccine which blocks even MORE strains is coming on the market.
Then you have something else in clinical trials..Helicobacter Pylori vaccine. For those who don't know, the bacteria H.Pylori is the CAUSE of ulcers. So now, instead of having to take all sorts of different meds, a lot of people can take a short course of anti-biotics to get rid of their stomach issues. GASP! But what about the profits from their indigestion medications? Oh noes!
Oh plus there is good evidence that H.Pylori also causes stomach cancer. A vaccine could prevent even more chemotherapy! Oh noes!
Then there are monoclonal antibody treatment for cancer..where one gets specifically tailor made antibodies that attack the receptor on cancer cells..GOING AFTER THE CANCER AT THE CELLULAR LEVEL.
Imagine that cell specific treatment for cancer...wow. Could eliminate the need for radiation and chemo as well!
Plus there are cancer vaccines that actually attack the TUMOR. Again..eliminating the need for chemo and radiation.
Finally the best one of all..transmission blocking vaccines for malaria...research being done by NIH and the Navy and MERCK...A vaccine that doesn't protect the person per se from getting malaria but destroys the malaria IN THE MOSQUITO. In theory a handful of vaccinated people could eliminate malaria from a very large geographical area. Eliminating the need for expensive malarial drugs that don't always work AND for large scale and expensive vaccination...And Merck is playing a HUGE role in this research. I should know.I helped produce data for a paper about this with both NIH and Merck researchers that was publishing in the Procedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

All this research is going on in both public and PRIVATE venues. The truth is the best medical research these days are carried out by govt/private corp collaborations--and they produce some very good science, although you will never hear about it on the MSM..which of course is the be all source for science..NOT.

[dropkickpa]

1. No one's trying to cure anything?

Shit, don't spread that around my work, the researcher's staff would be REALLY pissed about all this time and effort they've apparently wasted!!

[kimmerspixelated]

2. Do you have children?

Just answer the question first.

[TZ]

3. ...

Irrelevant..Oh and:

[kimmerspixelated]

7. No, I'm not going to get on the insulting bandwagon.

I have an 11 year old daughter, and I have gone through many painstaking days and nights of research, NOT just on the internet to try to convince me about going forward with vaccines in general not just the Gardasil one.I was looking for the definitive answer- LOOKING TO BE CONVINCED! ... It's very hard to be convinced. It's very hard to knowingly have a very, very dear loved one injected with toxic shit our bodies don't know how to deal with.

I am not alone. It is excruciating-repeat- excrutiating when someone says to you, "Oh, don't you want to protect your daughter?" Luckily that doesn't happen everyday. There are quite a few on my side. There's an enormous amount that know that there's an awful lot of merit to prevention, and believe it or not-also powerful herbs( that have been around thousands of years) that will take care of just about anything. I'm actually more into healing foods than anything else. I actually go herbal as a last resort.

Sure, just because you aren't a parent-doesn't really mean anything...it just means that you've only had to worry about yourself. I was that way for 40 years! A really big light pops up in your life, and suddenly all you want to do is protect them. You never want anything unpure to ever touch them...sure later-you give into candy and such to appease them. But still.

But there are some facts about cervical cancer I found: It is very beatable.

According to the CDC, cervical cancer used to be the leading cause of cancer death for women in the United States. However, in the past 40 years, the number of cervical cancer cases and the number of deaths thereof have decreased significantly. It is believed that this decline is the result of many women getting regular Pap tests, which can find cervical pre-cancer before it turns into cancer.According to the U.S. Cancer Statistics: 2004 Incidence and Mortality report, 11,892 women in the U.S. were told that they had cervical cancer in 2004, and 3,850 women died from the disease. The American Cancer Society mirrors these statistics, estimating that about 3,870 women will die from cervical cancer in the U.S. in 2008.

Well. We’ve already lost 18 girls, some as young as 12, in the effort to spare them from the mere possibility of cervical cancer later in life. Others have developed debilitating and potentially life-threatening ailments within weeks of being vaccinated, and others still have had spontaneous abortions or given birth to babies with birth defects.

Also consider this: Cervical cancer usually develops in your late 20s to mid 30s. The protection period of Gardasil is estimated to be 5 years. That means, if you receive your first set of shots when you’re 10 years old, you’d need at least 2 to 4 additional booster shots to make it through your 30s. And THAT means you’ll have to expose yourself to the potential side effects of Gardasil over and over and over again.

But now to the real clincher, and I want you to read the following section as many times as you need to let this truly sink in…

!!!!!!!!!U.S. statistics show there are 30 to 40 cervical cancer cases per year per one million women between the ages of 9 and 26, which is the age bracket that Gardasil targets (and was tested on).

According to Merck, Gardasil was shown to reduce pre-cancers by 12.2% to 16.5% in the general population. So, instead of ending up with 30 to 40 cases of cancer per million, per year, in that age bracket, the HPV vaccine can potentially bring it down to 26 to 35 cases of cervical cancer.

What that means is that you would have to vaccinate one million girls to prevent cervical cancer in 4 to 5 girls.


I'm sorry, the campaign about Gardasil is based on a lot of fear-mongering.

True story: I knew a woman who got cervical cancer. She hadn't been to a doc. for a pap smear in 9 years!!! Was a smoker to boot!!! However, she did have surgery and beat it!!!

Now given all those facts, why do we have to jump the gun and inject so many toxins into our loved ones???

Signed-Your favorite idiot woo!

[TZ]

8. Yes its okay for girls to die of cervical cancer--just like fundies think

You are the one who always shrieks about Big Pharma not wanted to cure anything..and yet when it comes to PREVENTION you nay say it.
BTW, Merck is not the inventor of Gardasil..an Australian Scientist is..he was NAMED AUSTRALIAN OF THE YEAR IN 2006. In fact Australia has a very successful HPV program.
Oh and if you had done YOUR RESEARCH, you would know that vaccines AREN'T toxic...they are in fact mostly the microorganism that they protect agaisnt...HELLO...just like you get naturally.
Once again you lack even the most basic grasp of biology. I'm dead serious when I say you should read a textbook on biology. NOT INTERNET BULLSHIT.

As for your thousands of year old herbs..Funny how the life span of people who were treated on herbs were about 40 years less than they are today..Hmmmm. and the infant/child mortality rate is much lower--how many herbs do you think worked agaisnt small pox and the black plague btw? I bet an awful lot of the 1/3 of the European population killed were taking those same herbs.Face the fact. Western med/science works and works well.
I hope you live in a bubble..cause there are a lot of viri and bacterium "toxins" floating out there..

[kimmerspixelated]

9. VACCINES AREN'T TOXIC?????????????????????????

:rofl:


I honestly don't have time to address everything brought up. But thanks! My mouth is on the floor!!!! Mercury!- Formalgahyde-etc., etc., etc., Wow-It's really okay!!! I'll tell others!!

[cosmik debris]

10. .

[varkam]

11. WTF is "Formalgahyde"???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

No, vaccines aren't toxic - much like the salt in your kitchen won't kill you, either. Many of the ingredients in vaccines are bound up much the same way.

In addition, the dose makes the poison - but I'm sure you already knew that from your research.

[TZ]

12. !!!

:rofl:
Formalgahyde! You know its been YEARS since I walked into a lab that had any formalgahyde....:rofl:


FYI..since we have an illiterate here--let me just say that FORMALDEHYDE is expressly ONLY used for preservation of tissue cultures used in a lab..its banned from any biologic that is sold..but I guess you missed that in your "research". Nor is thimerosol which is NOT mercury btw..except for a handful of flu vaccines which you can get without.
Let the woos keep coming..they sure are looking stupid right now...

[varkam]

16. I thought it might be some kind of new naugehyde.

Shows how much I know :shrug:

[kimmerspixelated]

18. I apologize for the incorrect spelling of FORMALDEHYDE!

Feeling better with all the insults? Good! It's hard work being a complete bully all the time, isn't it?

[varkam]

19. "Do you have children?"

You came into the SSP group to stir up crap, and started off with an ad hominem.

If you don't like the acrimony, I would suggest examining your own posting style.

[TZ]

21. Umm

I'm not a bully. I just have a problem with people who post stuff thats totally WRONG..(I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not conducting a deliberate misinformation campaign...I have a hard time believing that someone can be so ignorant of both high school biology and chemistry though.)
Your misspelling doesn't really make up for the fact of the total INACCURACY of that post.

[kimmerspixelated]

45. This reply was refreshing.

You actually disagreed without being nasty, of which I applaud. However, it's really too late for me. I find it nauseating how you and some of your buddies are having a hell of a time at my expense. I should have put you and others on ignore long before now. I will be making a decision soon about how many ignores to use, because, at this point, I don't even care about the discussion anymore! You guys don't inform-you infuriate! Forget vaccines! YOU people have become extremely toxic! Notice, I'm not just pointing a finger at you! I have no place for TOXIC HUMANS in my life!

[Random_Australian]

23. More importantly, you claimed that the presence of various chemicals meant vaccines were toxic.

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but I'm sure you already knew that from your research.the dose makes the poison - but I'm sure you already knew that from your research.the dose makes the poison - but I'm sure you already knew that from your research."

In other words, I feel that you have not sufficiently addressed the point made. In fact, I don't believe you've addressed it at all.

[TZ]

26. omg

Talk about making a point that one can't ignore!:patriot:

[kimmerspixelated]

44. You might need to check into therapy.

Just a suggestion.

[Random_Australian]

46. True, all I do is insult people rather than respond to the points they make.

There's gotta be something wrong with that.

[varkam]

48. More ad homs.

Poor you.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mr blur]

25. !!

[PVnRT]

14. Did you know cyanogen bromide is used to make insulin?

Insulin contains cyanide! Oh no!

Those compounds are part of the large-scale manufacturing process. If you think the FDA doesn't do its job, why don't you ask all the thalidomide survivors in Europe?

[varkam]

4. I guess when you can't refute what's being said, you have to go for the personal attacks...

As we all know, being a mommy makes you an scientific expert. And what's more - do you have any business posting here? You're certainly not a skeptic, nor respectful.

Way to go, Fitzmas!

[TZ]

5. Jumping on the bandwagon

When did this forum become woo central?

[varkam]

6. Maybe it's their migratory season.

Perhaps they're flying to from A/S to Health for the winter, but have to come through the Skeptic's group to get there.

[HamdenRice]

13. I did a venture capital financing for monoclonal anti-bodies

based chemotherapy in 1982. Very interesting technology. It has taken a very long time, however, for the practical benefits of this exciting technology to materialize.

[varkam]

15. Are you feeling okay? eom

[HamdenRice]

17. Yup, just fine

IIRC, it was in the range of $4 - $6 million. We represented the venture capital fund. As a junior financial professional in training, my job was due diligence, which included trying to figure out whether the biotech firm had title to its intellectual property, and valid licenses to use technology they needed, as well as checking through their board minutes and resolutions.

Also had to understand the capital structure, which is usually the same for these start ups -- millions of worthless shares issued to the founder-scientists and initial investors -- so that the VC firm could buy the appropriate amount of a separate class of convertible preferred shares to reflect their investment.

The idea was to deliver chemotherapy drugs in "bubbles" of lipid-based artificial cell membranes with the monoclonal antibody attached, such that the antibody would only attach to cancer cells where the chemo could be delivered without harming other tissue. As far as I know, success with this technology still has not been achieved. Nevertheless it's a fascinating technology and if it does work out, it could have a transformative effect on cancer treatment.

For the VC firm, though, it's just one bet of many. I was amazed to learn later that the firms that really make a killing are the ones that do the mezzanine financing, the investment banks. With a promising start up, they offer yet more financing (sometimes subordinating the VC) in the hopes of demonstrating something marketable, whereupon the thing goes public and all those previously worthless shares become worth millions or billions.

[varkam]

20. Sorry, it's just that I'm not used to seeing a HR post...

without at least a few insults sprinkled throughout. If you're trying to change up the game a little bit, then good for you - I don't mean to sabotage your efforts.

And FWIW, that all sounds very interesting but it went right over my head.

[HamdenRice]

27. Maybe you're seeing insults

where there aren't any -- but some people feel insulted when their views are challenged.

[trotsky]

28. Challenging people's views doesn't get your posts deleted.

Insulting them does.

[HamdenRice]

29. And what about that

jerk-off smilie you have all adopted. Is that considered an insult or a challenging thesis?

[trotsky]

30. Don't change the subject.

Your past behavior has invited a certain attitude toward your posts, since you have seemed far more interested in insulting others and making strawmen of their true positions. You've tainted the well, so to speak, and made it much harder for yourself to be taken seriously.

[HamdenRice]

31. It's not changing the subject at all

I'll state it expressly. I don't insult people who don't insult me. You often insult me. Now you have a little game of posting a meaningless, crude, obscene sexual gesture smilie in response to my posts.

For you to lecture about civility is utterly absurd.

[trotsky]

32. HR, you jumped right into this group (and in other forums)

by blatantly insulting people. Some have adopted the jerkoff smiley because they're tired of your shenanigans. I am not interested in playing a game of "but maw, HE started it" with you because the history is clear. YOU got mad with certain people in 9/11, and followed them elsewhere to harass and insult. Others have made the mistake of engaging you, only to be insulted themselves. (Something I know all too well.) Many have now given up and have the good sense to not even try anymore - I'm one of the foolish ones who thinks that maybe, deep down, there is still hope for you. Slowly, however, you are proving me wrong. I think the worst part is, you display the exact same behavior that you are criticizing in others. You are rigid, unyielding, and judgmental in your thinking (some might label that fundamentalist) and bash people who don't live up to what (in your opinion) it means to be a skeptic.

I think you have the potential and intelligence to contribute a lot, but your behavior says otherwise. If you think you're better than the rest, then rise above the fray. Don't insult. Don't demean or label. You might just find people warming up to you.

[HamdenRice]

33. You have completely invented your own version of this history, no?

Everyone sees history from their own perspective but no one can simply make it up willy-nilly and retain their credibility. I've been on DU for years, on many forums, including the 9/11 Forum, but mostly in GD.

You seem to believe that certain groups are not open to all DUers who have the same interests. You are mistaken, and the sooner you get over it, the happier and more stress free your time on DU will be for you. You seem to think that not all atheists can participate in the A/A Group, that only certain skeptics can participate in the Skeptics Group, and that it is your duty to scrub certain discussions from the R/T Forum.

To that end, you insult anyone who you seem to think "doesn't belong there" and if you are insulted back, pretend that the other person started the insults. The current threads are a perfect example. I have ceased playing the insult game, but you seem not to have noticed. Who is insulting whom, really? Take a good look and get back to me.

The proof of your inability to let go, is your refusal to accept my proposal that we just ignore each other. If you find interacting with me insulting, then don't interact with me. I would gladly not interact with you. Why can't you do the same?

You simply need to stop trying to "police" participation in various forums and you will be amazed at how much happier you will be.

[trotsky]

34. And it continues.

I hold out the olive branch, and you shit all over it. *sigh*

BTW, what exactly were you trying to do in R/T, screaming down all the "fundamentalists" if not "policing" participation in THAT forum?

[HamdenRice]

35. If you want to offer an olive branch

don't start off with made up history. That's like saying, "even though you beat your wife, we can be friends." Sorry, but I think it's a lost cause as long as you are jousting with someone in your imagination rather than with me.

If you really want to offer an olive branch, let's ignore each other's posts completely. That way, I can have fruitful discussions with others without having to constantly "protect the rear" against jerkoff smilies, false accusations and insults.

Try it, you'll have a much better DU experience.

[trotsky]

36. Go ahead and ignore me.

You keep threatening, but you never do. And please, take your own advice and stop trying to "police" forums.

[HamdenRice]

37. Did you read the part about

protecting the rear guard?

[trotsky]

38. Trust me, I have no interest in your rear.

But I'm not going to let your false statements go unchallenged. You still have yet to provide ANY evidence supporting the claims you've made about "Skeptics" in this and other threads. Why should your false maligning of people go uncontested?

[cosmik debris]

39. He wants to make you dance to his tune

He insists on making the rules.

You MUST agree to ignore him to acknowledge that he is in control.

And it really pisses him off when he doesn't get to be in control.

:rofl:

It seems like I recall something about how "bargaining" is one of the stages of grief. He must really be suffering!

[trotsky]

40. Nail on the head, cosmik.

It's all about control. With a health dose of projection - accusing others of "policing" forums. :rofl:

[cosmik debris]

41. And accusing others of being uncivil

When he sets the standard for uncivil.

He might as well say that his shit doesn't stink, but yours does!

(I'm still hung up on my punch bowl analogy)

[TZ]

54. Yes. Thats exactly what he is doing

Attempting to make this group what he thinks it should be..same as he did in R/T.
Next he will be proposing a new forum for REAL skeptics...:eyes:

[varkam]

55. That's right, because we're all just fundamentalist athiests here...oops, I mean skeptics.

:rofl:

[varkam]

43. There's the HR we know and love. eom

[TZ]

22. I believe thats an outdated technology

Monoclonals are now being infused directly into the blood stream..As they are antibodies (designer) they aren't "chemotherapy" per se, but attack targets (cell receptors) directly. Its technically called cancer immunogenics and its becoming a HUGE field. My company only does immunological research..monoclonal antibodies and vaccines--and this is far from a start up.

[Random_Australian]

24. Yeah, the chemo bubbles idea is still going, but not like that any more.

Well, specifically it's not chemo anymore, in terms of generally making drugs more targetable, people are trying to make cages that can contain a wide variety of things, yet break down under certain given conditions. (eg heat, pH, whatever) It's quite difficult to make things that can contain the wide variety of sizes, polarities et cetera that medicines are, but progress looks interesting.

[HamdenRice]

42. The thing that was so cool about the idea ...

which also is used in theories about the origins of life, is that certain lipids self-organize into bubbles that are very similar to cell membranes. If you could cause that to happen in a chemo bath you would have bubbles of toxic chemo. Wash away the chemo chemicals outside the membranes, and you have, as you say, the chemo in cages.

Tough part is attaching an antibody, and then getting the bubble to burst when the antibody attaches to the antigen on the cell membrane of the cancer cell.

But the idea was almost like building some kind of immune cell in the laboratory.

[Random_Australian]

47. Hah, it would also be great if people worked out the origin of life when

working with cancers. "Uh, guys, it's looks like we're just big evolved cancers....." would NOT go down well with certain people, making it all the funnier.

But yeah, I think that's the principle reason why the new chem cages are to be able to have quite a few different things inside and decompose from temperature or pH rather than when an antibody attaches.

[Tumbulu]

49. Can you tell me more about the mosquito/malaria vaccine?

It sounds so wonderful. How close are they to testing it?

[TZ]

52. It had just gone into Phase One trials when I was working on it

However, I just found a paper which says they halted the study due to adverse effects on the patients (boo)
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0002636

Here's a bit more about the research onto it..
http://www.malariajournal.com/content/6/1/107

thanks for asking. Its nice to actually be asked for info., its definitely fascinating research..:)

[Tumbulu]

56. Wow- thank you so much!

What an exciting approach- I hope that the problems can be sorted out.

[jberryhill]

51. Sue...

Can you stop dragging your pets into the Skeptic's forum.

We're not keeping them, even if they did follow you home.

[TZ]

53. ...

If I knew how to get rid of them I would..Its not like I post much outside the lounge or here anymore...:banghead: