The conspiracy nuts' reactions to the nationalization of Fannie and Freddy are ridiculous.

[Odin2005]

HamdenRice gives good long arguments and explainations and how do other DUers post? It's "OMG it's a Neo-Con conspiracy to blah blab blah blah SHOCK DOCTRINE blah blah blah".

:eyes: :crazy: :eyes: :crazy: :eyes: :crazy: :eyes:

[realisticphish]

1. i grow weary of the reactionary position

anything that happens ever is a republican plot!!! there are no good people who are also republicans, or even conservatives; they are all extremist, anti gay, anti intellectual gun toting hicks who hate black people.


It gets tiring.

[lizerdbits]

2. WHY DO YOU HATE GAYS AND BLACK PEOPLE?!!!?!!!elevens

Just shut up and go clean your guns!

[HamdenRice]

3. Thanks for the kind words. What bothers me even more

is the anti-Federal Reserve gold bugs. I can understand why people might think this is a neo con plot or typical Bush looting because that's what this administration is known for. It's consistent with what they've done before. It's hard to grasp the idea of an area that is too important to the financial powers to let the Bush people loot and screw around.

But what I really can't understand is the anti Federal Reserve crowd who believe we need a gold standard and showed up as usual in that thread. Every progressive movement from the age of Alexander Hamilton, through the era of the Grange Movement, to the Progressive era fought against the gold standard. It was finally gotten rid of by Congressional Democrats and the system was brought to full fruition by FDR.

How they can think a gold standard is progressive is beyond me, as is the just plain nutty rhetoric of the Fed being private and of money having "nothing backing it."

Most of all, I'd like to see how a few hundred billion dollars of US owned gold can be somehow made to be the total worth of $30 trillion or more worth of goods and services.

[Orrex]

4. Well, I'll say this

It's a darned good thing that gold is only ever used for currency and the backing of currency. It would be a shame if it were used for such frivolous purposes as, say, jewelry or electronics.

Those gold standard bearers are among the nuttiest of the nutty, IMO.

[realisticphish]

6. yeah

because instead of backing money with useless paper, we back it with gold! which apparently has some intrinsic value, and isn't at all based on the whim of the world market!

[WoodrowFan]

7. yeah, because

yeah, because the economy was so much more stable when we were on the gold standard. it was so GOOD for the working class! :eyes:

[Odin2005]

5. Tin-foil-types are predisposed for beleiving Libertarian crackpottery.

The Gold Bugs tend to be Austrian School crazies that are against any government management of the money supply.

[WoodrowFan]

8. Oddly

And, oddly, Air America carries "BUY GOLD" ads. ugh.

[enki23]

9. Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world,...

"...supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."

[LeftishBrit]

10. I find it absolutely amazing that there would be 'gold standard' advocates

on a 21st century progressive board.

The gold standard, as I've always understood, is/was advocated by those who favour laissez-faire capitalism, oppose all or most government economic intervention, and consider inflation to be invariably worse than unemployment. Progressives were starting to oppose it in the late 19th and early 20th century; and most countries got rid of it in the 1930s, to enable intervention in the Great Depression. Though there was some sort of 'international gold standard' for a while after that, no one sane for the last 50 or 60 years or so has seriously suggested returning to it in any individual country.

At least that's the way I've always understood it. I would automatically assume that anyone who in 2008 favours a return to the gold standard must be *really* loony-right!

[WoodrowFan]

11. but Ron Paul

but "Dr" Paul opposes the war, so he must be right about the gold standard!

[TZ]

12. I have a coworker who isn't actually a loony right winger

but distrusts the Fed and although I don't discuss economics (not a favorite topic) is a big fan of Ron Paul so I think probably believes this. Go figure.

[HamdenRice]

13. Distrust of the Fed leads to an over-reaction

Those of us of a certain age have a healthy distrust of the Fed -- or more precisely what the Fed can do when under biased or ideological leadership. Paul Volker ruined the economy to get what was already a declining inflation problem under control, and he helped bring down Jimmy Carter.

Greenspan was more benign, but ultimately reckless. Bernanke, miraculously seems to be the right guy for the times -- both ideologically pragmatic and an academic who specialized in studying how to prevent financial panics!

The fact that a bad guy like Volker can do damage as head of the Fed should not be confused (as many do) with fear of the Fed, and certainly shouldn't lead anyone to the conclusion that on economics Ron Paul is anything other than a raving loon.

Perhaps the most frustrating thing about the Fed is that its charter says its main goal should be full employment, and secondarily control of inflation, but under Volker and Greenspan the emphasis was almost entirely on controlling inflation, which led to growth that was often more sluggish than it needed to be.

[TransitJohn]

14. yeah, the gold bugs bother me too.

What we really need to cut out the Federal Reserve is to get Congress to issue greenbacks and retire Federal Reserve notes on a one to one basis. :grin: