Children as Speakers of the Truth

[Orrex]

One of the oft-encountered bits of woo-thinking that really bugs me is the assumption that children are somehow more "pure" in their perceptions and are therefore able to impart objective, undiluted truth.

I used to work with a woman said that her three daughters saw their grandfather sitting on a couch in the basement, though he'd died years before the were born.

"How do you know it was your father?" I asked my coworker.

"They said he had glasses and a moustache," came her reply.

Great. So her basement is haunted by Groucho Marx. But my coworker--no dummy, I assure you--believed her daughters' account because
1. They couldn't know what he looked like.
2. They wouldn't lie about it.
3. Their stories were identical.

I invite the cautious reader to find the flaw(s) in her thinking...


Anyway, the purpose of that rant is to set up the following tale: This evening my wife recounted for me the story our 4.5 year old told her about his day at school. Two boys pulled on his hands, he said, and they pulled so hard that both hands came off. He went to the hospital, and after that to his pediatrician (to whom he referred by name) and got his hands put back on. Thankfullly he's okay now, and he can go to school tomorrow. He just won't play with those two boys, he says.


Yes indeed. Children are fonts of unembellished truth.

[LeftyMom]

1. My son came home one day and seemed very upset.

I asked what was wrong, and he tearfully explained that a family friend (who was barely an adult, let alone old, and not at all ill that I knew of) was very sick, in the hospital and was probably going to die. It seemed strange to me that the kid's dad hadn't mentioned our babysitter being on death's door, so I called him up and asked what was going on. Needless to say, it was the first he'd heard of it. And no, it wasn't some sort of special child woo either, I just saw the guy this afternoon and he appeared to be alive and well.

Kids sometimes have a- how can I put this- unique relationship with reality. Especially when their fantasies get encouraging reactions from adults.

[onager]

2. Oh yes, and "children never lie."

What a pant-load. I was once a child and I remember lying frequently. Sometimes daily, for long stretches if necessary.

The idea is sort of funny when woos are making their usual BS claims about the Purity Of Childhood. (Jebus! Did any of these people ever "play doctor?")

But not so funny when the legal system takes that attitude, as in the horrendous "Satanic Panic" episodes of the 1980s.

Because I lived in Los Angeles at the time, the McMartin case was especially horrifying. Those little Bastions Of Unblemished Truth were saying they went to a day-care center in the morning; got on airplanes and flew to Mexico; and were back at the center when the parents came to pick them up in the afternoon.

The school itself was located on a fairly busy street, with uncurtained windows so anyone walking by could look in, IIRC.

But...aha! What about those secret tunnels the children described? Sure enough, the authorities actually dug up the ground under the day-care center looking for non-existent tunnels. And found...nothing.

In the end, the whole case hinged on one sadly deluded woman who died of alcoholism. Oh, and that crackpot "abuse expert" who had zero education or training in the field. But who WAS conveniently sleeping with a local TV newsreader.

I'm not sure if we will ever know how many innocent lives were destroyed by that nonsense. But they were only adult lives, so I guess it's OK.

[dropkickpa]

3. Holy carp

Dropkid is the queen of lies! For no reason at all, she'll make shit up. I can understand when it's to cover up a transgression, but usually it's just the most mundane unimportant shit. She does it because she can. I blame it on her being an Adamantium child, they're speshul yaknow?

[Orrex]

4. Careful--she has those claws and that super-fact healing power

Don't mess with Adamantium Children, bub!

[salvorhardin]

6. Jedi knights

My partner's 9.5 year old son has a friend who makes up the most incredible stories. For a while he had my partner's kid believing he had spent his summer in Jedi training and was going to teach him how to be a Jedi too. There's actually been an unending stream of incredible stuff this kid has made up. On the other hand, this kid is also afraid of bananas and the Happy Birthday song (literally afraid -- he'll break out screaming and crying at the sight or sound of either one) so we're not surprised.

[dropkickpa]

8. That's awesome!

[moggie]

9. The banana thing I can understand

They're the atheist's worst nightmare, after all. But the happy birthday thing: was he frightened by a clown at a party? Perhaps a clown with a banana, even?

[LeftishBrit]

5. Kids can be pretty 'imaginative' and not always above pulling the legs of grownups

Not long ago, I was informed by a wide-eyed 6-year-old at a school I was visiting: "Our teacher isn't here. She's gone to the moon in a rocket!"

[dropkickpa]

7. This is the type of crap Dropkid does

Pointless, yes. Silly, almost always. She loves to try to get people going. Okay, she comes by it honestly, because my entire family had her convinced for over a year that alligators lived in the Allegheny River (now she thinks there's sharks, we really are horrible people).

[realisticphish]

10. from what i've read

children just have a poor grasp of the difference between fantasy and reality. I remember convincing myself that weird shit really happened, when I know that it didn't

[Orrex]

11. I'm sure that's true about kids, but there's more to it, too.

In my son's case, he's pretty well aware of when he's making something up, because when we ask (gently) if such-and-such really happened, he'll say something like "well, I was just thinking about it."

I don't doubt that there are times when kids are unable to distinguish fantasy from reality, and I think that kids' willingness to make up a story just makes the issue more complex!

In any case, only a fool would take as definitive a child's testimony about the supernatural, no matter how creepy the story!

[dropkickpa]

12. My kid just lies a lot

She's heard the boy who cried wolf story about 10,000 times. She's a little shit sometimes.

[moggie]

13. Sounds like a future politician

[dropkickpa]

14. She's gonna rule the world!

[JitterbugPerfume]

15. when my identical twin grandsons were five

they tried to switch identities on me. I never have trusted those little shits!