"No rational explanation"

[realisticphish]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4169706

Ok, so this story was linked to a post. This has nothing to do with what the OP said, or anything, but the wording in the article.

"Almost a miracle," "no rational explanation" for pages from a diary surviving the Columbia explosion. I really hate how anything improbable seems to be license for God, or magic, or karma making it happen. You know what would have been a miracle? The astronauts surviving. But no, instead we get some burned pages from a diary. Thanks God!

[lizerdbits]

1. God and miracles- for people who don't want to think about physics

Well I didn't like physics class much and don't really want to think about it, but it makes for a far more likely explanation than magic.

So I'm thinking that in the explosion the force blew it away from the giant ball of flames and that's how it survived. But hey, I'm not a physicist so I should just thank god that it survived instead of all those people. I'm sure god's actions are very comforting to the astronaut's families. :eyes:

[Warpy]

2. Yes, it's exactly the same phenomenon that caused a snowstorm

of paper blown out of the WTC when those planes hit.

[Orrex]

3. Excuse me. It was a tactical nuke.

And therefore all the more miraculous that the snowstorm of paper surivived.

[trotsky]

5. Idiot. Remote-control plane.

Oh wait. Those were holograms of planes, weren't they?

[Warpy]

7. No, you've got it all wrong!

When the planes crashed into the building, they triggered thermite bombs that had been placed within the steel supports on that floor when the building went up 28 years earlier!

That paper was also in the ventilation system and rigged to blow out of the building to throw us off the trail!

Sheesh, you pointy headed science types don't know anything!

[semillama]

16. Here's your 9-11 truth book

http://www.marriedtothesea.com

[Q3JR4]

29. But, but, but...

physics is haarrd!

Q3JR4.
Says the man who has a B.S. in physics... :P

[Orrex]

4. I know a guy who fell off a roof (drunk) and landed flat on his back, more or less without a scratch

A fall of about 35 feet. Everyone who talked about it called it a miracle, especially since he was getting married a few days later. Whatever.

After hearing a description of the event from the drunken groom and from several friends who were there, I'd guess the odds of such a fall to be about 1 in 30.


Miraculous indeed.

[trotsky]

6. The good old argument from personal incredulity.

Gotta love it.

[CanSocDem]

8. A "diary" would....

... have little public value so calling it a "miracle" seems a stretch.

The 'public' value, however, of an intact passport surviving the same fiery threat, has immeasurable and enduring value so it is either:

1. Bogus

2. good government

or

3. a miracle

Since that 'passport' has given your government an excuse to pursue its' goals with impunity, it would seem the answer is #2.

.

[TZ]

9. uh okay

So its only a "miracle" if its a document that supports conspiracy theories...riiiight but if its just personal items its not...
Okay that makes the its a miracle crowd look positively rational! OMG-the US government MADE the Shuttle blow up just to incinerate some documents!...riiiiiight.....:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :rofl:


(hint: you do realize the more stuff like this you post the sillier you look, right? The only thing I can think of is a quote from Star Trek IV.."Too much LDS..."):rofl:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TZ]

11. HAH!

Great comeback dude! Whats next..I'm rubber and you are glue?
Seriously that "LDS" does damage to ones neurons obviously....:rofl:
Keep it coming..The Sunday morning comedy hour in the Skeptics Lounge.....:*

[Dr. Strange]

18. You...you... Minderass!

That's right, you heard me.

:smoke:

[cosmik debris]

12. Has anyone ever explained to you the concept of logical fallacy?

So many of your posts are perfect examples of logical fallacies that it would appear that you have never even heard of the concept of logical fallacy.

For example your post is a perfect example of the "false choice" fallacy. Because it is so obviously false, I have to wonder if you even know the difference between true and false.

[CanSocDem]

13. Actually.....

...it is you that is having trouble following the discussion. It isn't surprising that you all feel that "logic" is on your side, but since you're all so intelligent, I thought you would also be familiar with literary devices such as the metaphor and irony.


"Because it is so obviously false...."


Hello!!:applause:

[cosmik debris]

14. No, it's just bad logic. n/t

[Orrex]

20. What's funny is that we're not "all so intelligent"

I mean, Trotsky can barely tie his shoes, and Turtlensue can't operate her refrigerator without help. And it takes me three tries to get my pants on the right way.

But for bog's sake, you don't need to be "all so intelligent" to spot a logical fallacy. Once you know how to recognize them, they're as easy to spot as a turd in the punchbowl. And about as palatable.

[CanSocDem]

26. Yes...that is funny.

Funny AND true. But....that point was really the least of my post. My first post was an ironic parody, not a term paper for a philosophy class. If I wanted to discuss the finer points of logic, I would go to a REAL institution of higher learning.

However, if the only point of replying to my posts(like the first 2) is to ridicule my beliefs then I won't waste so much time trying to express my sense of humour. And, since I've had a threatening letter from a 'mod', I have to believe that 'humour' is a disruption to this forum.

And my heartiest regards to your mom. Ask her to show you again, how to put your pants on.

:hippie:

.

[YankeyMCC]

15. Just so happens today's Atheist quote of the day seems applicable here:

To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy.
- David Brooks

[Deep13]

17. Less that absolutely complete destruction = miracle.

Nothing going wrong = ordinary.

[realisticphish]

19. the old

"one person saved out of a hundred from being murdered by a terrorist, and they were "protected by God," who apparently couldn't give two shits about the other 99 people" routine

[Orrex]

21. A few years back a missionary's plane was shot down in South America, I believe

I'm thinking Peru but could be wrong. Anyway, her surviving family was interviewed on every news outlet available, because nothing says "We're suffering terrible grief" more sincerely than jumping onto national television to beat your breast.

The father of the slain missionary said something like the following:
"We take comfort knowing that God protected her until it was time to call her home."

What the fuck does that mean? "He didn't kill her until he did kill her," perhaps?


I am endlessly baffled by the lengths to which believers will go to shoehorn reality into their belief framework. I mean, I don't disparage anyone's grief or their expressions of it, except when they say something totally nonsensical and totally consistent with the nonsensical stuff they say every day. That is, if the craziness expressed while in mourning is indistinguishable from the craziness expressed at any other time, then it's not grief-driven craziness; it's the default mindset.

[onager]

22. Reminds me of this old joke...

Once there was a man who was an extremely devout Christian. He believed firmly in the power of prayer.

If something bad happened, he prayed for help. If something good happened, he prayed in thanks.

If he had to make a choice, he prayed for guidance. He prayed on behalf of his friends, his relatives, and people he met on the Internet.

Nevertheless, he had problems. He worked like a dog, yet he never had quite enough money to pay the bills and was deeply in debt. His wife was irritable and sickly and had been making him sleep on the couch since the late eighties. His college-age daughter was flunking half her classes and only called home when she wanted money, and his high school age son was flunking all his classes and spent most of his time in his room smoking things that smelled odd.

One day the Christian got down on his knees and poured his heart out. "Oh Lord, You know that I'm devoted to You. I make time every single day for prayer. Yet my financial life's a mess, my marriage is a mess, my kids are a mess.

My next-door neighbor is an atheist, and he has a great job, a lovely, devoted wife, and a daughter who's going to be class valdictorian. What's the deal?"

And God, with a voice like thunder from the sky, said: "He doesn't bother me all the time."

[realisticphish]

24. hahaha nt

[TZ]

23. hmm. Was it a "miracle" then

That those soccer players survived by cannibalizing dead passengers on that flight that went down in the Andes in the 1970's (chronicled in ALIVE!)? I would like to hear THIS explanation. The few that survived were sinners made to suffer by their actions?

[realisticphish]

25. god protected them

until it was time for them to be eaten by starving sinners

[FM Arouet666]

27. God works in mysterious ways.

People starving, dying, suffering and he or his mum just appear in a window pane or on a cheese sandwich. Tornado wipes out a town but one house is saved. A miracle, guess god hates the neighbors. I really can not understand why people believe.


Sarah Silverman says it best......... Jesus is magic...... Thanks for saving the shuttle, er the lives of the crew, no, er er, thanks for the burned paper. What a guy, give me a J.... give me a E...... :evilgrin:

[onager]

28. "NRE" perfectly explained, for ONCE, in a movie...

As usual, we have several good rational explanations for this event. But everybody wants to concentrate on the miraculous explanation (also as usual).

IMO, this human tendency was illustrated perfectly in the 1999 movie The Messenger, with Milla Jovovich playing Joan of Arc.

While Joan sits in prison awaiting execution, she thinks back to how she "miraculously" found a sword in a field. In her mind, the sword dropped right out of Heaven, directly from God, and into her hands.

Then a character playing her Conscience (and all of us skeptics) appears. He says there are any number of perfectly rational ways that sword got into the field. We see quick-cut scenes of the sword falling off a knight's horse, being dropped and lost during a battle, etc.

The Conscience then tells her she chose the most irrational and miraculous explanation of finding the sword--because she WANTED to. Perfect.

That part was great, but the rest of the movie was not. Fifteenth-century characters spouting modern slang always irritate me. But the biggest goof was casting Dustin Hoffman as her Conscience. One of the most instantly recognizable faces and voices in the world, so weirdly out of context in this part that he mostly provides unintentional humor.