Guitar Purchase Guidance

[MazeRat7]

Guitarists... I am looking to purchase my first electric guitar. I learned on acoustic, but need an electric to record some rhythm sections for my latest batch of tunes. I have always liked the sound of dual humbucking pickups - goes well with the prod rock style stuff I compose.

Anyway, I have been looking at SG's but one of my guitar buddies (a Strat guy) is telling me that SG's pull out of turn real easily due to the minimal attachment of the neck to the body. If this is true, what would be a good second choice that would give an SG / Les Paul type sound.

While I have no problem dropping 3k on a keyboard but on a guitar as a second instrument that is totally out of the question. I would like to keep this under $900 or so if that is possible.

Recommendations ?

Thanks in advance,

MZr7

[toddzilla]

1. used or new?

you need to provide much more information like:

type of pickups?

finished/unfinished neck

bolt on or set-neck

used or new?

fixed bridge or tremelo?

country, metal, blues, jazz? everything?



it's hard to go wrong with a used american strat (just don't get a highway 1 model)

gibsons are overrated and overpriced.

i'm a huge fan of hamer usa guitars, and they can be had cheap secondhand because they are a little bit unknown.

[MazeRat7]

2. More Details

Pickup Type: Dual Humbucker pickups

Intended Use: Prog Rock (thick rhythm, minimal lead)

Neck Specifics: Dont really care - however finished and set would be ideal

New / Used : Don't care so long as the fret board is good, the neck is true, and the electronics are clean.

Fixed bridge

I will do some research on the hamer usa guitars.

Thanks,

MZr7

[toddzilla]

3. a few

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33042&item=7313883216&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38086&item=7313201010&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33042&item=7313336226&rd=1

[MazeRat7]

4. Thanks ! I really like that Studio Custom. Seems to fit the bill....

Hopefully I can make it down to one of our music stores and give one a try before making up my mind.

Thanks again.

MZr7

[leftofthedial]

22. I've worked with a few guitarists who played Hamers

They all sounded great, looked great, played great, worked great . . .

and all the guitar players sold them and now play Strats (except one guy who plays a PRS).

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[banjosareunderrated]

5. I would like to, respectfully, disagree about Gibsons

They may be overpriced, that's debatable, but they are not overrated.

In fact, I would argue that it is the Fenders that are overrated.

A bolt-on neck provides nowhere near the stability of glue, which most Gibson's use to attach the neck to the body, contrary to Fender. As evidence, consider why headstocks are glued to the neck rather than bolted-on. The major reason, discounting aesthetics, is because the glue provides a stronger bond than even the wood molecules hold to each other. As an example, on an acoustic guitar there is approximately 250lbs. of pressure at each end , both daring the other to break. Carving the entire neck and headstock out of one piece of wood and connecting that to a one-piece body would be an exercise in futility because the wood would just give out. Glue is a stronger bond that places less stress on the wood it joins.

As example, 99% of all headstock breaks (that I've seen as a one time four-year warranty manger for Washburn) leave the wood of the neck/headstock splintered. Again, splintered. That's because when a guitar is dropped on its head, the wood breaks before the wood-glue-wood bond does. As a matter of fact, the hardest part of my of my one time job was explaining to people that wood molecules do not randomly give out, they require outside force. In other words, if your guitar has splinters, it's not because the manufacturer cheaped out on the type of wood, you dropped it. If you play, look at the headstock/neck joint right now. It's pretty solid, isn't it? That's because the glue-to wood bond is stronger than the wood-wood bond.

You don't have to be a physicist to understand that the stronger the bond between pieces of an instrument, the greater the resonance. Detractors say that bolt-ons provide even more resonance than glue because the wood pieces touch each other but that's hogwash. It's similar to computer processors and heatsinks. The surface of the bottom of the neck and the surface of the body of the guitar may appear smooth to the naked eye, but under microscope, you can see that they're not. Glue, like Arctic Silver for CPU's, fills in those microscopic spaces and ensures a more complete transfer of sound waves

Fender fails in all tests of merit except for Kitsch charm. They are the most sought after vintage instruments not because of their inherent tonal qualities, but rather because the musicians that we all admire played them. Hendrix, Clapton,---Why? Because they were cheap and disposable.



Again, respectfully to toddzilla, it's actually very easy to go wrong with any fender, not hard, and your best bet for quality is to get a Gibson.



on edit, that's not to say bolt-ons can't sound good. A lot of musicians have made beautiful music on bolt-on guitars but that's because they were great players. Sound is only half hardware.

[dbt]

6. Hello, banjosareunderrated!

Your username resonates with me (all puns fully intended) and I am SO glad to know that there are now TWO of us here! I have been using a Deering Crossfire onstage for the last two years and took up the banjo in 1972.

As to electric guitars, I am firmly in the Gibson camp since 1966 and I believe P-90 pickups are the Holy Grail of Tone. I just wanted to say hello before the Fender/Gibson war heats up!

PS: Earl Scruggs is God.

[banjosareunderrated]

11. another "earl scruggs is god" believer!

I want that as a bumper sticker soooo bad. Have you checked out www.earlscruggs.com? It's done really well, imho.

the claw is underrated. :)

[one_true_leroy]

19. that's at least three of us...

five fingers, five strings

[toddzilla]

8. for the money they are highly overrated

I hate to be a stickler, but theres about a million other things that go into guitar construction other than whether the neck is glued on or bolted on. You mention the glued neck joint as being stronger and more resonant. A gibson guitar is a factory guitar that is priced at a custom shop level. They are guilty of riding on their name even more so than fender is. the amount of glue that they use to secure the neck is considerably more than many smaller, but equally priced lines. Gibsons and les pauls used to be marginally more expensive than a strat until the market took off during the GNR hype in the late 80's, i've played tons of them, and they are muddy, bottom heavy and horribly inconsistent when it comes to quality control. you can buy a korean knock off that is glued in for 400 bucks, does that make it a better instrument than a bolt-on american tele or strat? what about a tom anderson?


So, i seriously disagree that somehow gibson has the edge on quality, as i've seen, played, and compared many, many instruments, and gibsons are always all over the map as far as quality is concerned. they are exactly the same as a fender in the sense that they are riding on their name and name alone, you could play ten brands of lesser-known guitars that will annihilate the "gibson sound" with more clarity, balance, and playability.

[banjosareunderrated]

10. lol, i was a little buzzed last night...

but my paragraph(s) made sense in my head! lol. Now, well, not so much.

I thought I talked about body materials, finish process, fingerboards--- a whole host of stuff, but, no, my drunk ass spent 3 paragraphs on bolt ons.

:toast:


Instead of trying to explain, i'll just agree to disagree and write note to self:

don't post after the bar. don't post after the bar.

:)

[toddzilla]

13. hehe

no worries..

i just think gibsons suck.. lol

[banjosareunderrated]

14. thanks for not tearing me a new one

cuz you sure could've done it after that rambling, incoherent, shite.

:hi:

Gibsons sure aren't as good as Heartfields though, i'll give you that.

[XNASA]

7. My first consideration would be the neck and scale.

Fenders have a little longer scale than Gibson-style type guitars.

The first thing I check, whenever I pick up a guitar is the fretwork. I run my finger down the outside of the neck. I don't want to feel any burrs, or roughness. I like it to be nice and smooth. If you're paying over $500 for a guitar, this is generally not a problem.

Then I play it unplugged and see if it sounds good and to feel how it plays. Generally, if it sounds good and doesn't buzz, etc when unplugged then it will sound OK plugged in. Then plug it in and see if you like it. I've been playing over 30 years and I still haven't found a guitar I didn't like when it was plugged in, as long as it stays in tune, etc. I love them all. Except Strats. More on that later.

Electronics? Where to start. Single coils (Fenders) are more responsive but the also have more noise. Humbuckers (Gibsons) sound nice and warm and thick, but are less responsive.

My personal choice if I had $900 to spend on guitar. Something like a Schecter PT (Pete Townshend) model. It's a Telecaster style guitar with humbuckers. I really like Telecasters. But I like the ones that have a humbucker in the bridge position which is not the standard set-up, but is available. I also really like Schecter's. A high quality moderately priced guitar. My kid's got one and it just rocks. We've also got a Tele, an SG and a Hamer Studio in the house, along with a Yamaha acoustic/electric and a couple of other acoustics and a new Ibanez bass. So we have a few different flavors to choose from.

I don't like Strats. I don't hate them, but I just don't dig 'em. They're ubiquitous and my least favorite players all use Strats. When you have a Strat, it's like owning a Honda Accord. Everybody's got one.

[opiate69]

9. I've owned several SGs over the years, and

never had any problems with them going out of tune. currently, I'm playng an SG Special, which has 2 490 humbuckers, and sounds like heaven. You can find these for around $800. I'm constantly getting compliments on my tone (I run it straight into a Mesa Boogie Mark III). Here's a link to Gibson's specs page.http://www.gibson.com/products/gibson/sg/SGSpecial.html
And Musicians Friends page

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/517222/

[Pepperbelly]

12. This is quite nice and in the price range...

$700.

http://www.music123.com/Gretsch-G5570-Elliot-Easton-i135499.music?t=1#tab

[bullimiami]

15. a strat guy whining how a gibson neck is attached?

maybe he should have a look at his beloved bolt on neck.

Im no fan of SGs. Speaking only of old ones, they were very inconsistant in their construction. There were good ones built as the top of the line models and they feel and play nothing like the cheaper ones. So just saying SG is pretty broad ranging.

I would go to the music stores, consignment shops and guitar shops and play everything that looks good to you and that might be within your budget, then make a decision.

[toddzilla]

16. am i the aforementioned strat guy?

?

[bullimiami]

17. i believe you are.

There are strats and there are strats, Plenty of inconsistancy there as well.

I will say Im not a big fender fan, I do love the old deluxe teles though with the body and neck binding and really wonderful workmanship.

[toddzilla]

18. i'm far from a "strat guy"..

i own an american strat, but i've modified it extensively to give me a wider range of tones. it's irreplacable only in that i've been playing it for 8+ years and it's a part of me, but i have other instruments that are much higher quality and tone. frankly i don't give two shits if a guitar is a bolt on or set neck, as long as it's made properly.

that being said, little wing just doesn't sound right on my hollow body..

[MazeRat7]

20. Well I made the purchase.....

Spent more than I wanted, but considering all the rumors about Gibson I figure I should by the flagship before prices go through the roof.

So, I ended up getting a 1960 Les Paul Classic (re-issue). She is dark cherry red with light peach-ish or rose (not sure the color) trim and all that goes with that model of course. (Inlays, dual humbuckings, etc)

Thanks for all the advice folks... now I have some playing to do. :)

MZr7

[RetroLounge]

21. "1960 Les Paul Classic "

Nice choice. Les Paul's are great guitars...

I've played many different guitars, but my LP Custom is the best one I've ever seen.

RL

[Swamp Rat]

23. When it comes to Gibson SGs, don't pay attention to the "strat guy."

:D

My 25 yr old SG still plays great! I also love the sound of the Gibson ES 335, especially for rhythm playing. For overall guitar sound, I prefer a nylon string, like a Rodrigo "Church Door" or a Giussani.

[MazeRat7]

24. Actually, I was just about to buy an SG ......

but alas, someone had bought the one I had my eye on. But Ray would have none of that as I was about to leave, and he pulled down a Les Paul Classic with basically the same color scheme and offed it to me at just over 50% off.

I could not refuse the offer.... so no I guess I didn't listen. *grin

MZr7

[SlavesandBulldozers]

25. wow how could you refuse that offer

nt