help setting up home studio...

[one_true_leroy]

i want to start recording this year, and i'm looking to set up a small 'studio' at home. i don't know the first thing about recording (except that you apparently sing into the big end of the mic!), but want something simple that still sounds good. i play mostly accoustic fingerpicking guitar and banjo, with electric thrown in for flavor.

here's what i envision, so if anyone has tweaks or caveats, please let me know.

the core would be a digital 8-track recorder. most of the ones i've looked at are 2-track record, so i'll have to address that with some mixing arrangement. i plan to 'port to computer for master/mixing.

physically, i imagine a four mic design... two close mics for guitar and vocal and the two mics for space. the two close mics would go to a PA, be mixed, and recorded from the line out. the space mics would be some distance from the PA, left and right, and mixed for ambiance. electric would go through an amp before the PA. i'm not sure if it would be best to record all four mics mixed to one input, or if i should divide it by pairs for two tracks.

what i'm shooting for is a clean sound, with some natural reverb, so i want the close mics to have an uncolored signal, but then the PA mics would have the signal colored by the PA system and have a little breathing space thrown in from the room ambiance. as stated, i know nuthin' but a few articles i've read, so all this may be impractical.

i haven't bought anything, yet, so i'm pretty flexible for equipment (within budgetary constraints, of course). i can't go overboard for toys, so i want a simple and clean, but nice sounding set-up, suitable for 'sketching' and for gig demos.

any help, experience, or advice would be appreciated. thank you!

[johnnie]

1. There's not much I can help you with on the stand alone recorders

I thought the one XNASA got is able to record 8 tracks simultaneously. I still use my PC for recording and that works fine for me.
Here is XNASA's thread on his recorder.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=256x1101

I wish I could help out more.

[Pepperbelly]

2. You need to make sure that you get good mics ...

Studio microphones. And why go through a PA? Every bit of additional cable the signal goes through increases signal loss from resistence.

I use one of these ...

http://www.music123.com/Marshall-Microphones-MXL-770-i148094.music

You need to make sure that your digital recorder has phantom power for a good mic. This is a very good 8 track at a very good price.

http://www.music123.com/Zoom-MRS802B-Eight-Track-Hard-Disk-Recorder-i100532.music

This is the one I use.

:D

[dbt]

3. What Pepperbelly says!

Be sure you get at least one great mic out of the four, preferably a large diaphragm condenser mic. Audition a tube mic and see what you think. After that, three Shure SM57's would do for just about anything you could throw at them. Heck, Tom Petty has even been known to use them for vocals.

Also, the lesser the amount of cable, the fewer the chances for signal degradation.

[one_true_leroy]

4. some stupid q's:

if i don't go through a PA, how do i hear my playing? (monitors? headphones?)

if i use a condenser mic + 2-3 dynamics, where should the condenser go... front and center for both vocal and guitar? near or far?

i thought about your comments... maybe just mount two of the mics in the corners (w/o PA) opposite me and run them straight into the recorder and moniter them from there?

thanks for your input!

[dbt]

5. Use the condenser for what you want to sound the "best."

This is your Big Gun; it'll work fine for anything except drums (and there are some models that are good for the skins, too). Anything that you want to sound "large," that's where you want your condenser. You can get vocals and guitar at the same time with it, but most folks mike them separately.

Near or far? Put on a pair of headphones and play or sing into the mic in question. Move back and forth, side to side as you do so. You will find a spot where your instrument sounds the best. It will be QUITE obvious!

SIDEBAR: Sir George Martin has a lovely book entitled "All You Need Is Ears." It's well worth the money.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. A Good Condenser On The Snare. . .

. . .is a wonderful idea. As long as, of course, the drummer is not wildly inaccurate and might hit the mike! It creates a very transparent and snapping snare sound that can be shaped after the fact with little loss of attack.

We use condensers for overheads and snare. Dynamics for everything else, and ues the high end condenser mike (vocal mike) to mike the guitar amp during rhythm tracks and sweetening parts.

Again, the sound the amp makes is the sound we get recorded because the mike is so transparent.

Pretty cool.
The Professor

[dbt]

7. Professor, how much to you have to 'pad' that snare mike?

Back in my day, they could be overloaded pretty easily.

[ProfessorGAC]

8. We Don't At All

We just don't put it that close to the snare. 5 or 6 inches is close enough, i think, but could probably put it as close as 2 inches without a problem.

You sure the mike overloaded, or was it the mixer overloading because the mike's signal was so hot! If that's the case, a little snap overload on a snare hit actually sounds cool. If creates an emphasis on that crack when the head is hit. Can't get carried away, but i like the drums recorded hot. Can always back down the signal in the mix, but can't get the "hot" after the fact!

I always want the final mix to sound "live". Not in terms of bleed and noise, but i want it to sound like it really sounds during the playing. I don't care about too many technical details. If it sounds better in the red, run it there!

Know what i mean?
The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

9. I ALWAYS use headphones.

Get some good ones that isolate you as much as possible. This is particularly important as you multi-track. Myself, I do all of the instruments and I always multi-track. If friends want to lay down a bit on my stuff, I just hook 'em up with a track.

Listen to what sounds best. Experiment. That is what's cool about learning to be the engineer, the producer and the performer.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. I Prefer Headphones Too, Pep

Until final mixdown i want everything as dry and isolated as possible. It just seems easier to get that with phones.

I've got an old pair of Pioneer Pro Series (i think they're about 25 years old) that still sound great, are comfortable as heck, and are amazingly transparent.

I could mixdown with them, but everytime i do that, the final mix seems a little bass heavy. Not bad but a bit. So, i use a set Yamaha reference monitors for that.
The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

11. I wish I'd included a good set of studio monitors for mixing.

I have little choice but to mix through headphones. I've been using one set ... audio-technia because they are very bright but now, as I think about it, that might be what causes my finishe product to sound a bit muddy. I might try mny next one using some isolating Samson phones that have a very full bottom. That might end up making the finished stereo track more clarity.

I was having a problem with my bass tracks. Of course, I like some occasional fancy bass work ... quick scales before chord changes or mini-runs, but when I mixed it where the bass line was apparent to a sophisticated listener, it muddied up the whole thing and you couldn't really hear guitar tone or vocal nuance.

I tried to remedy that by lowering the volume on the bass track and that was not satisfactory. It cleared everything up but the bass was merely a suggestion. Next, I tried taking the equalization's bass to like a minus 1 or 2 decibals and that was better but still not quite right. Maybe mixing it with phones with more bottom will solve it. :shrug:

[ProfessorGAC]

12. A Suggestion

You can get really good mixes if you just use decent stereo speakers. However, you need to do some ear tests.

Try a rough mix, just on cassette, on normal stereo speakers. When you're happy, take that tape and play in in the car. Then go to a friend and play them on a different set of speakers. You will hear the differences and then can compensate for what you need to hear through the coloration of your home speakers.

IOW, you might hear that on other speakers, the sound is a little boomy because your home speakers are a little light on bass. Or you might hear too prounounced a midrange because your home speakers are colored high and low and soft in the middle. Once you get used to the sound you're hearing in your head versus what your home speakers deliver, you'll get a pretty good overall mix that sounds good on everything.

Just a thought. I did this for years. BTW: So did George Martin before Abbey Road bought the first set of Soundfields.
The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

13. that's the part that's so fun ...

I've been playing for 40 years and enjoy it but this whole issue of putting what you hear in your head into a cd is a hoot. I just keep playing with it, trying this or that, trying to learn everything my machine can do and playing the sound stage.

:D

It is a blast.

Hell, I'm enjoying covers as much as my own stuff. Just got through with a medley ... the old Hank Williams song "Move it on over," and "Who do you love?" Fun, fun, fun!

[ProfessorGAC]

14. I Do The Same

Right now i'm working on a mini-album of guitar instrumentals. Each one is named after the artist it's attempting to evoke.

One track is called "Leonine" and it's in the style of Kottke. I use an open tuning of G on a Takamine.

Another is called "Friends Again" and it's an homage to Page on Zep II or III. It's in an open tuning in C7.

The two electric ones are "St. Charles" which is done as a nod to Carlos, but there's no latin percussion in the rhythm tracks. The other is called "Satchurated" and is a shredder tune tribute to Joe Satch.

With my still unformed ideas, i will have about 8 on the disk when i'm done. I'm having big fun.

At some point, i'm going to have my friend come over and do some sweetening work because he is a wonderful rhythm guitarist. (Plays lead really well too, but heck, it's my damned project.) But, i also want the tones he uses mixed in there, since our tones don't sound alike.

You're right. It's big fun. Being able to record CD quality music in your own rec room.
The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

15. You know, this whole home studio thing could cause some ...

odd things in the business. It's exciting. Without a huge investment, a musician ... all of us, I guess ... can make hi fidelity disks of whatever we want, can play through a half-million bucks worth of different amps and cabinets via decent modeling without having to buy or, for that matter, HAVE such a collection.

Amazing stuff and something's in the air with this. I think this could well be part of the key to music delivery in the future. I could, of course, be wrong. :D