Guitarists! Has anyone ever tried this?

[freethought]

Using a shim to raise the height of the neck on a bolt-on neck-to-body electric guitar? I am assuming Strats, Teles and other bolt-on designs.
I was in a music shop and overheard two guys talking about it, one was staff and the other was a customer. What was described was taking thin wood strips or sheets and cutting/shaping them to an exact size of the neck pocket on a guitar body. Drilling or punching holes to accommodate the mounting screws. Then placing the shim between the neck and the body and tightening the screws to securely mount the neck. It is supposed to raise the neck some small fraction of an inch to lower the action of the strings especially when one may have the truss rod adjusted as far as you feel safe doing so. One guy even said that some good quality playing cards may work in a pinch.
I chimed in at this point and asked the staff guy if he had ever actually done it to guitar of his own. He said no but then said he had seen the shops guitar tech (who was not there) do it a few times. Said it worked like a charm and did not affect tone at all.

Has anyone ever tried this or had it done to an instrument of their own? I might like to try this on one of my own instruments. I would just like to see if anyone else had tried this themselves or had a tech do it for them.

Thanx in advance!

[bullimiami]

1. proper truss rod adjustment gives you relief across the middle of the neck.

the high end of the neck typically is dressed to fall away a little toward the bridge.
the height adjustment would naturally be done at the bridge.
im not sure why you would need or want to shim the neck that way.

you certainly couldnt make up for any defect in the truss rod adjustment by shimming.

[freethought]

2. Perhaps you're correct

However on first hearing it It did seem to make some sense, if you can't lower the action by adjusting bridge saddles maybe you can raise the level of the neck slightly. I tend to like my action kinda low. I'm willing to sacrifice the sustain that some people like.

[ProfessorGAC]

3. While I Won't Argue With bullimiami's Points, Something Else. . .

. . .to consider is that necks are always perfect and the bolt on joint is always perfect.

For this reason, some times adjusted the truss rod is not the desirable option. The intonation of the guitar is impacted a little less by shimming. So, incremental changes in action can be done with shimming and unless you REALLY shim it up, the intonation will be unaffected.

This is particularly true on basses, but works the same on guitar. Just that truss rodding a guitar has less effect on current intonation than it does on bass.

One thing to try though: To heck with all that wood shimming and "fill the pocket" and all that nonsense. Some of the best shims for guitar work are available in your case, your pocket, or the store, right this moment. They're called PICKS! Extra thin or thin picks are terrific shims. They don't change in shape, the plastic won't deform or change in composition for a few hundred years, won't shrink or swell with temp or humidity, and except for nylon picks, they're incompressible.

I shimmed the neck on my Jazz bass. In my case, i just thought the neck angle was a little too severe. I didn't want to lower the saddles because i didn't want the strings getting any closer to the bridge pickup, but i did want to get the strings a little closer to the neck above the 12th fret. (When i play bass, i play a lot of middle register stuff.) So, i shimmed it with two extra thin Fender picks. Loosened the bolts just enough, dropped in one pick, tightened it up. Thought it could handle a 2nd. Repeated the process. Voila!

They've been in there for 5 years now.
The Professor

[bullimiami]

4. gac you bring up a whole other point.

shimming to change the neck angle.

i was thinking only about using a full sized shim to change the height.

[Sammy Pepys]

5. I'd try using truss rod and saddle height..

...before shimming. Adjust the truss rod so the neck is totally straight, and then adjust the saddle height as necessary/desired.

Unless you get a good, well-made shim really tight in the neck pocket, your tone might suffer in some way or another. The other problem you might encounter is buzzing that even straightening the truss rod completely won't fix

I did shim the neck on my P-bass many years ago with a green Dunlop Tortex pick because the action was high, though.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

6. The only thing you should use a shim for is to adjust neck angle

Proper neck angle is determined by the saddles and how they sit in the bridge.
(assuming that this is a "fender" type bolt on guitar) With your truss rod adjusted totally straight, you should be able to get your saddles to rest slightly higher than parallel with your bridge.
Also, as a side note.. Adjusting the neck angle does in fact change the intonation. You are adjusting where the distance between the nut and saddle fall.

:headbang:

[bullimiami]

7. anytime you change the distance the string needs to travel from rest to the fretboard

you are going to effect the intonation of course.

[Blue-Jay]

8. You're not Priyanka!

:rofl:

Did you forget to log in, Rockit?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

9. why yes, she did!

thats funny that you noticed

[MilesColtrane]

12. Geez, another reason to like the Lioness...

...she's a musician!

:hi:

[MilesColtrane]

13. ...or not.

[av8rdave]

10. I've never tried it, though

I would think a full shim's effect on the action would still vary along the neck (lower action at the saddle end, with less lowering as you move towards the nut). I guess shimming vs. truss rod adjustment would depend on where you want the action most affected.

[Jamastiene]

11. I haven't. I'm too much of a pitch freak to do that.

Anything that fucks with my intonation in the slightest doesn't happen with my guitars, except fret wear, which I cannot avoid, unfortunately. I can hear if a guitar is out of tune even the slightest bit. I can close my eyes even with a Floyd Rose tremolo and still tune my guitar. The tuner is there for reference and double checking, which I am compulsive about. I have played in too many bands where the other guitarist was out of tune. It irks me. They should put that on my headstone when I die. "Dammit, tune your guitar! You are out of tune! Your B string needs to be tightened just a nudge. Tighten the E string too while you are at it. And the G is too high. Loosen it." just to remind the guitarists I have worked with in the past to do so in my absence. I'm horrible to play with unless your guitar stays in tune or you keep it in tune. Then I am an angel and I thank you. Otherwise, the least I will do is grumble about tuning in between every song, LOUDLY.

I imagine you could do the shimming thing then re-intonate the guitar just to try it and it wouldn't hurt anything. Otherwise, it will throw your intonation off slightly and I'll have to yell at you.