THE electric guitar thread. Facts, opinions, techniques, gear, etc.

[Pepperbelly]

I love the guitar. I started playing the guitar in 1963 (born in '53, me) and the electric guitar by 1965. And I have been playing ever since. Of course, the acoustic guitar and electric guitar, although they share many, many things, there are some differences. They share many techniques but, of course, some that are used almost exclusively by one or the other.

This thread is about the electric guitar.

I have no idea how much most people know about the electric guitar but what I want to do here is share some information with non-electric guitar players (and maybe some players as well :D .)

First things first, although I know everyone knows what they look like and know that they are amplified, but I want to get a little bit deeper into the subject. For starters, the electric guitar generates its own electricity.

Electricity is generated in the world when a magnet is rotated around a copper coil. As the magnet moves around the coil, a current is induced in the coil. The way the electric guitar works is directly connected with this phenomenom. Rather than rotating a magnet around the coil, the magnet (or magnets, as we will discuss in a minute) is wrapped in the copper coil and the vibrating, ferrous strings cause vibration in the magnetic field and induce a current. That tiny current is then transmitted, either through an instrument cord to the amplifier or through a cord to a transmitter that sends the signal to the amplifier.

Pickups ... many, many variations but the main ones that people should recognize is single-coil pickups vs. humbuckers. The single coil clearly is one magnet wrapped in one coil while the humbuckers has two magnets. The single-coil sound is a bit noiser, a bit more twangy. The humbucker is smoother, creamier.

One last consideration is the location of the pickup on the guitar. When a pickup is placed, either at the bridge or near the fingerboard, the tone is affected by its position because the vibrations that are picked up are of a different physical shape. The practical effect is that the bridge pickup is far brighter and usually louder than the neck pickup while the neck pickup makes a less brilliant sound that is more suitable for supporting the overalll music rather than soloing.

This is for starters. Please contribute whatever you think might be useful to guitar players or non-players.

:headbang: :yourock: :headbang:

[SlackJawedYokel]

1. I had no idea

How much nicer a hand-wired amp sounded when compared to mainstream amps until I played with a Bogner and a Dr. X.
I'm saving my pennies for one of those and a *gold* PRS Hollowbody Spruce.
Oh my.

To your topic... woods/materials play an important part in the construction of the guitar... traditionally maples and rosewoods for bodies/necks and fretboards respectively.

One of the primary reasons the Strat and the Les Paul have such distinctive tones, aside from the compeltely different pickups, of course, is the choice of woods.

Of course you've also got things like scale lengths to think of as well.
Anyone else see the Novax guitars/necks?

Cletus

[DeepGreen]

2. Hi Pepperbelly

Just wanted to say Hi. I was born in 53 as well but didn't
start playing guitar till 65. Glad to see there is a musician
in the group the same age I am.

:hi:

[leftofthedial]

3. thanks for the post, Pepperbelly.

excellent basic info.

I'm a recovering keyboard player. I started playing the (acoustic) guitar seriously in 1996 or so. I want to start using my Tele more.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Let's Talk Bridges!

Fixed bridges with full stop tailpieces are ideal for bending, especially when doing double stops with one note being bent. The bending of one string doesn't affect the pitch of the static note.

Floating bridges provide some coloration options in one's playing, but make some things more difficult, like mentioned above. Floating bridges can be both locked and unlocked. Unlocked can use a standard nut or a roller note, the latter providing tuning stability and less string catch, but adding quite a bit of cost.

Locked vibrato bridges clamp the string so the string tension changes more dramatically for a given move of the lever, adding even more sonic options, and completely eliminating string catch, but adding complexity to string changing and can add as much as $200 to the guitar. Another advantage is that these are typically fixed with fine tuners and intonation adjustments that are very accurate and easy to use.

A quasi-floating bridge is the Bigsby and the knock-offs. It's a semi-float attached to a fixed trapeze tailpiece. The vibrato action is FAR more subtle than a block floating bridge (Strats and the rest) and gives a different flavor, and gives lower string tension, so bending is easy, but they are expensive and they are not as tuning stable as the "Fender" design.

Finally, is the traditional trapeze, which using a solid bridge, but the strings are fixed to a rig which attaches to the base of the guitar (often on a plate to a block inside the guitar, for hollow bodies). The strings pass over the bridge in the same way it does through the nut. Intonation adjustments are best left to a professional technician, since often the whole bridge placement needs to be changed, which requires full strobing.

I think that's enough. Does that help this thread Pepperbelly?
The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

5. Excellent addition Professor but one question + a bit more on pickups...

where do the tune-a-matic bridges fall in this continuity, like on a Les Paul?

I have already learned much on this thread. Your bridge information is quite good and also, the information regarding solid-body choice of wood affecting tone was very good.

I don't know HOW I left out hom much the proximity of the pickup to the string affects tone. Sometimes, if the pickup is adjusted closer to the strings, it will make the whole tone "hotter" although there are two pitfalls to watch for, two things that would show that the p.u. is too close. The first is if the pickup is so close that the magnetic field dampens the strings, inhibiting their vibration. The second is if the harmonics start getting goofy. In either case, the pickup might be a scosh too high. To adjust the pickups, there are small screws on each side of the pickup that are smaller than the mounting screws. Those adjust pickup height.

[ProfessorGAC]

6. Tune-a-Matics Are Fixed, Stop Bridges

The Tune-a-matic really has nothing to do with tuning, it is a design that facilitates proper intonation.

The fixed tailpiece holds the strings, very close to the bridge saddles, so there is so much tension between the two that this area of the string doesn't stretch, and doesn't move.

Each saddle is then sitting in its pocket and a small screw is fitted under it. The screw runs across a knife edge on the bottom of the saddle so as the screw is turned the saddle moves toward or away from the neck. Since this screw is easily accessible with the strings on, one can quickly adjust intonation with any decent tuner, or with harmonic location, if no tuner.

This avoid the need to move the whole bridge around and gives each string its own intonation, which is critical since every neck isn't perfect. Much better design that the original trapeze and pass-over bridge.

On the pickups, having them too close will also screw up intonation of chords up the neck. As you move up the neck, the amount the strings are pushed down toward the pickups increases. Since all the strings don't have the same mass per unit length, the magnetic field affects each slightly differently. So, the heavier strings get pulled down toward the magnet more than the lighter stings. This increases the tension of each string a little differently than all the others. Hence, the chord becomes out of tune.

Another note on pickup height: If pickups are too low, the gain drops quite a lot. If they get too low, you still get all the spurious noise, but little output. So, one will end up turning the amp up to get the right amount of volume, but that increases the noise by exactly that same proportion. So, pickups too low is also bad.

BTW: On a Fender Jazz Bass, there is no easy way to adjust pickup height. Better to adjust string height to the right level to get good output and no string rattle.

The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

7. no more takers?

Come on, guys. We could have a good repository of information here.

[IowaGuy]

8. Well, been lurkin' here...

not really a musician, just got a guitar and amp a couple of days ago.
It's a cheap Korean knockoff of a Gibson archtop (Samick) and a Vox ADV50T Valvetronix. Just gettin' my feet wet. I went into this with the general concept that the whole point of the electrically amplified guitar was to accurately reproduce the sound of the plucked string, but the more I investigated, the more I realized, its far more complex than that. That the inherent chracteristics of everything in the signal chain - the neck, body, the frets, the bridge the pickups the pots, tubes, transistors, speakers, speaker cabinets all have a part in shaping the sound and the challenge to the guitarist is to understand these dynamics , a challenge much more significant than just understanding the chords alone.
Don't really have the experience to illuminate to any extent, (especially compared to you guys) what all this means, but I'm havin' a blast learning. Hope you guys don't mind if I bug ya'll with dumb questions from time to time.

[ProfessorGAC]

9. Bug Away

My friends and i have become very fascinated with the mechanics of guitar in the last few years. We regularly have intonation, action, and regulation "parties", where everyone brings a couple of guitars and we all go through them together to max out the performance of the instruments. Neck adjustments, shimming, saddle adjustments for intonation, pickup height, the whole deal.

So, if we can't answer your questions, we'll be sure to make something up that sounds good!

The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

17. How are you doing on technique so far? nt

[ProfessorGAC]

10. I Thought Of Another One

Adjusting the Action Of A Guitar:

On most electrics, one can use the small Allen screws on the bridge saddles to move each one up and down to lower or raise the string height.

However, there is a great trick that my friend and i use to shim the entire neck a pinch, in VERY small increments.

Use the plastic off the rip-off top of a bag of snack food that's above the resealable "zipper". (Like on a bag of beef jerky or something.)

That plastic is fully heat cured (because of the sealing) so it's already heat formed, and won't get any bigger or smaller. That doubled up sealed plastic is about 10 mils thick. (0.010 inches) For bolt on necks, all we have to do is slack the strings, just a pinch, loosen the bolts about a third of the way, and slip one in. Bolt back up, tune. If it's still not good enough, one more piece. We've never put in more than one piece.

That plastic isn't very biodegradable, so it lasts longer than us. It won't break down, it won't compress any further, and it allows a very tiny upward move of the neck. You can't even see any gap. Works great.

Then we regulate the action so it's contant across the neck radius so each string is the same height from the neck at the 12th fret.

Next, i'll do one of these on neck radius. This is fun. Thanks Pepperbelly.
The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

11. Very cool stuff ... btw ...

do you know much about Traynor amps?

They are selling an all tube 80 watter (2X12) with a 2X12 extension cabinet. I heard some bits at muscians friend but those look pretty damned good.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Sorry, No

I knew a guy that had one back in the day. I do remember it was among the most bulletproof of anybody's amp. However, that was in the day when Marshall's regularly self-immolated, and Fender's made by CBS didn't grind, they barked!

So, i really don't know what else to compare it to.

BTW: THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A GUITAR THREAD! You violated your own rules! (Kidding, of course.)
The Professor

[IowaGuy]

12. Ok, you said fire away on dumb questions, so's here is my first...

How do you accurately measure the distance from the neck to the string? By adjusting the action this way, what specifically are you trying to accomplish? Does this allow you to bend individual notes more? It would seem to be subtly more difficult to push the strings down to the fret. Does this affect noticeably the input to the pickups? Would they then need to be readjusted?

OK, that was a lot of dumb questions (be careful of what you ask for)
;)

[ProfessorGAC]

13. OK, First Things First

We actually use a feeler gauge that one uses to set the gaps on struts on a car. That being said, we do that more to test our capability vs. the manufacturer's specs. The number is less important than the actual result.

So, that being said, the real point it to lower the action to a point where it takes minimum effort to get the string down and firmly against the fret wire. At the same time, the goal is to be able to have that minimum effort on every string, every fret, without being so low as to cause any rattle. (For instance, it's common to set it too low and then hear the string hitting another fret down the neck when pressing the string at fret 12.)

In theory, it does make bending notes a little easier, because the absolute string tension is a little lower at pitch when the string is as straight a line between the nut and the bridge. (If the strings are high, they're higher at the bridge. The nut height is more or less fixed. So, just like Pythagoras said, if you change the angle, the string is effectively longer. To get equal pitch, it has to be tighter.) However, i haven't really noticed a huge difference.

Lowering the action makes it EASIER to push the string down, because it hits the fret wire while building less spring tension. (Think of the string as a spring.) Raising the action makes it harder.

Some guys like the action up because they have a heavy handed style, (lots of finger pressure) and a really low action can cause them to move the string laterally after it's down. This pulls things slightly out of pitch. So, some guys like it higher. Guys like me who play fast and use lots of fan picking and hammer-ons like it low.

Last Answer: The closer the strings to the pickup, the louder the signal. The pickup is a magnet that throws off a field, in which the metal string vibrates. Since magnetic fields decay exponentially, the change in distance makes a large change in the amount of electrical signal that's produced. If the pickups get too hot when you lower the strings, you need to bring the pickups down. If the pickups get too close to the pickup, also, you might have so much magnetic strength that when you fret, the string gets pulled down a little extra toward the pickup. This causes detuning. So, you might have to adjust the pickups down, or put the strings back up a bit to avoid that.

See! You wanted to ask questions, and i said ok. You said "be careful what you ask for"! Right back at ya! How happy are you now, that you got me started?
The Professor

[Pepperbelly]

15. also, if the pickup is too high ...

it can not only have an effect on tuning, it can also dampen the vibration of the string.

on edit: too close can also cause some weird harmonics, both clean and particularly on overdrive. IOW, you want it to growl or snarl and instead, it quacks or squawks.

[IowaGuy]

16. Much thanks for the info...

Oh, and I'm real happy, its my family thats struggling with having to listen to me work all this out...oh well! ;)

[Pepperbelly]

18. Anybody know anything about the Epiphone Goldtop ...

with the dog ear pickups modeled after the '56 model?

I played a copy of one of these when I was in the Navy and the dog ears rock. Anyone have any info on the Epi model? Like if the dog ears are hot or barely warm or how the action is ...

You know...

[SlackJawedYokel]

19. Opinions wanted.

I'm thinking of investing in an Ibanez Artcore semi-hollow... the reviews seem good, I've played around with them and they seem well made and the sound is half decent(wanna swap out pickups for Seymour Duncans: Seth Lover SH55 Gold for the neck and JB Classic SH4 Gold for the bridge) and the price is nice... on sale for between $300 and $600-ish depending on the model.
I've been looking at the Ibanez AFS77T Metallic Grey, AM77, AM73, TM71, AFS75T and AF85.

Cletus

[ProfessorGAC]

22. I'm A Huge Ibanez Guy

I think they make the finest guitars for the money of any Mfr. A $1500 Ibanez is the equal, as a guitar to any Gibson or PRS. My highest line guitar is one, and i WENT to buy a PRS. But after playing both, i thought i would save the other $1500, since the PRS didn't play better, didn't sound better, and only had a better finish. (The one i bought is artfully done, but not as fancy.) That wasn't worth an extra $1500.

Just last weekend, i played a couple of those Artcores. I'm not a hollow body kind of player, but they played very well. The neck was slim and fast, it had really good balance, sitting or standing, and the finishes were flawless.

I don't think you can go wrong with them.

You might want to try them BEFORE you buy the Duncan's. The pickups were pretty smooth and quiet. At least check them out before you decide they need to be changed out. You might like them.

The Professor

[porkrind]

20. Now you have me thinking

How does the pickup really work? I'm not sure, but My theory is that you have a powerful permanent magnet in the pickup, which is a source of magnetic flux. The flux lines go out from the magnet, through the surrounding air, and return to the backside of the magnet. The string is iron-based, and therefore ferromagnetic, so it has a high permeability to the flux, and gets coupled into the magnetic circuit. This means the flux would much prefer to travel through the iron rather than the air. As the string vibrates through the field, The reluctance of the flux path around the magnetic circuit changes, and the flux density changes. This change in the flux traveling through the coil induces a current which alternates at the string vibration frequency. This current is kind of like the reverse of what happens in a solenoid inductor when the solenoid current changes, the magnetic field changes.

The humbucker, as I understand it, is designed to common-mode reject RF noise by the fact that the coils are connected in a reverse, or bucking configuration, but the magnet polarity is also reversed, so that a string vibration induces a current of the same sign in both coils, but RF noise will induce currents of opposite sign, thus canceling each other out.

What is the frequency response of the pickup? I'm guessing it's a lowpass filter, but the cutoff freq is probably much higher than the fundamental freqs of the strings. Although, you might get some attenuation of the overtones. Maybe this is why some pickup are more mellow than others. I imagine if you put a capacitor in parallel with the pickup, you could have a tuned LC circuit. I'm not sure if caps are standard within the pickup, or if they do this at all, although they do it out of the pickup with the "tone" control.

If anyone really knows, fill me in.

[Pepperbelly]

21. I thought I explained how it worked in ...

the first post.

:shrug:

[ProfessorGAC]

23. You Are Completely Correct

In all regards. Humbuckers will create a certain level of resonance (resistance * capacitance) because of the reverse magnetic polarities. So, they create a high pass effect. The overtones are shunted on them, vs. a single coil pickup.

So, the jangly sounding stuff almost always has to be played on single coil, because the upper end is barely attenuated. The humbucker begins attenuating the harmonic series at about 2500Hz. Some a little higher. Usually, that's because they are higher gain pickups. So, you get hotter, not just louder.

So, mellower pickups tend to be function of gain, not frequency attenuation, other than the natural relationship between the two.

Caps are not inside the pickup. They are usually available inside a pot, to be used specifically for tone knob. (There might be some pickups set up that way, but i've never seen one.)

Did that answer your question?
The Professor