I need an African-American perspective on this--is that OK?

[Bicoastal]

The Imus controversy has raised some hackles on several other threads, but only one thing has been said that I don't agree with. One person is trying to tell me that Black people can NOT ever be racist, as they have experienced institutionalized racism, whereas the only racism white people have ever experienced is from a personal, individual perspective.

Well, I said, that only means Black people cannot be racist towards whites. There are plenty of other ethnic and racial groups in the country, and surely black people can be racist to them.

No, they said. It's impossible.

If, I pressed, an anonymous poster on a message board referred to a Japanese-American as a "slanty-eyed chink," they would interpret that as a racist, hurtful remark. Now if the poster turned out to be African American, wouldn't it still be a racist remark?

No, they said, and here, let me use an exact quote: "I don't know know what it is, but it's not racism."

Is there any merit to this? I'm finding it hard to believe.

[bliss_eternal]

1. Yes, it's ok...

to ask opinions of those that post in this area. But I'm curious, did no African Americans respond to the thread you speak of? Could you not have asked someone on the actual thread you speak of?

Just so you know, some posters here are African American. But some people here are also multiracial. There are also those of other races and ethnicities that are concerned about issues that impact the African American community. I preface with this information so that you are aware that many different people post (and read here)--all are welcome. Also so that you are aware that someone of various racial backgrounds may address your question (or not).

Are you asking about a discussion you had somewhere on DU? If so would you provide a link to the discussions you are referencing? It may be easier for someone to answer you based on discussion context, etc.

Also, as I'm sure you know many people have opinions on many issues. There are no absolutes, particularly not when you are dealing with people. As a DU member of over 400 posts, you've probably seen many different opinions from Democrats and progressives. We don't all think, feel or believe the same way, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. It's the same within race. No one is an expert on the opinions of ALL African Americans. Of course you can ask for an African American perspective, but that should be considered individually as everyone is different.


No one here is an expert on the opinions of ALL African Americans. No one here (or anywhere) can speak for ALL African Americans.
There are as many different norms within a racial background as there are different people. :)

[Catherine Vincent]

2. I think black people can be and are racist.

But imo, it's mostly out of retaliation.

[Karenina]

8. To whom? Perhaps YOU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3215211#3215231

[Catherine Vincent]

12. I didn't actually laugh at her hair, I just chuckled.

I also thought she was very attractive.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Have you ever met a racist African American?

I've never met a racist African American.

I've met plenty of African Americans angry at institutionalized racism, but that's something entirely different.

[ismnotwasm]

4. Here's a couple of quotes

And while it doesn't in any way answer your question, I hope it makes some sense to you. It's from a Journal of Feminist Philosophy called Hypatia (Spring 2007)

"Racism is a white problem that demands a multiracial solution"

"First, is the acknowledgment that racism is a white problem. While the work of feminists of color and scholars in whiteness studies may have made this observation obvious, that has not always been the case. I, for example was raised to believe that "we're all the same" and that judging people on the basis of race was wrong. However, while racism was clearly terrible, it wasn't presented to me as my problem. Challenging racism was not a struggle my family would need take up. Not until many years later, after reading works by feminists of color, did I come to recognize my own investments in white privilege and that therefore, racism what indeed my problem. Teaching our white children that racism is a "white problem" means teaching them that they much work alongside and in communion with people of color to challenge white supremacy. White anti-racist mothers have an obligation to help white children take responsibility for white supremacy and to learn how to be accountable to that legacy"
Rebecca Aanerud, The Legacy of White Supremacy and the Challenge of White Anti-Racist Mothering

The power and dominance model holds true with racism. If you have some time, here is a very interesting website on prejudice--there is a lot on it, and some of the exercises take time. Many good links as well:
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/anthol.htm

[Karenina]

5. Looking for ammunition?

:shrug:

[bliss_eternal]

13. Hi Karenina...

...I wondered the same. :hi:

[ellacott]

6. The reason people say that because the term is not used in it's original context

People use racist, bigoted and prejudice interchangeably. The dilutes the meaning of racist. The word "race" first appeared during the emergence of the slave practice in the 16th century. Prior to that people were categorized by countries and tribes.

"Race" was selected because there was a competition or contest between various European slave trading nations. They were competing to profit from the human and mineral wealth in Africa. The prize for winning this race was the power to develop Western Civilization, using the wealth extracted out of Africa. Black people were non-competitors in the race, they were the prize. They couldn't play or win. All the slave trading nations benefited. The motives for slavery were purely for the purpose of wealth building. Society and religions began to justify slavery along. Science also put forth theories of a hierarchy of races. By this time White Europeans had secured nearly total control of the world's wealth and resources.

The sole purpose of racism was to control the distribution of wealth. Slavery and Jim Crow continued to keep Blacks non-competitive and totally dependent on Whites for the necessities of life. True racism exists only when one group holds a disproportionate share of wealth and power over another group then uses that power to marginalize, exploit or exclude another group. This is where the term institutional racism comes from. As an institution Whites have denied Blacks employment, educational opportunities, business resources, places to live or the right to vote. That has been the history of this country. According to this definition Blacks have not(as a whole)had the power or exclusive control of resources to the degree that they can politically, educationally, economically or socially to exploit and marginalize the White race therefore they can not be racist.

Many blacks who react by being prejudiced, bitter and bigoted have been unable to escape those legacies because the majority society acknowledges the operation of racism in the distant past but minimize it's present significance.

~Powernomics
Claud Anderson, ED.D

[wildeyed]

7. Do you have a link for that ?

It spells out for me something I have felt, but had a hard time verbalizing.

[Karenina]

9. Try this one too...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x656001

[ellacott]

11. Thank you for the link

Jcrowley always provides some enlightening posts. I'm going to have to do further reading on Theodore W. Allen.

[ellacott]

10. I have a link only to the author's site

http://www.powernomics.com/

The text of my post was from the book I sighted at the end. I highly recommend this book. The author has another book called, Black Labor, White Wealth. These books really enlightened me to a lot of things surrounding race and economics.

[bliss_eternal]

14. Apparently this was a post and run...

...or as another poster said, an attempt to get ammunition for their thread. Interesting they never returned to comment, ask questions, answer questions, etc.

Now they are asking this in General Discussion:

What do you think of Al Sharpton? :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x672280

[Karenina]

15. Among others

There's also a post about his "Korean roommate." :eyes:
"OPERATOR, is THIS the number to which I'm speaking?" :silly:

[Brewman_Jax]

16. The double standard is still in place

the same people that want forgiveness for Michael Richards and Don Imus wouldn't/won't forgive Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for their transgressions of over 20 years ago--and keep bringing them up. :eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

17. You are absolutely correct, Argyle...

...I honestly didn't notice this prior to this most recent incident. But I noticed it this time loud and clear. It's a pity, too. I'm frequently one that speaks up for everyone. There were a few key members this time around that surprised me with their "double standards," and they won't have bliss to defend them anymore.

As Maya Angelou says,"...when people show you who they are, the first time--believe them." I see it loud and clear, and they won't get anymore written support from me on this board.

[Brewman_Jax]

18. If the OP is looking for facts...

Tim Wise nails the whole controversy here, and the REAL point at http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/Imus.html

The article punches a lot of holes in white folks' favorite defense when their racism is caught showing--the "Stevie did it, too" lines.

[Karenina]

19. Golly gee... Where's the OP???

Me being a poet without even "knowing" it. ;-)

[ellacott]

20. I wasn't aware of the motive's of the OP

I probably wouldn't have taken the time to reply.