Anti-Atheist Bigotry in 2008 - Atheist Ethicist

[YankeyMCC]

I thought you all would like to see this list:

(snip)
Recently, I saw a list of 10 events in 2008 that allegedly illustrate the persecution that Christians suffer in the United States. The list included events such as PZ Myers' alleged desecration of a Eucharist and Bill Mahar's movie Religulous. (Of course, we must realize that we are dealing with people who think that anything other than total agreement with and subservience to their will counts as 'persecution').

As an "atheist ethicist" I have been particularly concerned with the issue of anti-atheist bigotry. So, allow me to present my list of events in 2008 that illustrate the magnitude of anti-atheist bigotry in America.
(snip)

http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2009/01/anti-atheist-bigotry-in-2008.html

[trotsky]

1. That's a sobering list.

And to think there's a sizable number of DUers who don't believe atheists are discriminated against at all.

[dmallind]

2. Ermm... Eldora shootings?

Admittedly happened on the penultimate day of the year and took some time to get even vaguely widely disseminated but I would think that shooting non-Christians would be a slightly more worthy example than a car dealer's ad.

[cosmik debris]

3. You're just being overly sensitive to bullets

We all know that words hurt the most. :sarcasm:

[dmallind]

4. I'm a wuss that way. There's one thing I wonder in all this greater bigotry thing though...

Gays and atheists are about the same proportion of the population.

Both experience varying degrees of intolerance and discrimination up to and including being killed.

But the public awareness and level of interest and caring about this is vastly different.

Ask 100 random people on the street who Matthew Shepard is and I'm guessing somewhere between 25-50% would be able to say roughly what happened to him and why.

Ask 100 random people on the street who Larry Hooper is and you would get one or two people who knew the murdered atheist and one or two who mentioned a musician (same name, equal obscurity, different guy) with 95% blank looks.

Now I have nothing against gay folks (and as a bi guy myself have had nothing between me and gay folks quite a few timnes ;) ) but I am in envious awe of their PR ability and cohesiveness as an activist group. When I was in organized atheist groups one of the big weaknesses to me was how we used our activism. One group I was a long term memver of probably marched and demonstrated as much for gay rights as for atheistic causes, from May Day parades to the annual gay rights march to opposinbg Boy Scouts exclusion of gays with pickets at meetings etc. Obviously I agree with these causes, and agree that there is for most homophobes some religious component to their bigotry, but I wondered two things many times:

1) Why is a group created and run to do what little we could to resist religious hegemnoy and spread positive messages of atheism doing dedicating so much time to a perfectly valid and worthwhile cause that is however not directly related to it?

2) Why was it that this was only and always a one way street. The local HRC folks and parade organizers were pleased to get our support and numbers, but not once did any gay rights group show up to any purely atheistic event.

The answer to me seems to be a perfectly laudable and very very effective single minded focus to gay rights groups that atheist groups lack. We also spent a lot of time working on proe-choice causes etc. Many atheist groups I know work against the death penalty etc too. They say this is because most of their members agree (quite true - atheists are overwhelmingly if not entirely left of center) and because there is a religious component to the opposite arguments (often somewhat true, but stretched way too thin in many cases). However the same could be said of gay rights groups. A poll of THEIR members would doubtless show overwhelming support for reproductive choice and an end to the DP, but collectively as organized entities they are almost never drawn into supporting them. All their group efforts go towards their main cause.

I wonder what atheists could achieve if we were equally focused and dedicated instead of so scattershot and internally wranglesome.

[cosmik debris]

5. They have a couple of advantages we don't have.

They like each other. And they have activities in common.

Gay bars are abundant, but atheists bars are...you get the picture.

Gay people also tend to be more gregarious, or at least that's my experience.

But most of all, atheists have very little to talk about. Discussing things that don't exist is not in our nature. How often do you get into a conversation on the non-existence of unicorns? When atheists get together to discuss atheism, it turns into a bitch session about theism.

Their message is positive: We want to join society.

Our message is negative: We want theism out of society.

[dmallind]

6. Some agreement, some not.

I love the idea of an atheist bar, but concede I have not found one.

I have met surly gays and flamboyant atheists, but your generalization is probably true.

The real niggle I have is with the negativity. I know (or guess with much evidence) that you mean negative as in negation rather than as in harmful, but even there that's only a surface view. The GOOD things the groups I have been in, which I should mention to balance my earlier whining, included plenty of positive activities in both senses of the word. We set up free critical thinking classes and visited schools explaining elementary logic, only tangentially connecting it to god-belief. We set up debates on morality to spread the idea of teleological and thoroughly human ethical systems. Sure we did our share of complaining - in an 83% Christian nation that's inevitable, but our lobbying volunteers spent their time trying to strengthen science curricula as much as trying to keep creationism out of them (same thing I guess). Heck we even had a Toastmaster's club to practice all those public speaking skills for the above.

[cosmik debris]

7. I guess I should have phrased it differently

They want to add good things to the mix, we want to subtract bad things from the mix.

While anecdotes of success are not uncommon, our struggle is much greater because our message is less positive.

[dmallind]

8. Still not buying that except on a very limited level

We wnat to take out FORCED worship or conformance to divine guesswork, which is subtracting bad things yes, but we also want toa dd a more effective, more free and more nuanced way of thinking about humanity, morality, science and society, which is adding a very good thing. I often wonder if focusing our efforts on teaching and spreading awareness of criticial thinking - with only occasional and tangential insatnces of applying it gods - would be more useful and more palatable.

Even if not a single person applied this to gods, applying to questions of law and politics and morality would keep out the vast majority of the problems with religion in public life.

[semillama]

10. The local atheist group meets at a lesbian martini bar.

Just putting that out there.

[immoderate]

13. Our atheists group meets weekly in a pub.

Conversation are lively and mostly positive. Politics, history, science, and the arts are most common subjects, since we all know what we think of religion. However, many in the group are quite knowledgeable about the various religions so that gets thrown in too. It's about culture and human nature, not bitchin'.

We run events, sometimes in coordination with CFI, ACLU, and JREF. County parks(!) co-sponsor our Darwin Day and Astronomy day activities.

--IMM

[ihavenobias]

14. Liar!

Why did you leave out the devil worshipping, human sacrifices and kitten stomping that's required at any and all atheist gatherings??

;)

[immoderate]

15. What is it about "goes without saying" that you don't understand?

--IMM :hi:

[Jokerman]

9. This deserves a K&R more than anything else I've read today.

Too bad it can be recommended.

Maybe it should be cross posted in R&T. I'd like to see someone try to argue that we aren't victims of discrimination in the face of that list.

Thanks.

[prostock69]

11. This just shows that more and more of us are "coming out" and

it's making Christians nervous and scared. It's hilarious! I see their crying and whining about our presence a good thing. We mustn't be deterred about it. We need to keep demanding our place in society by not sitting down and shutting up.

[rrneck]

12. Hard to gripe today.

Clockwise:
100 Oaks Mall, Nashville TN
Bellvue Baptist Church, Memphis TN
Patrick Henry College, somewhere under the armpit of Washington DC
(Insert corporate-plug-for-a-name here) Stadium, Nashville TN



Religion is losing. We now know that it can't cure disease by driving out evil spirits. It can't stop natural disasters by sacrificing virgins. It is no more effective at moderating excessive personal behavior than well crafted legislation and effective public education. All the stuff we once needed religion to do for us we are discovering we can do for ourselves. When oil hits two hundred dollars a barrel all those churches-cum-shopping malls and media empires disguised as the makers of theology will just run out of steam and disappear. They won't give up without a fight, but they will lose. And when they do all those who require faith in some deity will have to figure that out for themselves rather than just consuming it as another product.

Atheists have traditionally been kicked around by every culture in the last few thousand years, but they're not getting burned at the stake nowadays. In this country. Yet. There's a lot of work to do, but it's a helluva lot better than it was.

Hey, Barack Obama just took the oath of office. I'm having a hard time being pessimistic today. Especially in light of one of the best threads I've read in a long time.

[tiddlywinks]

19. hi just curious why the pics

100 oaks mall, for example and the stadium?
Just curious-i used to live in nashville. Did they convert 100 oaks to ... a big church? egads or Trinity Network? lolz

[Seldona]

16. Kick

Bigotry against athiests is the single most accepted form of bigotry. I will be happy when we can hold office without having to claim belief.

[BlueMomInSanDiego]

17. Nice Blog

Enjoyed your blog; I've bookmarked it for future reading also. One small point - that Ford dealership that ran the anti-atheist ad was not in San Diego - they're up in Mojave in Central California.

[YankeyMCC]

18. Not my blog, it is done by Alonzo Fyfe

it is one of the few blogs I read regularly.