Mad Men -- don't believe it

[Auggie]

It wasn't like that. No one ever goes into a client presentation without an idea. No one. No agency president would ever allow a creative to wing it either. Or not be briefed on the concept.

It's just a very dramatized TV show.

And it's highly unlikely the ad business ever operated in such a misogynistic environment. Creative agencies, as this one is supposedly based upon, embraced and encouraged involvement and ideas from all genders. So did clients. For proof go read Mary Wells Lawrences' bio, "A Big Life (in Advertising)."

I've been working in the ad business and agencies for 28 eight years. Believe me, this is bullshit.

[knitter4democracy]

1. I wondered about that.

Why would an ad exec say that he doesn't care what women want, when even then, they knew that wives controlled purchasing decisions? Interesting show, but total fiction.

[Longhorn]

2. Wait a minute! That happened all the time

on Bewitched! :D

I watched the first two episodes last weekend and don't know if I can stand going back to that time and watching the crap that women had to put up with and even accepted. My mother worked for an ad agency in the 60s and, while I know such behavior wasn't limited to advertising, she was hit on by her boss and nearly every male in the office. She had no recourse but to fend them off and hope she didn't get fired, especially since she was a single parent of four.

[Eurobabe]

3. Let's see, 28 yrs. takes us back to about 1980.

Isn't this show set in the early 1960s? I think we still had a huge gender gap back then, by 1980 or the late 70s when you say you started, many strides had been made in gender equality. I don't think it's bullshit at all, it's very true to the 60s.

In fact, I quite like this show, I just started watching it, and there is an air of nostalgia surrounding it. (caveat: this certainly doesn't mean that I want to return to the dark days of men as king of the roost, at work - at home, no way!) But it does have the feel of many series that were popular during the early 1960s.

[Longhorn]

4. The show is growing on me.

I guess the first one seemed especially crass since we were being introduced to the characters. Now we're beginning to see that the jerks aren't necessarily getting away with their boorish behaviors; the characters are growing and revealing their inner conflicts. I'm glad I kept watching because now I'm caught up in their stories. :)

[Eurobabe]

5. Aug. 2 was the only show I have seen so far

I've got the TiVO set up for season pass, but I don't know how much I have missed already. The episode I saw was the one in which Peter came back from his honeymoon and Don made a pass at the shopping heiress.

I just bought the first 2 episodes from iTunes. Ya gotta love technology!!!

I know what I will be doing tonight. :))

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. Oh, my goodness, 1960 and 1980 were light years apart in treatment of women

in the workplace.

In the 1960s, newspapers still had sex-segregated want ads: nurses, secretaries, retail sales, "stewardesses," bank tellers, and maids under Help Wanted: Women and all other jobs under Help Wanted: Men. There was a separate column for Help Wanted: Teachers, since the teaching was pretty open to women, except for the field of social studies, because social studies teaching was a way to keep the football and basketball coaches busy before 3PM. There was a column labeled Help Wanted: Men and Women, but it was almost entirely taken up by ads for caretaker couples in apartment complexes and resorts.

I worked for Sears during the summer in the late 1960s, and only men could earn commissions. Women might sell something that normally earned commission, like a lawn mower or dorm-sized refrigerator, but they had to write up the sale in the name of the man who was "supposed" to sell those items.

I've downloaded the show from iTunes, although I haven't watched it yet, but I expect not to be surprised at the sexism.

[displacedtexan]

6. That show creeps me out.

I can honestly say that the atmosphere captured by this TV show's creative team is disturbingly familiar. If you were never a woman during the 60's (pre- Roe), I'm sure you have a hard time believing that kind of workplace power over women existed.

Of course, the show has lumped tons of individual anecdotal stuff into each male and female character. Maybe that's why it seems so over-the-top for younger people watching.

Trust me, when your first job interview has nothing to do with college grades (Summa) and everything to do with "Can I trust you not to take this job and then get married and quit?" questions and the "kind hand" cupped in the small of your back when you're escorted to the door with your contract in hand, you know what I'm talking about.

That show gives me the creeps, yet I keep tuning in for the sets, costumes, and kitsch.

[Eurobabe]

7. I watched the first two episodes now, I am all caught up

Wow. That show is awesome! It's like time travel back to my childhood. First, EVERYONE is smoking, even the pregnant women. The married men are all cheating on their wives. And did you catch Betsy (Don's wife) yelling at the kid that had a dry cleaning bag over her head "if the clean clothes are all over the floor, you are in BIG trouble!!" Meanwhile the kid looks like she is asphyxiating in the bag. I laughed my ass off!

The irreverence of this show is amazing. I'm hooked!

[Longhorn]

8. I saw The Making of Mad Men before the series started.

They might have it at the AMC website. They said they went to great lengths to be accurate with costumes, decor, etc., and especially the smoking.

I remember those days, too, and this show seems quite familiar -- some of it good and some of it not so good. I agree -- the plastic bag scene was jaw-dropping! :)

[displacedtexan]

9. Suffocation, Simple suffocation. Suffocation, the game we love to play.

Remember that song?

That's the first thing I thought of after that scene.

[Katherine Brengle]

10. If you really believe that any work environment in 1960 (and many of them to this day)

was not as misogynistic as portrayed on this show, you are badly misinformed.

As far as the beginning of your OP, I agree that didn't seem realistic.

[Auggie]

11. Not necessarily in advertising

I know people from that era who worked in the business. Ad agencies were among the more liberal/forward-thinking firms of their day.
I'm sure it existed to some degree but would be very surprised if it were as blatant as depicted in this show.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. The only false notes I see in that program

are occasional slips into later language, such as psychobabble, which really didn't come along till the late 1970s.

[valerief]

14. Since 1980? AFTER the introduction of the big Women's Lib movement?

You're talking apples and oranges.

[Auggie]

15. I've worked with and know people from that generation in advertising

and have asked them... it's a dramatization.

[NashVegas]

16. It's All In Who Does the Hiring and Firing

If whomever is doing the hiring wants their staff to work together to compete against outside businesses, sexism would be less an issue because they'll be looking for very cooperative people. If that person wants a staff to compete against each other, different story. Misogyny is just another way of stepping over someone.