Washington Whispers on Kerry 2008

[Dr Ron]

Thumbs Up for '08 For the Kerry Clan

With Republicans scrounging around for an able successor to President Bush in the 2008 election, Washington's focus is fast turning to an escalating battle on the Democratic side between front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton and 2004 nominee Sen. John Kerry . Whispers learns that Kerry is not just testing the waters: He's running . "His family wants him to run again," says one pal. Proof he's in: Kerry has added names to his E-mail list of 3 million, kept johnkerry.com alive and kicking, raised boatloads of cash for friendly Democrats, and moved to seize control of hot-button issues like kids' healthcare, the environment, and support for military families. The Kerry clan is also pushing the Clinton electability issue. "Donors and organized labor love Bill Clinton, " says one Kerry friend. "But they're telling everyone they're terrified that she'd get stomped."

Friends of Hillary, meanwhile, are touting her front-runner status and joining in the chorus of Democrats who think Kerry should crawl under a rock and go away. "He had his chance," mutters a Clinton ally. "It's over."

The bottom line: Pollster John Zogby says Clinton's out front in part because of her recent shift to the middle on partisan issues. That has prompted some haters to take a second look. "She can take the 'somewhat unfavorables,'" Zogby says, "and turn them into 'somewhat favorables.'"

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/articles/050509/9whisplead.htm

[JI7]

1. i saw this but it doesn't look like much than we already know

it's clear Kerry would like to run again and his family has already said they would support him. and the things he is doing are things he has been doing throughout his life and things he would do whether or not he ran again.

but the final decision to run will most likely be made later on since you have to take into account what you think your chances are.

also this just looks like an attempt at Hillary vs Kerry gossipy type stuff.

[politicasista]

2. I agree. It just sounds like gossip

I don't remember anyone telling Gore (who I also) like to crawl under a rock and hide or that "he had his chance, it's over." No wonder the Dems will continue to lose elections.

[karynnj]

8. Hillary's friends may be making a huge mistake in saying Kerry

should crawl under a rock. If anyone could have told someone to hide under a rock it was Gore to Bill Clinton. I agree that the press at this stage last time was in fact saying Gore deserved a second chance. Whether Kerry is running or not, the things he is doing will benefit whoever runs.

By saying he should hide under a rock, they are almost saying he has something to be ashamed of - which he clearly doesn't. That he was able to stand tall and even smile during the inaugural address showed a huge amount of personal strength and discipline. Telling him to hide, may get the same response he gave Bush in the debates when he said that "he had never wilted in his life". If anything, it's likely to push him to fight harder.

Hopefully though, this is just gossip. Since when did Kerry have a clan? Does everyone in MA have a clan? (I've heard of the Kennedy clan)

[TayTay]

12. I would say yes to that clan thing.

Unless I am mistaken, I remember reading that Kerry's Mom was one of 11 children. That means that he must have 'cousins by the dozens' around Massachusetts and New England.

And the Forbes side had people all over the place. They had a long and interesting history of going to China and such. Sometime, when you are in MA, you must check out the Peabody Essex Museum in Salem, MA. This houses many of the things that world travelers from MA in the 1800's brought back from exotic locals of the time. There are artifacts from China, Africa, Asia and so forth. Very interesting history there.

BTW, that family has their own historical whatnots around here, but, like most New Englanders, don't make to make a big deal about it. (It's just not done, okay.) So, you tell me if there is a family resemblance: http://www.key-biz.com/ssn/Milton/forbes.html

[whometense]

14. Love that place.

We haven't been there in a long time. When my kids were little they were mesmerized by the shrunken heads. I preferred the old houses, myself.

[TayTay]

17. Just curious. Did you click on the link I embedded

It has a family portrait. I detected a resemblance. Probably just me, but it was interesting.

[whometense]

31. Sorry - missed the link first time,

but, yeah. I see a resemblance too. Long face, prominent jaw. Definitely.

[DoBotherMe]

41. And the deep set eyes and

sloping eyebrows. D ; )

[karynnj]

19. Sorry for sarcasm - there is a resemblance

The man in the painting has a long face as his descendant.

[TayTay]

21. Not a big deal.

I remember reading somewhere that Kerry actually tapped into Forbes family connections in the Philippines in the 1980's. He took a trip there to fact find on the Marcos family hold to power and to see if he could persuade Marcos to loosen up and give more freedom to the people. I found it interesting (in a small way, no big deal) that that family still had connections in Asia all these years (centuries?) later. Just a tiny item, but I liked it.

EDIT: What sarcasm? I am one of 8 kids and have a big clan. I thought the question was legit. And I think Kerry does huge numbers of relatives in MA. I have no idea how many consulted on whether or not he should run again, but he has lots of kin around here. I remember, in years past, when MA newspapers would claim that he wasn't really from MA. Liars. He is deeply connected to this region.

[wisteria]

58. Oh my gosh! That picture of R.B. Forbes does resemble him.

Actually, I'm shocked at the similarities. How closely related would R.B. Forbes and John Kerry be?

[Dr Ron]

3. Definately nothing new

When I posted this on the Unofficial Kerry Blog and at LUTD, I added No Surprise to the title. I still thought that people in the Kerry section would be interested. If it was real news I would have posted it in one of the main sections.

[JI7]

4. yeah, i have no problem with you posting it

even little things like this are what this forum is for. i was just commenting on the piece itself.

[politicasista]

5. No problem, Doc.

Any Kerry news is always welcomed here.

[Pirate Smile]

10. Thanks for posting it. We like to hear the gossipy stuff too. Why not?

[whometense]

15. Second that.

I like the gossipy stuff too. I had a free subscription to US News for a while through my Salon subscription. Absolutely HATED the magazine, but I alwways checked out Washington Whispers before I tossed it in the recycling bin. ;-)

[wisteria]

59. Thanks for the info, its always nice to see things written up about Kerry.

[sandnsea]

6. Just letting off steam

I love to hear Bill Clinton speak, anytime, anywhere. He knows how to raise the roof.

But his policies? Eh. I never liked his triangulating. I always felt like it allowed the right wing "thinking errors" to take root. Like forest land use, we ended up with compromised use instead of best use. Take ski resorts. Yes we got some protected land, but we also got some butt ugly, environmentally unfriendly developments. We didn't change the debate on how to develop. So, surprise, surprise, they're pressing to get back into the land that Clinton compromised on. He did alot of stuff like that. Trade was like that. Hillary is more of the same.

We need somebody who has a truly visionary outlook, on economics, environment, human rights, etc. John Kerry needs to see Third Way isn't it.

[JI7]

7. i don't think

Clinton had a good understanding of some of these issues such as the environment and how they connect to other issues.

i think that's where Kerry is much better. he is better at seeing how these things are connected and evaluating policies that we put in place and how to improve on them .

Kerry is much better at understanding it and explaining it to people. i think that's one reason he did well in iowa. Ethanol is a big issue in Iowa but Kerry's own position tended to be against it including some votes against it. but these things didn't end up hurting him too much and i think part of the reason had to do with him being able to speak to the people and understand them. the people could see he understood them.

that's why those comments about wanting to get rid of the agricultural dept didn't hurt him either and in fact the iowa state official for agriculture defended him also.

[rox63]

13. Bill Clinton can give a barn-burner of a speech

But I always had some problems with the way he ran the country. Mind you, I think it was 10,000 times better than the way * is trashing the country. But everything was up for compromise. It was like his principles were for sale to the highest bidder. Well, I guess we can take some comfort in the fact that he HAD principles to start out with, unlike *.

Yes, Kerry has been known to compromise. Sometimes that's a good thing. But there always has to be a core set of principles that you stick to. Kerry has that, where Clinton never did. And I suspect that Hillary would be a lot like Bill, just without the blow jobs.

[Dr Ron]

43. Different type of compromise

Kerry's compromises don't seem to be a matter of ignoring principles the way Clinton's were. It is one thing to compromise in order to get the best possible solution, especially if you are not really compromising basic prinicples. For example, with the workplace religion act he's working on, he tries to find a way to work with religious conservatives but still ensures that religious observance won't interfere with employers or customers.

It is much more likely Clinton would compromise purely to get more votes. For example, during the 2004 campaign Clinton advised Kerry to support the anti-gay marriage ballot proposals in order to pick up votes in the states where they were on the ballot. Kerry was unwilling to compromise in that manner.

[wisteria]

60. I like to think of Kerry as being principled and having integrity.

I think Clinton lacked both of these things. If it got him votes he did it.IMO, Hillary is just like Bill. I question her motives for wanting to be president.

[kerrygoddess]

9. I'll just add my 2 cents to this...

I got confirmation yesterday that it's a given.

[whometense]

11. Reeeeaaaallllllly?????

If do, you just made my night. Nothing could make me happier. :loveya:

Now sit back and wait for the pending howls of outrage.

[TayTay]

16. This is the 'Invisible primary' that

Walter Shapiro wrote about in his book, One-Car Caravan. (A book about the pre-primary fight for the nomination that was published in 2004.) It is going to stay this way in a sort of haze of non-committal committals and such until early 2007.

This is a great winnowing out period when early candidates decide if running for Pres is something they want to do and if they actually want to put their families through that kind of an ordeal. Can these folks raise the necessary money? (Boatloads of money, actually. Kerry has proven he can. Not only that, but one of his chief financial backers was sent to the DNC to help fund-raise, which also raises goodwill for the candidate.)

The last race was actually a lot harder. Kerry was an 'unknown.' There were problems. (As related in the Shapiro book, the Senator's Mother was dying in 2002. That had to have affected him and the time commitments he made in the race.) The IWR vote was a bigger concern than anyone thought it would be. The insurgency campaign of Howard Dean rocked the whole Dem field and sucked the oxygen out of everyone else's campaigns. And so it goes.

Next time will be different and will come with it's own set of problems. I hardly think Hillary Clinton is a lock. It's too early. She has to survive her re-election campaign next year. The Rethugs want to take her out and several of them are trying to publish a 'Swift Boat' like attack on her. She has been through the national ringer before and that is an asset for her (as it is for Kerry.) But she has not run on her own. We shall see. For now, be happy that Kerry is in the top 5. That's all that's needed this far out. There is a lot of goodwill for Kerry in both the country and the Dem Party. We shall see what happens with it. In the meantime, he is doing an outstanding job of being a good Democrat and making a sharp contrast between what he would have done and what The Idiot King is doing with the country. That will do for now.

[JI7]

18. prostate cancer also

he found out and was being treated just as the primary campaigns were starting out in 2003.

[TayTay]

20. that's right.

That's what took him out of commission for three months in 2003. That allowed for Howard Dean to make his famous, "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" remark at the Dem meeting in early 2003 and go unchallenged on it.

Gawd, there is actually a lot of baggage that is gone. And, not to be crude about it, but Kerry has shown that he can 'take a punch' and not lay down and die. He did go toe-to-toe with the Rethugs and he came within a whisker of getting the votes to take the White House from a sitting President in a time of war, after the worst attack on domestic soil in 60 years. I think he's in fine shape to run again. (And I admire his grit in doing so and his family's grit in saying that he should do it. They went through a lot of pain in 2004. I find it amazing and inspiring that they are willing to do so again.)

[whometense]

23. And so soon too.

I am filled with admiration for their refusal to give up.

[fedupinBushcountry]

24. Just a tidbit

There was only one primary candidate that did not wish Kerry well before or after his surgery. Yes it is who you think it is.

[politicasista]

25. Dean? Edwards? Clark? Sharpton?

:shrug:

[fedupinBushcountry]

26. Answer

Is there a doctor in the house.

[politicasista]

28. Oh, I see

I know that might be old news, but I wonder if he is pushing for Hillary's nomination on the inside. :shrug:

[fedupinBushcountry]

30. Who knows

All I know, was that I knew for some reason back in the spring of 2003, that Kerry would be the one to connect with people. I have never been a Hillary fan, she was a great First Lady and a good Senator, but I don't see her as a President, and I think a lot of other people feel that way too.

My brother is a news reporter in N.Y. and travelled with her during her Senate campaign and he was not very impressed with her. She has had to do a lot to win the hearts of all her constituents, especially those out of the NYC area. In reality she was an outsider, the name and recognition gave her the win and the D beside her name.

[karynnj]

32. That really changes my opinion of Dean

Are you sure he really never wished Kerry well? Did he talk to him at all about it? It just seems really cold that especially he is as a doctor, he wouldn't have made some comment to Kerry. (As a doctor he had to have talked to people about illness so it couldn't just be a queasiness about the subject.) Even if he disliked Kerry or viewed him only as a competitor, wishing him well seems only human.

How is this known?

[fedupinBushcountry]

34. Teresa

She told a group in California, I believe it was way back in 2003. I remember someone that was there telling us later on the Kerry blog.

I would say more of why I never supported Dean, but am afraid I will get deleted, because for some reason you can say whatever you want about other candidates on this board, but not him.

I enjoy this forum, but I wonder why there is not a private Dean forum, instead his supporters can say whatever they want on the main discussion boards, and we here have to walk on tippy toes. :shrug:

[karynnj]

36. Couldn't have a better source

Teresa is fantastic. It really bothers me that the media treated her worse than anyone. Reading her biography on the web site and reading some of the articles that mentioned the work she had done with her foundation, I'm infuriated that her coverage was essentially (Teresa is not perfect like Laura).

P.S. Teresa would probably have been a better doctor than Dean

[wisteria]

62. I agree with your Dean comments.

Being a late-comer to the DU, I got the impression this was an original site in support of Dean, similar to Daily Kos. I just believe in being fair. Sometimes the DU seems to looks the other way and isn't "fair and balanced" when it comes to Dean.

[whometense]

22. Just like to second TayTay's recommendation

of One-Car Caravan. It was the best political book I read all last year. I liked it so much I wrote Walter Shapiro a fan email (which he answered!)

I think what made it so special had a lot to do with Shapiro himself, who is a sharp observer, but never takes a cheap shot at anyone. The book really fleshes out who some of these people are.

[Dr Ron]

46. Is it still worth reading?

I bought it and glanced at some of the Kerry material but never really read the book. I'm now undecided on reading this and some of the other unread books I have which pertain more to the 2004 election. Would you still recommend reading it at this time?

[TayTay]

47. This one is not that painful

I still can't read a lot of stuff. (The Newsweek wrap-up was read in sections over a looooong period of time.)

Walter Shapiro wrote a book about the process of running for the Presidential nomination. He took a look at the people involved in this and what they are like. His look at John Kerry was uniquely his and is different from everything else that has been written about the man. It has more insight, shows the strengths of the man, some of his quirks and shows a bit more of his heart than most other stuff I've read. The contrast in the candidates who ran becomes apparent in the Shapiro book and I found it a lovely read. It is a bit wistful at the end, sigh, but we can't get away from that can we. (My copy is the paperback. It ends at the Dem Convention. 'nuff said.)

[whometense]

54. I loved it.

I actually read it after the primaries, so in a way it was past its relevance, but found it really enlightening anyway. And he tells some wonderful Kerry stories.

The most fascinating part for me (aside from the inside info on Kerry) was the great overview it gave me into the world of the invisible primary. That may be old for you, though. I wasn't that involved in politics until Kerry decided to run, so to me it was new.

Also, Shapiro is a very entertaining writer.

[Dr Ron]

45. Has to stay invisible

Nobody is going to declare this early as doing so would subject them to all the campaign finance rules.

[TayTay]

48. Oh absolutely, but that's not really what he meant

Running for President is a very strange thing to do. It really is. Only a tiny handful of people can actually do this and be viewed seriously by the country. Some very qualified people have tried to run for President and never gotten into serious contention. John Kerry is a very serious candidate who has a shot at this.

The idiotic notions in the press and elsewhere that he has had his shot and should retire are part of the invisible primary. So is the pablum about Senators not winning. These are moronic spew that are simply being used to discourage the man from running so that someone else can have a shot. It is political posturing and is very much a part of the pre-race race. This is but another test to pass. Politicans are odd folks to begin with and the games that are part of the process make the whole thing odder still.

Kerry is running. It's just that he is now running in the shadow game that preceeds the real race. This is a race for respect within the country and within the Democratic Party. It is a race to hang on to the supporters from the last time while convincing others that he deserves another shot. And all that stuff. It's just part of the game.

[Dr Ron]

49. Senators

I wonder if with the internet and blogs we are beyond the era where being a Senator is a liability.

There is definately a down side as any vote could be twisted. However, we saw with Dukakis that acts of governors could also be used against them.

I suspect that today those who want to run negative campaigns will be able to come up with things on anyone (considering the low threashold for validity required). The blogs and right wing noise machine will be able to make whatever they come up with against a Democartic opponent appear as real as a voting record.

On the other hand, with on line organization there may be a slight advantage for Senators. While Dean showed that even a governor from a small state could receive a tremendous amount of on line support, with more candidates trying this I think those with more national exposure will have the advantage here.

[TayTay]

53. Based on 2005 knowledge, it could an all Senate race

We have a lot of Senators in play for the 'pubbies, including some not so odious ones. (Still not to my liking, but I don't despise some of them. Obviously I am not talking about George Allen.)

First
Hagel
McCain
Allen

They all have baggage. But as former Sen Bradley wrote in his NYTimes piece, the pubbies just remove the top of the pyramid and replace it with a new one. The Dems rebuild every 4 years in the inverted pyramid. We have to fix that now. Then Senators can run on our side.

[politicasista]

51. If he is running.........

Does he have a plan to deal with the SB liars?

Hope he continues to stay in the South. (There is an ugly DU thread about the campaign and the South).

What about his Senate seat in 2008?

What about the angry dems from 2004 who are still out there?

Hope I don't offend anyone. :)

[Pirate Smile]

55. Those are all great questions and real issues that will need to be

dealt with - especially IMO the SwiftLiars.

[whometense]

57. I have no idea

how he will deal with them - but I'd bet the house that there will be a hell of a plan in place. One of the things I appreciate most about Kerry is his ability to learn from his errors and make the necessary adjustments. Of course, in order to correct mistakes you first have to admit to them, something * will never be able to do.

[Pirate Smile]

61. He has some time now. I hope he has a plan. I hate the way it

all ended up and too many people still believe the lies.

[Firespirit]

27. Let the media anoint Hillary, or whoever.

Last time, I recall, voters in the first primary states didn't like having a candidate "selected" for them. I'm not worried about Hillary being considered the "frontrunner." (1) This far in advance, it doesn't mean anything, and (2) Kerry is "driven" when he's not the frontrunner. At any rate, there shouldn't be "Kerry fatigue" by the time the primaries roll around if the media push Hillary. :D

[politicasista]

29. Amen

:hi:

[Dr Ron]

33. Democrats rarely nominate front runner

Excluding sitting President or VP, it is very rare for the front runner to win the nomination. Of course Hillary is in an unusual position which we've never encountered before, making it hard to predict.

The primary schedule might also work against Hillary unless she is so far out in front that she can roll through primaries nation wide. Hopefully Kerry can repeat his early successes in Iowa and New Hampshire, with Hillary unlikely to make a come back in the Southern primaries.

[TayTay]

35. Hillary's folks are already talking about skipping Iowa

That was a mistake for Clark and it would be a mistake for Clinton. (Of course, if Vilsack runs, it would be a mistake for everyone, so who knows.)

[karynnj]

37. Why are they saying she'd skip Iowa

If she ran and won, it would mean that people who spent a lot of time with her liked her.

Depending on a Southern strategy when Warner, Edwards and Bayh may also run seems risky. I doubt she wins all of them vs these 3. If one of them wins Iowa and wins or does well in NH, that one could become the favorite. If Kerry wins Iowa, he would probably be the favorite in NH. If the Southern states split between all the Conservative Southerns (Yes, I know where Indiana is but it is on some level Southern) and Hillary, it could be a long primary fight. My June vote in NJ may count for the first time! Maybe she's counting on Bill's strength in the South.

[Dr Ron]

40. If Vilsak runs then Iowa's probably not in play

Most likley everyone will leave him to run opposed, but there is some question as to whether being second there would create momentum.

If Vilsak runs, then most likley New Hampshire becomes even more important, but it would be a must win state for Kerry.

[TayTay]

52. That would make downstream primaries so much more...

interesting as well. South Carolina would gain even more prominence and then we would head into a string of primaries across the US that would be very open. Money would become much more of an issue and smaller candidates just might not make it. (I am of the opinion that money is going to be one of the most important things this time around, which would make Clinton V. Kerry fascinating. Both are very, very good fundraisers. Hillary can tap New York money and some LA money. So can Kerry. Kerry has that Lawyers network and some of those other folks who are still with him. Hillary has the extensive FOB network. Wow! This would be so interesting.)

Eh, it might not happen. But then again, I wonder if Vilsak will run? Although it is ridiculously early, I sense that 2008 will be a battle of Titans for the Dems because they will be aching to get the WH back and the smaller candidates just won't get the money.

Eh, it's early who knows.

[Pirate Smile]

56. When Harkin ran, everyone skipped Iowa so it was completely irrelevant.

[ginnyinWI]

38. good points

especially point 2. Let them "chew" on Hillary for a while, then get tired of her.

This latest poll, I think, is a poll only of Washington insiders. What do they know about how the people feel?

another thought to ponder: How will Kerry handle the Swiftie Liars in a do-over?? I know he'll be more aggressive, but it's interesting to imagine just how.

[TayTay]

39. Couple of things

I watched the DNC meetings about the primaries and they were talking about how different the next election may be from 2004. Iowa may have a 'favorite son' running if Iowa Gov Vilsack runs for Pres. That means that Iowa would have zero influence (well, the race for second place, but that is not the same as the race for first place.)

I will find the Hillary Clinton may skip Iowa press piece. (Must have been in RollCall. When I am back at work I will access it.) The theory would probably be that she wants to deliver a knock out blow at a later primary. New Hampshire is friendly ground for the Clinton's (though it is getting friendlier to it's next store neighbor too. Kerry is credited with coattails in Nh that affected the Govs race. But Lynch has to run again in 2006. We shall see.)

The smear of the Corsi/O'Neill rats has largely dissipated. (The ones who still believe it are mostly folks who would never vote for Kerry anyway.) That would be of the past. I think he overcomes all the crap about last time by doing what he is doing, fighting for his issues and standing up for America. That shows the contrast with the current admin, which is full of liars and wimpy bastards who are hell bent on selling out the working class.

[Dr Ron]

42. Kerry should blow out the Swift Boat Liars

Hopefully he could do something major between now and 2008 to totally discredit them. If not, most likley he'll be ready with tons of evidence the first time they speak up.

It might be best to take them on before 2008 to try to keep it out of the news during an election battle when it would be distracting again.

There were rumors of suing them for libel afer the 2004 election. That would be great if he could win, but disasterous if he lost a suit. My fear is that it would be extremely difficult to win a libel suit for charges raised during a political campaign even if shown to be untrue.

[politicasista]

44. I agree

They won't go away cause the media will give them all the time they want. I wish Kerry would take care of these slimy men. They are scary. :scared:

[LittleClarkie]

50. The comment about johnkerry.com seems like a non-issue

It has been up and running for a while, not just as a Prez site, but also for his Senate campaign. So it was no surprise that it continues.