Did you se this story on Yahoo.news

[TayTay]

Poll: Voters Staunchly back Bush, Kerry
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050108/ap_on_el_pr/unwavering_voters_1

I particularly liked this paragraph:

The poll of 8,664 adults who had already been interviewed once before Election Day showed little evidence of the opposing sides coming together after the election. More than eight in 10 Kerry voters did not agree with the statement: "Even though I voted for John Kerry, George Bush (news - web sites) will probably be a good president in his second term."

I thought this was interesting news. Despite what you see at DU, Kerry is not being singled out (in particular) for the loss. And Rethugs have NOT been able to get the public to believe the 'madate' nosense that * was spouting after the election last year.

Interesting stuff.

[TayTay]

1. Oh, and more nice pics

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050108/481/dam10401081556

Check this out. The caption says:

The 13-year-old Syrian Mustafa al-Nabulsi approaches the U.S. former presidential candidate Senator John Kerry (news - web sites), a democrat from Massachusetts, to give him a drawing in which al-Nabulsi portrayed Kerry in his military uniform when he was a soldier in Vietnam on Saturday, Jan. 8, 2004 in Damascus following his talks with Syrian Foreign Minister Farouk al-Sharaa on Iraq (news - web sites), the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the U.S.-Syria strained bilateral relations. Kerry, who arrived in Damascus on Friday, met earlier in the day with Syrian President Bashar Assad. (AP Photo/ Bassem Tellawi).

Syrians for Kerry!

[whometense]

3. Love it!!!

My president.

[vinessa4freedom]

8. his huge hands wrapped around

that tiny cup. I have tears in my eyes. I'm feeling a tremendous urge to up and move to Mass. right now. Got room?

[whometense]

9. oh yeah.

We will always make room for more Kerrycrats. :-)

[vinessa4freedom]

10. actually...

my husband is tremendously unhappy with his job right now and he's looking around. I could slip a few brochures in his mail pile. :)

[whometense]

13. great idea.

I love living here. Housing is ridiculously expensive though.

[TayTay]

18. Ain't that the truth

Mass is nice. We have pretty scenary, great beaches, two capes (Ann & Cod) the Berkshires and so forth.

But it costs a shitload of money to live here. This is not good. Many people are worried their kids will have to move in order to ever have housing. That's why Southern NH is booming, better housing prices.

[whometense]

19. A lot of people I know

consider their house as their kids' inheritance. No joke. Our house has appreciated something like 300% since we bought it 12 years ago. Absurd.

[vinessa4freedom]

24. a lot of old money there

but so beautiful. I got a New England scenics calendar and keep daydreaming.

[TayTay]

35. Not so much

There used to be actual Boston Brahmins, but they are extinct. A Brahmin was someone with inherited money made during the days when Boston (and Salem) were huge shipping, whaling and trading ports. A Brahmin didn't work and lived frugally on the money that an ancestor made. These folks were pillars of the community and set community standrds. In the late 1800's and early 1900's.

There are no Brahmins left in Boston. If there are any Brahmins left, they are consigned to horsey country in Dunstable and Ipswich and Manchester-By-The-Sea and that horsey place on the North Shore whose name escapes me at the moment. (I know a great gardener who gets his, ah, fertilizer from that horsey place whose name escapes me.)

Sen. Kerry has Brahmin roots, but he is not really a Brahmin. His family on his mothers side goes back aways, but he is second generation on his fathers side. No respectable Brahmin was ever co-mingled with immigrants. (That's why they are now extinct.)

[vinessa4freedom]

40. I was under the impression

that a fair amount of "old money" was in the Boston area. I hate to be ignorant. Thank you for the info--TayTay are you a history professor? The wealth of information you posses, particularly about your state is phenomenal. You do it justice.

[TayTay]

51. I am a geeky love of history

I have loved American history ever since I was a kid. I had a lot of courses in history of Boston and history of MA. Since then, it's been a hobby. I love Massachusetts and it's strange, noble, funny, angry, political and (for me) lovable history. I guess it began because the town I was born into and raised in (and that my mother and grandfather lived in) was very historical, with good and the legendarily bad. (This points to what occured long ago in my home town: http://etext.virginia.edu/salem/witchcraft/Commemoration.html. You go by that stuff every day, have in inclination to history and see if you don't start finding interesting things. Btw, my Dad's buried about 1/4 of a mile from this memorial.)

That said, the most wonderful thing I can think of in traveling is to be shown the sites by a native who loves their home. I love MA, and I adore hearing from other people what they love about their own home towns (born into or adopted.) It's just so much more refreshing and interesting to see a place through the eyes of someone who loves it. One of the best tours I ever had was from a cousin living in the great state of California, who took me up and down the coast, stopping at interesting places here and there for a lecture and a tour. Loved it.

[vinessa4freedom]

54. cool site

I bookmarked it to read through when I have time, which hopefully will be before school starts on the 24th. I was a pathetic underachiever in my youth, and seem to have gotten possessed in the other direction. Completely anal retentive about my studies now.

[WildEyedLiberal]

55. So if I ever come to MA

Do I get a TayTay tour?

[TayTay]

57. Yes.

Wipe your feet.
I can give you several tours, spooky NE, Weird freakin people tours, and the personal tour of where we stashed my dead ancestors. (Ahm, it's a long story. Some of them ain't where they were supposed to be.)

Come on over and I'll even take you to Sacred Ground, the tour of Fenway Park!

[WildEyedLiberal]

59. Sweet!

You know, I may take you up on that someday.

[whometense]

62. Yes.

I grew up in Acton, a hop skip and jump away from the Concord Bridge. I practically grew up at that bridge, and when I was a kid every Patriot's Day the entire town reenacted the Minutemen's march from Acton to Concord to fight the first battle of the Revolutionary War.

We were just steeped in it. The town library had a case that displayed the musket and bloody neck scarf of Capt. Isaac Davis of Acton, who was the first man killed in the official war. Or so they told us impressionable tykes.

Salem's really got some really amazing stories to tell.

[TayTay]

65. I love the quirkiness of Salem

The City Elders are trying to de-emphasize the out and out selling of the Witchcraft stuff now. (It is a bit on the tawdry side. I mean this was not a really stellar episode in MA history. It highlights that we were once a theocracy, that you really shouldn't try theocracy again and well, people died.) I love Cape Ann history, Gloucester in particular. Lots of strange stuff up there.

I have a lifelong love of the history of the Colonial and early American period in history. I have been to the Concord Bridge many times and I stilll get a little thrill thinking about what happened there so long ago.

"By the rude bridge, that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once embattled farmers stood,
and fired the shot heard round the world."

Sigh! We do have an interesting history, when you think about it.

[vinessa4freedom]

22. NY is far worse in property tax

than in real estate. Those ads that Pataki says "I love New York" in, should really say "I tax New York"

And our sales tax is 8.25% x(

[angrydemocrat]

27. You think that's bad?

Here in shitty Tennessee it is 9.25% LOL

[vinessa4freedom]

28. are you serious?

Holy crap! I thought we were in it deep.

Congrats on over 1000 posts!:toast: I wondered if I would hit the bicentennial, but I've posted a lot more than usual the last week or so. I'm still not great at sitting still, though. It's the computer, acually. I spend long periods writing, but I do everything freehand first.

[whometense]

2. Thanks TayTay.

Perspective is very valuable. We need to keep reminding ourselves that DU is not the country, and vice versa!

[GRLMGC]

5. Thank God for that nt

[Pirate Smile]

4. I've seen articles about how unlike other elections, Kerry wasn't really

getting most of the blame laid at his feet for these election results which will definitely help him in the future.

[vinessa4freedom]

6. it is easy to get wrapped up in the hub

of the infighting. I'm so glad the dems at large are still backing the man.

[JI7]

7. The Republicans had a better organization and increased their turnout

in the past the percentage of turnout had more democrats than republicans. of course not all dems or reps vote party line. and because of dixiecrats more dems are likely to crossover than republicans. but with independents and others and the fact there are more democrats to begin with it kind of balances out.

but in this election the percentage of republicans to come out and vote was equal to the percentage of democrats. this gave republicans an advantage.

the republicans had started their get out the vote effort right after the 2000 elections. they knew it was close and they did not assume bush would carry every state he did then.

we didn't start our gotv until after kerry became the nominee. so republicans had about 4 years while we had under 1 year.

polls showed that kerry did win the independents and the undecideds mostly went to him in the last minute. but as this article shows, most voters had already made up their minds so these people were a small percentage.

but the election was still close enough that as i said in another thread if Kerry's campaign had mentioned his record more it would have brought more swing voters to his side and put him over the top.

[TayTay]

15. Last year was so up and down

I really think that the Rethugs understood their market and brand and managed to keep to their PR strategy. They had a particular product to sell that had some advantages and disadvantages and they managed to blunt the disadvantages while at the same time promoting a sense of brand loyalty among their core markets. (Sorry, but they are all such corporate whores that the business language makes sense.)

The rethugs were able to successfully tap into the Christian unease over change in the world and successfully positioned their guy as the steady force maintaining order in the face of chaos. (don't have to rehash how gruesomely wrong that was because I am among friends.) The Russian school massacre reinforced the idea that the world is under attack and dnagerous and we need an iron fist to put down this kind of thing.

The Dems need to develop consistency in their message. There was a story about the liberal commentator on (heavens) Faux News who wanted to know what the Tallking Points from DemCentral were after the SmearBoat Liars ads first came out. There weren't any. This cannot happen again, ever. It is inexcusable. We cannot win without maintaining a consistent message and without getting that message out to our supporters. (I do have hope for reform and for getting more grassroots people involved. I would have loved, loved to have gotten an e-mail message that told me what the major refutations of the Liars story were. I would have sent it to everyone I know.)

[whometense]

17. I agree with you

about the talking points. I was often infuriated by the lack of support the dems gave Kerry on air. Since we have an uphill battle with the corporate media to start with, we need to be twice as organized underground - i.e. online.

The Jan. 6 challenge could be a roadmap, I think, for how such dem activism could work. People are willing to be on message in pursuit of a goal, and the guys in charge ought to be using that as of right now!

[TayTay]

20. So true!

We cannot get the fringe voters without a convincing argument. We have to put out offensive and defensive positions that fit on a flyer. (More extensive and fully developed stuff can be on the web site to satisfy the Democratic need to be wonky. Nothing wrong with that, said she who is very wonky. But we have to have bullet points as an enticement to read the other stuff.)

[JI7]

23. yes , one of the things is that Republicans just repeat the same crap

over and over again. and democrats do criticize Bush and talk up Kerry but it's always different things. specific criticisms should be reserved for mostly issue specific forums and policy type forums.

but for reaching out to the masses who don't pay attention closely deliver a few consistent lines . i thought one of the best was bill clinton's "send me" speech. and i wish they had used that.

the republicans never gave specifics. all they did was repeatedly call kerry a flip flopper no matter what. they never explained how. they just kept saying it. and they kept saying the asshole was a leader who wont back down and other shit. they never gave specifics on why he is such a good leader. they just said it.

of course the right wingers also have the media on their side to spew out their propaganda. but it's not impossible for us. it's just a barrier we have to put up with.

[Pirate Smile]

43. That was Susan Estrich who ran Dukakis' campaign. She said it gave

her chills because it reminded her of their terrible August when Dukakis lost his lead because they didn't counter all the Poppy Bush attacks. The Bush Family runs the nastiest campaigns and Georgie learned from Atwater in his Daddy's campaign. Obviously he didn't learn from Atwater's mea culpa and change of heart on his deathbed.

[angrydemocrat]

11. I hadn't seen this article

Which I like you find interesting. But I have found that people other than DU for the majority do NOT blame Kerry for what happen in this last election and plan to support and fight for him again in 2008. So we may at times seem like the minority because we are here but let tell you guys we are from being the minority. And someone said it is to early to talk about 2008 well I respectfully disagree with them on that. Because I think it is clearly obvious that Kerry will run again and I think he has the support to do it and I think we all need to be better prepared to fight this fight coming up. Kerry has work all his life to see the day that he was actually president and him being the fighter and true believer and patriot in all he sets out to due I don't think he will quit now. He will not quit till his dreams become reality and I intend to be there to help him make them a reality. And I think his family want to see his dreams become reality as well and I think they will encourage him to make his dreams a reality. And Kerry has more people that are loyal supporters than what some think and they are ready to battle the same as we are.

[TayTay]

12. Remenber the speechs on Jan 6th

The rethugs were forced to concede that Kerry was gracious and dignified in defeat and they were maneuvered into praising him. (In order to denouce the recount protests. Strange tactic.) Interesting stuff.

[whometense]

16. That was, to say the least,

a disconcerting display. :-)

Cognitive dissonance to the nth degree.

Same thing that happened with the debates - the more people are forced to compare Kerry's actions with the total BS the repugs were spewing about him, the better he looks. Four years of this can go a long way towards making him the president-in-waiting (and god knows if * lasts four more years, by then we will need JK desperately...)

[angrydemocrat]

26. Yes And I Might Add

I enjoyed the repukes having to say nice things about our man I know that was so hard for them to do LOL!

[Pirate Smile]

44. We can recite those words back to them when he starts slamming them

upside the head when he gets back.

[ginnyinWI]

29. that was my favorite part

They had to give due respect to Kerry for being the gentleman and statesman that he is. :)

[whometense]

14. Yes, ma'am!!

I'm signed up and ready to go. Whatever he needs, I'm there.

[TayTay]

21. See ya later

Whometense. Gotta go do mundane houseworky things. Bck on later tonight!

Have fun!

[whometense]

25. Yeah, me too!

Got one load of laundry in, and now I have to vacuum. I hate vacuuming. :evilfrown:

See you later!

[JohnKleeb]

30. Most of the folk Ive talked to in school havent bitched about Kerry at all

They're disappointed that the country was really that stupid to vote Bush.

[vinessa4freedom]

31. they weren't

they were just stupid enough to believe that the country voted for bush. I think one of the problems is that a lot of Kerry voters don't want to believe that the election was a great big fraud. That is almost worse than believing the country voted for bush. Its true, but the truth is just too much for a lot of people.

[whometense]

32. Interesting comment.

Not that it makes any difference either way what I think,but since Nov. 2 I've been bouncing back and forth in my head which would be worse - that the election was stolen? or that more 'muricans thought * was the better man :shrug:

No good choices there. I still don't know which I think is worse. Or better. But I believe in my bones that it was stolen.

[vinessa4freedom]

33. ah it was, I fear

whometense. The exit polls and all the discrepencies. It's a mess. They covered themselves so well with an uncheckable system. I heard stories from 2 election workers one in Ohio, one in Florida at a media protest last month. They were just two of many many many. I believe it was stolen, too.

Just the vibes I get from a lot of Kerry voters, that shake their heads at the "loss" but look at it as just that.

[TayTay]

34. No way

I don't believe the Rethuglican Congress has any impetus to hear or act on this evidence at all. They don't care. They won, so the system works. Democrats cannot, under any circumstances, let this go. It is a violation of everything the Democratic party stands for. Just because I believed that the recent action would not overturn the national election doesn't mean I don't believe fraud happened.

It is an outrage to have people stand in line 10 hours to vote. There is compelling evidence that this was by design as were so many disgusting pre-planned things that prevented Americans from casting legal votes. The actions the Dems took to at least bring these issues to a floor discussion were highly laudable and a good start. Kerry's letter is a good start.

There was news this week about an arrest in the Civil Rights era murder in 1964 of Goodman, Cheney and Schwerner. This is one of the things they died defending. The right of all Americans to vote. That we still have these types of things makes me sick to my stomach and so angry I just want to break things. I must channel that anger to productive means.

[whometense]

36. I call that the most astounding news item

of the week, by far. After all these years.

It makes me feel sick, but I think anger is a more productive reaction. I'm still easing into 24/7 politics and need to take breaks. The rethugs just nauseate me. I hate liars, and I hate smug liars more.

[vinessa4freedom]

37. don't think I don't agree with you TayTay

the whole sordid mess is going to be exposed. It must be. It's unfortunate that fellow dems are among those needing to be convinced, but they are there.

[TayTay]

58. A little perplexed on this

I think election fraud occurred. I want an investigation and I want it exposed and I want something done about it. I never believed that the 2004 election would be overturned because entrenched power interests wouldn't allow it. The investigation will have to be done through alternative channels. But I want that investigation to go forward.

Where do we disagree?

Edit PS: Never be afraid to disagree with me. I am rarely, ahm seldom, ahm, occasionally, okay often wrong. Disagreeing with me is a good thing,cuz I get to learn something.

[vinessa4freedom]

63. We do agree

I'm sorry I can't disagree with you yet, TayTay. :) I read your post as you thinking I didn't believe the election was fraudulent.

I do tend to be something of an arguer, but in the JK group, I tend to agree with lots of people. Go figure. I promise if I disagree with you, I'll say so, LOL.

[Withywindle]

49. Really?

I didn't hear about that--about the arrest in the 1964 murders. Do you have a link? (Personal connection: when I was in college, the Dean of Students was Steve Schwerner, who'd been a civil rights worker too and was the brother of one of the victims. He didn't like to talk about it much, except he blasted that movie "Mississippi Burning" in some newspapers for making the FBI out to be the good guys.)

They re-opened the Emmett Till case a couple of years ago too.

Horrifying how long justice can be denied.

[whometense]

60. Here's a link:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?050117ta_talk_goldberg

and here's NPR audio: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4275568

[angrydemocrat]

66. KICK

:kick:

[Siyahamba]

38. Same here.

I still see a lot of Kerry buttons on backpacks and bumperstickers on vehicles.

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. Mine still proudly adorn my car and backpack and purse

Kerrycrat till I die.

[TheDonkey]

41. America is very divided. People out there still love Kerry

I still see plenty of Kerry signs and bumperstickers out there.

[vinessa4freedom]

42. My in-laws took a trip

last week, and they said they saw many Kerry/Edwards signs up and bumper stickers on the NYS thruway. Not too many wanger ones either. Very good sign of the times. I'm going to take heart from that.

[angrydemocrat]

45. America Is Full Of Kerrycrats

That is for sure. If he runs in 2008 he will win and I truly believe that and even willing to bet on it. Americans want John Kerry as their next leader!

[New Earth]

46. he's got to 'pound' the Bush admin if he wants to win

and it's something i can see him doing. he's got to tear them down like he's done in other situations in his past, and i think that will have a strong effect on voters if he were to run again. there are plenty of people who are pissed off and let down by Kerry for what happened in this election. I think one way he can earn their respect back is by taking on this administration for what it is.

[angrydemocrat]

47. He Will

You can take that to the bank. I have said many times on this forum that the daytime soap operas need to be finding them a new time slot because if they don't they will all be losing rating this year. Because Americans are going to be tuned in to the real soap opera that will be performed live on the Senate floor. And it will be a damn good one and once people start to watch they will be hooked big time! I personally can't wait for the show to get started! It will be great and C-SPAN ratings will sky rocket over it. You wait and see. To many people are waiting, anxious, and ready for action. Kerry will be the star of the show. I have no doubt in my mind about that! Kerry is a star to many anyway but he will be to alot of others when he gets going. Because so many have never really seen this man in action like some of us have that kept up with him long before this last election ever existed. I can say they are in for a great one.

[whometense]

61. I agree.

He comes across all easygoing and nice, but tick him off at your peril. The man is a bulldog.

[ginnyinWI]

48. I agree with that--he's got to pound the opposition

Maybe they were too cautious about that this time--afraid people would see him as too negative. He did well at the end, but didn't get personal enough, early enough for me. I kept waiting for him to call Bush on this or that thing that happened, but he only did so indirectly.

But at the end, he knew he had huge support and could go after Bush with abandon--he knew we were behind him on it. I fault the campaign handlers for not letting him do it before. It was always "stay positive".

I remember him quoted as saying that he felt let "out of a box" when he finally was able to blast Bush with both barrels late in the campaign. He gave those great speeches on Iraq and on Terrorism in that one week, and Biden was on stage for the last one, and afterward shook his hand vigorously and said, "you nailed it,buddy, you nailed it." That was how it should have been all through the campaign!

edited to add:
...and I agree that he should keep after Bush right now. Say the things we all are thinking when bad stuff goes down. Call him on all of his missteps, and offer his advice--let the voters who voted for smirkyboy know that there was a better option out there!

[angrydemocrat]

50. And As I Said He Will

Do you really and truly believe this man won't? Do you think he is ready to give up now after all he has been through and all the nasty attacks about him and his family? Well I certainly don't. The way I see it is this man is madder than hell right now over alot of what just happen it may not show all the time because he is a senator and for the most part cannot say what he truly wants to say. But this man is a fighter and he is out for revenge so to speak. He by in No way is ready to quit and let these bastards go around bragging and continuing to destroy this country. This man will not stop until he gets the job done and gets where he intends to go. He has proven over and over in the past that he won't give up the fight until he prevails. And that isn't going to change now. It is all part of the man and in his blood and one of the reasons people have been inspired by him and respect as much as they do. My friends we have have a true fighter and leader when it comes to John Kerry!

[ginnyinWI]

52. I know he will! I believe! n/t

[angrydemocrat]

53. True Kerrycrats We Are!

I wish others had as much faith in him as we do. Instead of having doubts the way they do. I think Kerry will change those doubts pretty quick once he gets started. Then they will wonder why their ever had doubts to start with. We have alot of true believers yet we have some that have doubts so I can't wait for Kerry to nip them doubts in the butt.

[TheDonkey]

56. I agree, Kerry has some work to do if he wants to be in the WH for 08

he'll have to work hard these next four years getting positive media coverage, blasting bush goons, and accomplishing powerful legislation.

I'm sure he can do it, there is just a matter if he is going to do it. I REALLY hope he does cause he would make an incredible president.

All he needs to do is build some of the burnt bridges and create more positive buzz around him.

[angrydemocrat]

64. You Have To Have Faith And Believe!!!

John Kerry will be our next president and you can take that to the bank. I'm willing to bet anyone who don't believe that. John knows what has to be done and has always done what needed to be done and he won't stop now. Some may not always agree with how he approaches things or how he went about them but they sure enjoyed the results when the man finished. Not saying John has never made a mistake because he is human just like the rest of us and makes mistakes like any other human. But John admits his mistakes, fixes the mistake, and most importantly he learns form his mistakes. Unlike the illiterate dumbass that is a occupier at the White House who wouldn't admit to a mistake to save his life for the fear it might hurt his bullshit ego much less fix or learn from them. John Kerry is a real leader, with real ambition and courage, and with real plans and visions for all Americans and America itself. My friend John Kerry don't need know positive buzz he is the positive buzz! John Kerry will be there for America and its people just as he has always been there.

"FOR AMERICA, THE HOPE IS THERE. THE SUN IS RISING. OUR BEST DAYS ARE STILL TO COME!!"