Please don't flame me but I've thought about the DNC chairmanship

[GRLMGC]

and I think Dean would make a good chairman. In spite of his weaknesses as a candidate, I think he's an aggressive spokesperson. I think we need aggressiveness because the passivity the DNC has displayed in the past four or five years is obviously not working. He's pretty no nonsense when talking to the mediawhores which is awesome and maybe he can get surrogates to stay on message. Just my thoughts. Any opinions?

P.S. I know his supporters tend to be assholes (not all, just some) but that shouldn't cast a shadow on the man himself.

[JI7]

1. many Kerry supporters want Dean for DNC Chairman

personally i just don't have any strong opinions about any and will accept whoever it is.

if you want to support Dean i think he said you can write letters to democratic officials in your state as a way to try to help him get it.

you can write up a post in the gd politics forum for why you support Dean for Chair if you want.

[GRLMGC]

2. I was planning on writing a letter

I just wanted to post my opinion here because I don't want there to be this huge divide. I know the Dean supporters really turn off a lot of people here. They certainly turn me off.

[seito]

3. I don't have a strong opinion about this

I have to be honest, I am not familiar with most of the people in the running. The only thing I find disturbing is the "Dean worship" that seems to be going on around DU. It is creepy. :scared:

[Pirate Smile]

42. He doesn't want people to write letters unless you know them personally.

Nobody likes to feel pressured and getting flooded with mail can be annoying.

Just an FYI. Someone posted it yesterday.

[GRLMGC]

43. Good point

Well, then. I guess there's nothing I can do.

[sandnsea]

4. I don't care really

I think he'd be forced to deal with the reality of the differences in Democratic views across the country, which would in turn force alot of lefties to deal with that reality. We've already seen it with his comments on abortion. It's one thing to criticize, it's another to deal with 30 red state party heads screaming at you because you said something that turned off half of THEIR base. My thoughts,
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=212

[GRLMGC]

5. This is true

but Dean is pretty moderate. I don't see where his lefty supporters are getting their information from or if they are just talking out their asses. I'm sure he'd work w/ other Dems and piss of his supporters at the same time. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out

[sandnsea]

19. Of course he's moderate

If moderate Dean shows up as DNC chair, he won't be all that much different from Roemer!

[GRLMGC]

21. Uh

Roemer lost me w/ his antichoice position. I know there shouldn't be a litmus test but that's unacceptable to me, personally.

[JohnKleeb]

23. understandable, Roemer also seems fucky on preserving social security

is fucky a word?

[sandnsea]

30. Well it is now!

I agree and we certainly don't need somebody who is "fucky" right now. I wonder what Dean has said about privatization in the past. Considering everything else that came out in the primaries, it wouldn't surprise me if he'd been wishy-washy on that too.

[JohnKleeb]

36. I dont know

Gephardt was critical of the fact that he had supported cutting medicare in the past and called it a bad program. I wouldn't be surprised honestly if he had supported privatization in the past. I dont know who I want for DNC head but please let them not be fucky.

[sandnsea]

26. Oh I understand

It was mostly a little joke there. Still, I bet when you compare positions over the last 10-15 years, there wouldn't be much difference between Roemer and Dean. Pre-primary Dean, not current lefty Dean. That's always been my biggest problem with Dean, what would he really do, in the end.

[JohnKleeb]

29. That always confused me too

Well Dean unlike Roemer has been without question pro choice.

[GRLMGC]

31. I see your point

I still see Dean, not so much in terms of his positions, but rather his ability to change the perception of the Democratic Party in the public eye. He's great in the media when talking to the media whores because he doesn't bow down to their crap.

[paulk]

37. that's the root of my problems with Dean also

I judge people, especially politicians, by what they do, not what they say - and there's a huge credibility gap there with Dean.

I backed Kerry because he was the most liberal candidate running - and it was very weird to see Howard pick up the progressive mantle during the primaries. Cognitive dissonance type weird.

Many people back Dean because he's "willing to take a stand, to say what he means, etc." But, when you actually look at what he's said - and especially what he's done... it doesn't add up.

[JohnKleeb]

38. that is confusing which is why it was weird for me to see

Dean supporters calling Kerry a moderate, I was like wha? this guy has a simliar record to liberal democrat icon, Teddy Kennedy, he's more moderate on trade and a little hawkish but pretty damn simliar to Ted Kennedy,

[JohnKleeb]

22. haha

I always thought that the dems who were against Dean in the primaries, the wise thing to do was to attack him from the left, Gephardt did that well on health care issues, and that of course earned him the hatred of many of them, Kerry did the same too, that bushlite moderate gasp said he wanted to be the candidate of the NAACP not the NRA.

[JI7]

9. look at what happened with Kerry

in North Carolina, the home state of our VP Candidate the Democratic Governor refused to appear anywhere with Kerry. Kerry did praise him all the time as he did with many other democrats who did not want to be associated with him. But it's because Kerry understood the politics of those areas and did not take any of it personally.

in Indiana there was a little controversy over something so small and stupid as whether the Democratic Governor would greet Kerry at the airport when he came to the state to speak to a large southern baptist african american convention.

in Colorado Ken Salazar kept his distance from Kerry through most of the campaign and only made one appearance towards the end with him and in a mostly Latino area which supported Kerry anyways.

and if you saw the Senate debates on cspan and meet the press you saw how all the Republican candidates from red states would attack their opponents by bringing up Kerry."john kerry democrat" was often used. the democratic candidates never brought up Kerry's name. they would just respond by stressing how independent they are.

[GRLMGC]

10. It's a nasty business. nt

[JohnKleeb]

12. yes, why I dont wanna get involved with it that deep

I'd love to see the purer than thou handle it.

[GRLMGC]

13. They can't

Unfortunately, idealism won't get you very far in Washington D.C.

[JohnKleeb]

14. you can be idealistic and pragmatic of course

Well there was one idealistic guy in Washington, wasnt there, Mr. Smith but alas that was a movie :).

[JohnKleeb]

11. Yes that happens in politics sometimes

Really brought people down in 1994 a lot because the republicans would have the then unpopular Clinton come and some democrats would keep their distance from Clinton.

[sandnsea]

18. Exactly

In fact, that's what that whole piece I wrote was about. It would be great if you'd post your comments over on the blog. It just floors me when pundits point to particular candidates and say "he won", but ignore the fact that they ran away from the national candidate and in alot of cases, the entire national platform. So we've got all these blue state die-hard liberals who are still in denial about what it's going to take to become a national party again. I don't think we need to change our basic principles, but we've got to figure out the values and beliefs behind our principles and explain how society will be better if we do things our way.

[JohnKleeb]

6. Nothing wrong with that

I dont endorse anyone for the job, my main problem with Dean is that he plays the role of a leftist dem but is in reality quite centrist. Thats why I didnt like him as a candidate but he has shown an ability to raise money and be an outspoken voice which could serve him well as DNC head, I also have a problem with people saying "I wont support the dems if Dean isnt DNC chair."

[GRLMGC]

7. Yeah, well

those supporters will be in for a rude awakening if he becomes head. He'll have to work w/ various Dems w/ different opinions which will make their head explode.

[JohnKleeb]

8. yep

I read an article about it today in the post, he clearly says I am a centrist in a centrist party, funny how they hate all centrist dems but him.

[angrydemocrat]

15. I really don't matter to me who gets the DNC chair

I personally will be glad when that part of the equation is over. But if Dean wins it might shut some of these fools up around here. That would be a good thing in itself. But really truth is even if he wins these people will whine and scream and continue to have their major shitstorms. The reason I believe that is because Dean is not a far left liberal like all these fools make him out to be, in fact he is more of a moderate than Kerry is. Not that there anything wrong with it or Dean the point is these fools will not be satisfied if he wins and once he gets started.

I don't know if these fools are just too lazy, or too dumb, or just flat out don't want to find out the truth about Dean but he is not the man these fools make him out to be. And you watch and see if he wins the DNC chair it won't be no time and Mr.YEEEARRGH himself will become target practice for these fools. Sooner or later these fools will have to face the truth about Dean even if it takes the truth slapping them right smack dab in the face. And when it happens you wait and see if I'm not right Mr.YEEEARRGH will be the center of the shitstorm and major target practice for these fools. But honestly it doesn't matter to me who wins.

[JohnKleeb]

16. He is honest about being more moderate

"The democratic party is moderate, and I am a moderate in that party", he says something like that in the Washington Post article about him.

[angrydemocrat]

24. Almost All Democrats

Are moderates in some way or another including Kerry. Not everyone agree's on everything including Democrats. You can take any issue you want and lay it on the table and with everyone on that issue you will have Democrats that are more to the left on the issue, then you will have those that are more center of the issue, and you have those that are more right of the issue. Either way they are all Democrats and don't have the samn beliefs as repukes on the issue. It is still all one party of Democrats but getting others to except that is another. Getting people to understand that all Democrats are not the same and don't have to be in order to be a part of the party is your major challenge.

[bunny planet]

17. I agree, why would you get flamed for saying so. Dean has his heart in

the right place and his aggressiveness is just what's needed now. Let's hope he takes no prisoners and sticks to the reputation he has for speaking truth to power. We need a bulldog in the DNC leadership position.

[GRLMGC]

20. I saw him talking to Paula Zahn (whom I dislike)

and he was great. He didn't let her get away w/ her usual bullshit like I've seen others do.

[angrydemocrat]

33. To Tell The Truth About It

Dean is not the one people have problems with it is his nutty cult supporters that people have the problem with. Sometimes people get so sick of tired of all these fools that they do at times take it out on Dean but the reality is it's not Dean they have the problem with. I for one have been guilty of doing so just the same as others but the problem as I said isn't Dean it's all all his cult followers. But I am in no way saying I agree with Dean on everything because I don't that's for sure. All I'm saying is alot of the anger that comes out of people is not always intended to be directed at Dean but instead at his cult followers. All Dean supporters aren't a part of the cult either you do have those who have a brain. But these nuts do make people think twice about supporting Dean for anything, for fear the cult will grow and get bigger. That's what the real problem is not Dean.

[sandnsea]

39. Honestly

I have problems with Dean. Like I said above, I don't know what he really believes. He seems to be too influenced by left wing bloggers and I'm never sure if he's saying things just to appeal to them and keep their support, or whether he really believes what he's saying. Like when he talked about Bush letting 9/11 happen, or capturing Saddam didn't make the world safer. He could have said only Bush could remove a tyrant and create a bigger mess, but he didn't. He seems to repeat left wing rhetoric and I don't know if he's even able to think for himself anymore. I suspect he did in Vermont, but the ego can play funny tricks on people. If he were to get in there and just settle down and quit swinging to the extremes, maybe he'd be okay.

[Withywindle]

25. No flames here...

..I think he'd be an excellent choice for that position too. He's very good at motivating and organizing people, that's for sure.

I LIKE Dean. It's just his rabid cultists I can't take, and they might be muffled a little if he gets a real mainstream job and isn't their perfect "outsider" martyr-prophet anymore. He's not lefty enough for me really, but policy doesn't matter so much in the DNC chair position, and I love the way he can reach out to people.

[JohnKleeb]

27. right, the fact he's not lefty enough really has no impact

so I dont have a problem with it.

[paulk]

28. I'm not sure that being a spokesperson should be the

main job of the chairman. Dean can fill that role as head of the DFA. I mean, we already have spokespeople - we've got Kerry,...Dean, Pelosi, Reid, etc. All of our elected dems are spokespeople.

Also, Dean has the annoying habit of saying the wrong thing and pissing people in his own party off. We need someone to bring the party together, not divide it. Dean is a lightening rod - he's one of the most divisive people we've got. Just look at DU! (and it was much, much worse during the primaries)

As for his supporters - (a lot of them)- being assholes - I think that is a valid way to judge a candidate. Who you attract as supporters does reflect you, IMO. One of the things that drew me to the Kerry camp was the rationality of his supporters here at DU. And conversely, what turned me off to Dean initially were his supporters.

[GRLMGC]

32. I see your reasoning

However, in terms of being a spokesperson, the DNC (like it or not) is seen as the Democratic party and the DNC chair represents the Democratic party. I've seen McAullife so many times on TV and I just wanna throw crap because I don't see him as effective. In fact, a lot of the Dems out in the media tend to appear weak whether they really are or not. I don't want someone who's timid. I'm not going to be really upset if someone else gets the job (Unless it's Roemer) but this is my personal preference for the job.

[paulk]

34. Roemer is a no go for me, too

But...

Do we really need our chair to be an attack dog? Look at the republicans - who's their chair? That milqtoast Mehlman. All he ever does it drone the RNC talking points like a robot. But he's an organizational genius - he gets it done at the grassroots level.

I agree we need better spokespeople, people willing to take on the Pubs; get in their face - maybe Dean is the guy to do that - that would seem to be his number one qualification. I just don't see Dean as a strong organizational guy - and I cite his campaign as proof of that.

DailyKos has been talking up the idea of a co-chairmanship - with Dean being the front person and Rosenberg being the organization dude. That would be a good solution, IMO.

[GRLMGC]

35. I like that idea

Doubt anyone would go for it but it seem very practical.

[Pirate Smile]

41. I like that idea too. I don't care what titles they give them but we

need everybody doing everything they can.

I hate the Dem v. Dem crap when we need everybody.

I don't want Roemer for DNC Chair by a long shot but I do want him in the Democratic Party.

[Pirate Smile]

40. I agree. I think it is actually a limited number of Dean supporters

that are so obnoxious they even turn off other Dean supporters.

They are not Dean or even a majority of his supporters, they are just LOUD and say anything they want without thinking.

You can support Dean and Kerry. It is in NO WAY mutually exclusive.

I don't get the terrible animosity but I wasn't here during the primaries until after NH so I missed those wars. When I got here there were Clark v. Edwards wars going on.

I think he would be a good chair and he would give a good boost of energy to the party. We really need a boost.

He will get a lot of press and we need it because we don't control anything.

Kerry will be a strong advocate in the Senate and get more press coverage as well, along with being a constant thorn in Shrub's side.

I appreciate that he has NOT bashed Kerry or any other Dems which is exactly what the chair should do - it is completely counterproductive and divisive. The journalists are doing everything they can to get him to do it but he won't.

[ginnyinWI]

44. No flames in the JK Group!

At least I hope not!

I think Dean is a clear communicator on TV--but I don't know enough about all the contenders to be the judge. I simply think that we need a spokesperson who wrangle those pundits!