Now in the Senate

[Inuca]

I started streaming on C-SPAN to see what will happen with ANWAR. Frist is talking about.... boy scouts!!

[Mass]

1. Starting now - Feingold speaking

Why is Feingold the first one to speak about that when Kerry has been leading the fight for years.

This is very disappointing. I certainly hope that Kerry will make a strong statement very soon.

[Inuca]

2. But what he says...

... is good, and the indignation is highly appropriate.

[Mass]

3. I could not agree more.

Just consider this as part of my irritation of seeing Kerry basically silent on these important issues even if he is very active in the background.

[Mass]

4. Stevens attacking Kerry indirectly by his reference to Tsongas

Says that Tsongas agreed with him (not sure if it is right) and because he left prematurely (and Kerry replaced him, though not said), the ANWR Bill is stopped.

[Inuca]

5. That's exactly what I was thinking..

... as I was listening to Stevens. I have created my own "classification" of republican senators while watching CSPAN whenever I get the chance this last year, and Stevens is very close to the very bottom of the pile. Wonderful taste in ties, though... (smiley surely not needed).

[fedupinBushcountry]

6. I'm surprised

he doesn't have his Hulk tie on.

[fedupinBushcountry]

7. I posted this earlier

on the ANWR thread. The House was in session till 6:00 a.m. this morning, I conked out at 3:30 a.m. I couldn't believe, or yes I could how corrupt the Republicans are.

The House went back in session at midnight last night. It was totally a sham.

I stayed up watching until about 3:30 a.m. They put another 42 pages on Avian flu that was not in the conference report and they told the Dems it would not be put in and it was in one of the bills, my God it was so confusing on what was put on what. I think it was the same bill as ANWR and it passed by 6 votes if I'm not mistaken.

The extra 42 pages was all for the sake of Pharmaceutical companies. So if you get a flu shot and you become ill or are damaged from it who knows know matter what medicine you take, you have to show the burden of proof, and if you can't do that you are not allowed to sue and their is no way to compensate for your injuries.

The Oil companies and Drug companies made out big today, the American people were put at the back of the line again.

The Dems stood strong there were some great speeches. Rep. Obey and Kucinich were right on top of all of it. The Defense bill had only been given out 1 hour before the vote over 1,000 pages, who knows what else
they slipped in.

Edited for additional info:

The Defense bill passed by a vote of 308-106

The rule to bring the conference bill to vote on passed by only 6.


You know they always say when will the Dems get a spine, I say when will the Repubs get one and stand up for the American people. We need to vote these bastards out next year, or else we will fall deeper in the hole of facism.

I am totally sick of all this corruption, it has never been this bad ever. :mad: :puke:

[karendc]

8. Fed Up

Yes, we all are...

January 7. town meetings. Check out actions at http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/event/

I wrote about this today at DCP blog.

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/

[MH1]

9. Something similar happened in PA - the backlash is instructive /effective

Can't post much now but this site tells the tale:

http://www.pacleansweep.com/

PA legislators pulled a dead-of-night massive pay raise for themselves. What they failed to predict was just how PISSED OFF their voters would be about it. One judge got bounced in Nov election - defeat of judge re-appointment was UNHEARD OF - and I believe many legislators may have real fear for their elections next year. Meanwhile, they voted recently to rescind the pay raise bill, so they are back where they would have been if they hadn't done anything, except their voters are still pissed.

Something to think about. Can we get US citizens that pissed off about what is being done here?

Just a thought...

On edit - the pay raise included judges, and apparently no legislators were up for re-election - that will be next year - so the voters took it out on the judges. The second judge on my ballot almost got bounced too, but apparently there was some effort to save her, and it did, just barely.

[Inuca]

10. I am a skeptic

so I doubt it, too arcane. Rules of the Senate, as Dorgan says right now, what better sleeping pill for most?

[MH1]

11. Maybe it's time

that we start grabbing Americans by the figurative scruffs of their necks and start shoving their faces in it.

"Boring"? Tough shit. You want to live in a democracy? Grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for it.

:rant:

(and I hope you know that rant sn't aimed at you. And I don't actually know how we do that. But I'm working on it. I'll have to check out what Karen posted about Jan. 7)

[Luftmensch067]

12. Right on, MH!

I've been getting more and more impatient with my so-called "liberal" friends who are not willing to do the work of learning what is going on, but who are the first to criticize "the Democrats in Washington." What you just wrote is exactly what I want to say to them!!!! I will look forward to your ideas (and everyone else's!) about how we go about improving the situation.

[MH1]

15. Yeah, it's really disappointing when

they can talk for hours about "American Idol" or the latest sports team, but if you talk about what goes on in congress their eyes glaze over. And sometimes there is even a snigger. "Eh, they're all corrupt..it just doesn't matter! But Howard Dean is one cool dude! He really tells it like it is!"

:puke:

Sigh. We've got to get their attention somehow though.

[karynnj]

13. I agree that is arcane. I really think the other issue he raised

which was that the Congress passed a huge tax cut for companies "re-patriating" their profits should be something that should anger people. I know Kerry did speak of the off shore companies and how they avoid taxation last year (and I think he's been against it almost as long as he's been in the Senate. But, as things get worse and money is scarcer and the deficit is higher, it would seem that this is really unfair.

He spoke of the huge number of companies all "headquartered" in one relatively small building in the Cayman Islands. All thsy had to do was declare a po box their headquarters. What is to stop all companies large enough to gain enough in tax savings to pay for a lawyer to set this up from doing it? It penalizes companies that play be the rules.

[MH1]

14. Exactly. Kerry is so right about so many things, and has been for so long.

In his speech at the b-day party he talked about the environment - he is trying to write a book about it, in his spare time, lol; which tells you something right there about what it means to him. That speech was uplifting and heartbreaking to me at the same time...I also came by my interest in politics via environmental issues, but as he spoke about, the environment is *so* important yet hardly paid attention to any more, with everything else going on.

And I know he gets it about the corporate stuff too. Big sigh...the lefty freepers have no idea what they are doing, when they attack Kerry.

[Mass]

16. They cant guess by themselves, sorry.

We know what Kerry stands for because we follow him. You cant ask people to know that if Kerry is staying silent and only fighting in the background.

Why is his website not updated? Why is he not talking on the Senate floor? We certainly know who is fighting on the other side: Stevens is basically the only one talking. On our side, a lot of people who basically do not care about environmental issues are talking about the rules and Kerry has been silent since this mornig (and silent as well on the NSA wiretapes).

You and I know he is fighting, but dont ask to those who dont particularly like Kerry to know. If he wants people to know he is fighting for that, he has to be in the limelight about these subjects.

[fedupinBushcountry]

17. He is on C-Span now

[Mass]

18. I missed him - When I tuned on Lautenberg was speaking

(great man), then Cantwell was answering questions.

OK - He is speaking now.

[kerrygoddess]

19. Suggestion

Good questions to post on the Dem Daily Forum. They will definately be seen by the right people there.

[Mass]

20. Done.

[kerrygoddess]

21. Good

I can start a question and concern category if neccessary.

[MH1]

34. Eh, they only have to look a little bit before

they start running off at the mouth with their bullshit.

Your point is somewhat true that the website could be better and that perhaps maybe he could be more visible on some things.

But in general I disagree. People should not be spouting crap about someone that they could easily do a little research and find it isn't true.

Short story: Back during the primaries, when the swift liars started their shit, I didn't know much about Kerry, and I didn't like what I was hearing. As a veteran, I found what they were saying compelling and disturbing. But did I go running around just repeating crap without checking it out first? NO. And I never spread what the swift liars were saying, because I checked out the facts first.

I realize (and rue) that many people do not respond by checking facts first. That's a bad deal for someone who claims to be a democrat, to do to a leading democrat like Kerry. Or Hillary, or Dean, or any of them. Even if someone isn't my favorite, I try to find out the facts and context about the bad things said about them.

And with the leaders of our party, we have a responsibility to know something about them before we start criticizing.

IMHO.

[Luftmensch067]

22. He is so amazing

I can't stop listening to the audio of the Council on Foreign Relations speech. The speech itself is great, but his delivery of it makes it transcendent. It seems to me that, in this instance, JK has reached a whole new level of conviction and eloquence. And, as others have pointed out, when he focuses his astute and knowledgeable attention in the question and answer period, he's even more impressive. I've been wishing I could make everyone I know listen to it, but then I realize that even then they might not be able to "hear" it...

[ginnyinWI]

23. oh, do you have that link (again)?

I saw that the other night, but was too busy to listen--now I can't find it. I've read it, but hearing it would be superb. ;)

[Luftmensch067]

24. TDD is the best link for the audio, I think!

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1399

I put it on audio CD so I could listen to it on my stereo and now I can't stop! :-)

[MH1]

26. Thanks for the link!

and thanks kg for posting the audio at TDD!

(downloading now...)

[Luftmensch067]

29. Watch out -- it's addicting! n/t

[ginnyinWI]

33. thanks! n/t

[Inuca]

25. So this is IT??

Did they just vote on the Defense Appropriations Bill with the ANWAR thing neatly tucked in? Or was it some procedural vote related to this? I was not paying much attention...

[Mass]

27. Nope, they did not.

The votes will occur on Wednesday. These were procedural votes only.

Can somebody who understand completely the procedure go on kos and GD and explain all that.

[MH1]

28. Okay, but:

Kerry said he would filibuster if ANWR was in the Defense bill.

I just watched him vote for cloture (or so I thought.)

????

Is ANWR out? What did I miss? With cloture approved, it goes to a roll call vote, right? So does that mean they weren't close enough to 60 for a filibuster? I still would have expected JK to vote No on cloture.

What am I missing?

(I was out for an hour and a half and just caught the cloture vote. I may have missed a lot.)

[Mass]

30. No, this was a motion to proceed, not for cloture

We missed something, that I know. The vote on the rules and the motion for cloture will come later, Wednesday, probably.

However, I dont understand everything perfectly, so if somebody can say with certainty what happened, please do so.

[Mass]

31. Here

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051219/pl_nm/energy_congress_dc;_ylt=Am0bwYZM98TsXI2.fzPPTuGyFz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

WEDNESDAY VOTE?

Democrats planned a procedural move on Wednesday to delete the ANWR language because it did not appear in original defense spending bill but was added later by House-Senate negotiators. Republicans are likely to defeat that move with a majority of 51 votes, according to aides.

Then, Democrats are expected to launch a filibuster to try and talk the bill to death. Republicans would need 60 votes to end debate and bring the bill to a vote.

[MH1]

32. Thanks. I'm still confused, but I trust JK.

It'll make sense in the end, I'm sure.

I'm not sure if the Daily Digest will be up on Thomas tomorrow morning, or not until later. We ought to be able to figure it out from that.