Should the Pope resign?

[AngryOldDem]

I, personally, think he has earned his rest.

Link to a discussion on LBN, of which DemBones has already taken part.

What do you think?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1220957

[DemBones DemBones]

1. I agree that he has more than done his part, so if

he chooses to resign, I'm fine with that. I don't think people should be calling on him to resign and those who want to discuss mandatory retirement ages for the papacy should take the issue up with the next pope.

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. I trust him to make the right decision.

By all accounts, his brain functions quite well, although his body has betrayed him. I firmly believe that his intelligence and the Holy Spirit will lead him to make the correct decision.

[happynewyear]

3. no Pope John Paul II should not resign

The pope goes down with the job. That is the way it works and always has worked.

I believe the pope's mind is still very sharp. Just because his body is failing him does not mean that his mind is gone as well.

Long live the Pope John Paul II.

I'll be praying for you John Paul II this Ash Wednesday!

:dem:

[DemBones DemBones]

4. Not even if he realizes he can't do his job any more?

I agree he should stay if he's able, of course, and I'm glad he has stayed on despite all the talk about him being old and frail. Age and infirmity are part of life and shouldn't be denied or hidden away.

[Matilda]

5. I'm not sure his mind is very sharp ....

for some years now when he's appeared in public, he very often looks
as if he doesn't know where he is - not surprising, given the drugs
he would be on for his Parkinson's, and who knows what else.

I am concerned that in fact the Curia are actually running things in
his name, and I don't particularly like them - arch-conservatives
for the most part, and would be more intent on holding on to their
own power than making changes for the good of the Church. I don't
think he presents a good image for the Church - when he appears to
be quite out of it, how can anything he says be taken seriously by
those outside the Church?

I would expect that with the election of the next pope, provision
will be made to deal with a situation in which the pontiff is unable
to carry out his duties with maximum efficiency.

[Padraig18]

6. A friend of ours is a neurologist, and he says...

He says that His Holiness' appearance is quite typical of someone with advanced Parkinson's, and that he knows tons of patients who share that same, blank look whose minds are still razor sharp. He finds the accounts of those who've met and talked with JP2 and found him to be mentally proficient credible.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. My mother-in-law had that "mask" look as

ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease) took over her body -- that's probably why she was first diagnosed as having Parkinson's disease. But her mind was clear until the last couple of days of her life, when she began having small strokes. I believe His Holiness is still "in there" behind the mask-like appearance of his face just as my MIL was "in there" behind her "mask."

To me, the photos of John Paul II with the dove that kept flying back in his apartment window showed his alertness to an unusual event. He also had the biggest smile I've seen from him in a long time, which I think reflected his amusement and delight in the bird's refusal to go along with papal plans. Those photos were taken on the Sunday afternoon just before he went to the hospital.

We rarely see him show much facial reaction because most photos of him are taken in the normal situations of his life, when he meets with dignitaries, speaks to the people in St. Peter's Square, or celebrates Mass. People who meet him in person say his eyes still sparkle and I've seen that sometimes in photos. He's aged and physically disabled but I don't doubt his mental competence.

Viva il Papa!

[Matilda]

13. I would have to defer to your friend's knowledge of Parkinsons, but

according to John Cornwell in his latest book The Pontiff in Winter,
which I've only just started to read, JPII is also suffering from
lapses of memory and brief mental blackouts. Apparently he suffers
from oxygen deprivation, and I do know from my own family, when this
happens the brain is, however briefly, starved of oxygen, and this
causes the short-term memory to falter. Sometimes when people just
don't remember things you've told them, or something they did or
said, it's not necessarily Alzheimer's, but it can be oxygen
deprivation. And again, I can say from personal experience, when
it happens, the person concerned isn't aware that they've forgotten
something, they really believe it never happened.

That's a big worry when this man has jurisdiction over 1 billion
Catholics. According to Cornwell, his Polish secretary and the
Curia have been running the Church for the last two years.

Do I think there are people in the Vatican ruthless enough to use
the illness of the Holy Father for their own purposes? Yes, I do.


Edit: typo

[Padraig18]

14. You could be right, of course.

I was speaking hypothetically, which is how I had posed the question to our friend.

:hi:

[TrogL]

7. What if he says something "off the page"?

He's been diagnosed with Alzheimer's. What if he forgets the Holy Word and starts improvising? His is Infallible if I understand correctly.

[happynewyear]

8. who said he has Alzheimer's disease?

I've never heard this. I've heard he has Parkinson's disease. There is a major difference between the two disease FYI.

Last I heard, Pope John Paul II is out of the hospital and has recovered from what was ailing him (a bad case of the flu - ?).

:kick:

[AngryOldDem]

9. Do you have a link to this?

Advanced Parkinson's, yes. Alzheimer's? That's Latest Breaking News material.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. A Pope is only infallible when he speaks officially as the head of the

Church on a matter of doctrine and specifies that he is making an infallible pronouncement. I believe this has been done only twice since the entire concept of papal infallibility was established: once to establish the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception (which is not related to the Virgin Birth of Jesus but is instead the belief that Mary was created free of original sin to be a perfect vessel to bear Jesus) and once to affirm the Assumption of Mary (the belief that she was bodily assumed into Heaven at the end of her life -- she did not ascend as Jesus did but was taken up through the power of God.)

Papal infallibility does not mean that a Pope can never make a mistake and most Popes never make an infallible pronouncement.

Also, as others have already said, it's Parkinson's disease that John Paul II has, not Alzheimer's.

[AngryOldDem]

12. You are correct on the Virgin Birth and Assumption

Papal infallibility, one of the most misunderstood aspects of Catholic faith.

[ElectroPrincess]

15. Simply put - IMO yes