How do we effectively deal with bigotry?

[AngryOldDem]

That noise you hear is my can opener, working on my can of worms...but I hope I don't stir up anything by bringing this up.

Once again, there is a particularly hateful anti-Catholic thread going on Latest Breaking News. I reported it to the mods. I posted what I think is a calm, measured response; what I get in return I don't care to speculate.

I'm sure you've all run into this prejudice at some point, especially since the depth and breadth of the sex scandals broke a few years back. I guess my question is, how do get people to see that there is more to Catholicism than just abusive priests and "old-fashioned" values? How do you respond to such blatant intolerance? My husband, a cradle Catholic, just shrugs it off because he's dealt with this in some way all his life. But should it be something we just accept? How is anti-Catholicism different from any other form of racism/bigotry?

And why do I feel so hurt whenever I come across these threads? (I try to get to them early to see what they're about, but any post with Catholic, Pope, or the Vatican in the subject line draws posters like flies to you-know-what.) I guess I should just not even open these threads, but the fact remains Catholics do seem to get their fair share of hate directed their way, wherever they are.

Sorry for the ramble.

[pelagius]

1. I left DU over this issue...

...but my departure was brief (and very likely unnoticed) because somebody emailed me and told about the new religion and theology forum.

I'm used to the abuse, but it just gets tiresome to say things like "Let's remember, not all Christians are Protestant fundamentalists -- many Christians vote Democratic" and get a hailstorm of responses about my "imaginary friend" and the "superstition" of faith and so forth.

Catholics seem to get the double-whammy because the Church has been quite visible in the recent election.

[DemBones DemBones]

2. It's maddening, isn't it? I've been fighting it here

for years; people come and go but anti-Catholicism remains. Send alerts and reply to the comments is all I can suggest. You probably can't change the bigots at all but sometimes you can shame them, and you never know who you are getting through to. I always hope that someone will learn something from my posts, that someone will see that there's something wrong with a person claiming to be liberal yet hating everything/everyone Catholic. And of course we can and should pray for the posters who rage against us.

O8)

[sandnsea]

3. I don't know

I was/am furious at the Church for interfering in this election, as I stated elsewhere. I was just at a reproductive health web site, 28% of the abortions in the US are by Catholics. 25% of the US is Catholic. Some kind of hypocrisy going on there too, seems to me. I guess I understand the frustration.

Anyway, I grew up without any Catholic intolerance. I actually didn't know it existed. My husband did and I thought he must have been being a little turd as a kid or something. I actually only experienced it first hand in the last few years, and I'm 47. One of those cute little cartoon books about the Church being the Whore of Babylon or something. I was shocked that that sort of thing existed in my middle class little town. Then I had a friend try to convert me or something, told me not to worry, Catholics get to go to heaven too. Well, my my my. What a thing to say.

I use hide thread alot. Wish I had it out here in the real world. People saying stupid things, click, zzzzzzzzz......

[YellowRubberDuckie]

4. There are several people here on DU who are just anti christianity.

Just ignore it. Remind them that they want us to be open minded about their lack of belief, and that it's not their place to do that. I've never criticized their choice, and they shouldn't mine either. It's no one's place to do such things. And I'm engaged to an agnostic.
Duckie

[Beware the Beast Man]

5. Yes, I've donned the flamesuit a few times.

Nowadays I just ignore the threads. Not to stir the pot, but I believe there are some DUers that cannot (or will not) differentiate good, responsible, God-loving people from fundamentalist profiteers, and that's sad. I'm also loath to point out that yes, I do see a pretty hard anti-Catholic slant around here. Maybe that's just my victim mentality kicking in ;)

[AngryOldDem]

6. Thanks for all the replies

I took a few days' sabbatical from DU because of this issue (had/have a lot of other stuff going on, too).

I guess I just get fed up with the hypocrisy...there's much tolerance shown for just about every group under the sun...except for, well...us, specifically the hierarchy (Pope). While I have my crticisms of the man, I think 99% of the comments posted about him on DU are off-target and just plain profane, and if it were directed toward any other leader, it would be dealt with immediately. But DU did allow this board, which I have remember is a positive step.

Maybe people are still suffering from a post-election hangover; I for one have noticed a more tense atmosphere around here of late.

Anyway, thanks for y'all's input...

:hi:

[Princess Turandot]

7. I was shocked when I first started reading DU..

even though I know that it is still vaguely politically correct to criticize Catholics. I almost gave up the site over it, since it was so outside my personal realm of experience that I assumed I'd found nothing more than a nest of bigots. I subsequently concluded that there are quite a few anti-Catholic bigots on DU (and not always particularly intelligent ones since the Church sex abuse scandals simply could not be on point in every thread on every topic) but that not everyone there is. The most ironic thing is that the extreme anti-Catholics are behaving exactly as the Fundamentalists that they decry. And heaven forbid someone mentions Islamic extremists: they seem to get a pass on everything either because of peoples' anger over the invasion of Iraq or their views on Israel. I am aware of 2 things: that Islamic extremists are as crazy as any other religious extremist, and that they no more represent Islam than the jackass with the 'anti-fag' protests represents Christianity. But there are people on DU who hate Catholics who will defend those fanatics with zeal.

Then you have gay DU'ers who act as if Catholicism invented bigotry against gays, when many Protestant sects, most Jews who are not Reformed, and I believe, all Muslims, have the same or even worse 'official' views abt gays. I don't blame them for being angry; my issue is only with people who focus their anger on Catholics alone, as a convenient target.

Last but not least, you have the atheists. It happens that the atheists I know in real life come to their beliefs as a result of a reasoning process particular to their ownselves. They don't care if other people believe in God, or that the word 'God' is in the pledge of allegiance. They have no particular need to convince others to be atheists or think that a belief in God has anything to do with one's IQ. I think that atheists who are so hostile to religion are reacting to an experience with other people in their 'real' lives, something to do with their family or perhaps church membership, and anything about religion enrages them as a proxy for the real source of their anger.

I think the Catholics on DU also get targeted because they are willing to identify themselves as Catholics in these threads, while other people are not always willing to express a religious affiliation.

I once asked someone who was complaining abt the lack of female Catholic priests is she was a Catholic, and she told me she was not. I was going to ask her why she was so hellbent on changing an aspect of a religion to which she did not belong but decided that it wasn't worth it. What I finally started doing was putting people on my ignore list if they start an anti-Catholic thread or if they bring up anti-Catholic sentiments in the middle of threads on other topics. I do the same with people I believe to be anti-semetic. It works for me.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. It does work to use ignore but I've been hoping that

if I keep fighting the bigotry, people will realize what asses they're being and knock it off. Not working too well, perhaps, but maybe it would be worse if no one spoke up? I really can't say.

Being a convert, it's been somewhat surprising to me, even though I know perfectly well that most Protestants have a warped conception of Catholicism, and live in the South, where Catholics are a minority. I've been surprised by the great nastiness of anti-Catholic bigotry today. Not long after I became a Catholic, I was getting in my car after Sunday Mass and found a Jack Chick book (not a mere pamphlet but a book!) wedged between my rearview mirror and my door. It must have been Chick's extra-special anti-Catholic extravaganza, with all the whore of Babylon accusations and nonsense about us eating "death cookies" at Communion. Having a curious nature, I read it, and it was truly hateful garbage.

I just don't understand the mindset that makes people into bigots. I don't understand the Jack Chicks of the world, I don't understand the person who entered our church's parking lot to put that book on my car, and I don't understand the bigots at DU.

[Princess Turandot]

9. I guess I'm spoiled living in NYC..

my friends from my teen days forward were of all religious & ethnic backgrounds, from atheists to a Buddhist(now turned Hindu.) I went to
Catholic grammar school and honestly don't ever recall a nun or a priest or my parents saying anything bad abt people of other faiths.

We do have people proselytizing here from time to tome, although more where I grew up than in my current apartment complex. I think they don't get too aggressive though because we NY'ers can be a surly lot, even when minding our manners!

[DemBones DemBones]

10. I grew up in a military family so I always knew

a lot of Catholic kids and many types of Protestants, not so often any Jewish kids. The opposition to Catholicism that I heard growing up was the standard "They worship Mary, they're not allowed to read the Bible, they have to do whatever the pope tells them to, and why do they believe a man can be infallible?" sort of stuff.

What we get here at DU is often hatred based on the Church's positions on abortion, same sex marriage, women's ordination, etc. I suppose they are so vitriolic because they think the Church might interfere with their lives in some way. That's understandable, yet we all want the freedom to support what we believe in, too, and our right to free speech. Most DUers are, I think, generally opposed to war and capital punishment, so it's acceptable for the Church to weigh in on those issues, it just shouldn't express its views on the issues they disagree about. Perhaps subconsciously they realize the inconsistency of opposing all forms of killing except abortion and that's why they get so mad? (Perhaps their heads would explode if I said that to them!)

[Zynx]

11. There is outright hatred of people of faith on the DU.

They aren't a majority, but they are a very vocal minority and they are absolutely rabid in their attacks.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

12. Well, Catholics get it from all sides on DU.

We get it from the non-Catholic Christians and the atheists. So...Im not sure it's just one group.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Yeah I know right

The Protestants attack us as do the non Christians. God, I hate it.

[DemBones DemBones]

14. Very interesting thread in GD just now. The poster

who started the thread complained about hearing a woman on TV say "Jesus said that he was hated and we would be hated, too" and asked "Where do they get this crap?" It was quickly pointed out to him that Jesus did, in fact, say that. In about five verses in four different Gospels, as I recall.

I was gobsmacked! I thought, "Damn, He did warn us."

[AngryOldDem]

17. I'm curious...

...since I don't visit here much of late.

Did anybody raise a stink anywhere about the Newsweek cover story on Christ's birth? That's what I was looking for the other night when I ran across that totally odious thread on the busted Jesus statue in Louisiana.

I thought, if anything, that would REALLY get 'em going at 500 rpm here.

And the quote above that was the center of dispute...you don't need to be a biblical scholar to know that Christ did indeed say that many times about his followers. But if it came from the Bible, it has to be .... (fill in anti-Catholic/Christian expletive of the day).

:eyes:

ON EDIT: Spelling error

[DemBones DemBones]

19. I haven't seen anything about it but I could have missed it.

As far as the quote, the person who started the thread was outraged at hearing a woman say this, seemed to think she had made it up. She was attending a showing of the Alabama Ten Commandments monument so she was fairly likely to have been a fundamentalist and may have come across as being arrogant. Posters were talking about Christians liking to be persecuted and "using" the verse to support their belief that they're persecuted. It's not a saying of Jesus that I've ever given much thought to, obviously, but I'll remember it for the future.

[DemBones DemBones]

15. I thought better of what I was going to say.

;-)

[DemBones DemBones]

16. I just read something useful at EWTN:

THOUSANDS ATTEND MASS OF REPARATION IN ARGENTINA


BUENOS AIRES, Argentina, December 9 (CNA) - Thousands of Catholics in Argentina gathered on the feast of the Immaculate Conception to take part in a Mass at the parish of Our Lady of the Pilar in reparation for an art exhibit which displayed blasphemous works against Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary.

The pastor, Father Romulo Puiggari, who presided at the Mass, told the faithful, "Let us commit ourselves to pray and work for a decrease in the offenses that our Lord Jesus receives."

"The Church lives on a sorrowful, spectacular and magnificent earth, in a time which has all the features of a dark night. The response of the Church to this dark night is 'to be love'; only love is credible."

He said the celebration of the Immaculate Conception was taking place in a "very particular" context because of the blasphemous exhibit, but the episode has resulted in many Catholics deepening their love for Jesus Christ and the Church.

*************


Loving our enemies is hard but it is what we must do. Darn that Jesus, He doesn't let us off easily.

[FarLeftRage]

18. For the most part, I just ignore it

I know it's out there and has been for quite some time now.

I also know that things are not going to change for the better anytime soon.

I started my ignore feature very, very reluctantly during the hellish primary season when others were needlessly bashing my choice for president and his supporters.

After that, I applied it to those who are blatantly anti-religious and anti-Catholic in general.

My experience during the past primary has taught me not to express my views, opinions or faith for that matter, lest I draw fire from those who hate.

And the biggest irony of all is, that it's on a "progressive, Democratic" message board.

We have people here who surely do not act very "progressive or democratic" when it comes down to dealing with these issues, now do we??

[AngryOldDem]

20. No, we don't

>>>We have people here who surely do not act very "progressive or democratic" when it comes down to dealing with these issues, now do we??>>>


And that is exactly what saddens and angers me the most.

[JohnKleeb]

21. We have to fight it

but primarily, we can't just insult what they believe or whatever back, its a childish tactic. I'd advise continuing to tell em they are wrong and provide evidence of the church's inherent benevolence. Remember Catholics were big in the civil rights movement, the movement to end the war in Vietnam, against Reagan's policies in Latin America, and always big on ending poverty of people in this country.

[AngryOldDem]

22. But the trouble is, that doesn't mean a damned thing to these people

Believe me, I have tried those lines of argument and I've learned that you cannot rationalize with blind hate. My hope is, though, that when I do post a refutation, someone somewhere out there may be given some food for thought. But lately, I've just been too tired and too dispirited to do much responding. Maybe ignore is the best option for me right now.

[JohnKleeb]

23. I dont know

really, I often feel my attempts are futile myself. I wanna fight it because while I try to be diplomatic, I am naturally combative.