Question for Catholic DU'ers on your new pope

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

I came down to this forum to ask a few honest questions. I have no desire for a flame war and no desire to disrupt a forum that is your haven.

Having said that, I do have some questions.

Let me first say that I know very little about Ratzinger, AKA as I understand it, the new Pope Benedict, except that he is more conservative and according to reports by more liberal Catholics, less enamored with causes concerning social justice.

So my questions are as follows and you can answer any or all of them.

1. Prior to his assuming the position of Pope, what were his accomplishments within the Church (i.e. is there anything he was known for?)

2. If he is as conservative as some say, then his position on stem cell research will be (presumably) very limiting. How do you feel about that?

3. If you are a more liberal Catholic, how can you effect any changes in your church now?


I probably won't respond much to this thread...more out of a desire to demonstrate respect than anything

[4_Legs_Good]

1. Thanks for the respect!

Flame wars don't belong here, it's a place for Catholics and Orthodox people to be able to talk amongst themselves rather than perpetually having arguments about pedophilia in GD, LBN, GDP and the Lounge.

1. He was the hatchet man for JPII, as I understand it.

2. I'm going to vomit

3. I feel 100% powerless, more powerless than I did on November 3.

:cry:

david

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. I'm sorry for that

Is there a way to protest any of his actions if you deem them oppressive? As an individual? As a congregation?

[4_Legs_Good]

3. Yeah, leave the church!

There certain other things that might be doable, but the Catholic church is a totalitarian regime. You have to hope that the top is actually being led by God and have faith in that.

But this kinda thing really shakes one's faith.

Plus that faith is always tempered by understanding that those up there are human and they have all the human frailties and faults (as history has shown over and over and over again).

Anyway, I don't know what I'm going to do now. One bold proclamation on birth control and I'm gone.

david

[Matilda]

4. I've been thinking about that all week.

Any ex cathedra statements, and I just don't think I could stay.
And that makes me feel miserable.

[4_Legs_Good]

5. Yep.

My moderately prgressive pastor is leaving next year too, which almost certainly means a 22 year old from Latin America (we're a heavily Latino community, so he'll have to speak Spanish well), and they're generally very conservative.

Bad part is I have a baby due in the next week or so, and I have to make a painful decision as to whether or not to have him Baptized, when I'm not sure if I will continue in the Church.

david

[AngryOldDem]

8. God be with you

>>>Bad part is I have a baby due in the next week or so, and I have to make a painful decision as to whether or not to have him Baptized, when I'm not sure if I will continue in the Church.>>

May He help you make the best decision for your family.

[4_Legs_Good]

9. Thank you...

It's a trying time to be sure.

david

[cally]

11. My recommendation: Get your child baptized

I think it matters to us and I wouldn't allow the fundies to take that away from you. Not for second do I think your child needs baptism but I think you might need the ritual. I did.

My story:

I went back and joined a church to get my first child baptized. I joined a Methodist Church, I don't think I actually joined, but the Minister questioned me about my beliefs. My friend and I wanted our children baptised together and she was a member. I had many questions about accepting a belief that I hadn't been trained in. I made that clear. I believe in Christ but I don't understand all your beliefs. The minister told me that he accepted me in Christ. We had a very private ceremony with our families, my sister is a fundamentalist, and accepted our children into Chrisitanity. Everyone there knew that our religious beliefs differed, but still we had a baptism.

I'm a Presbyterian (probably for not much longer.) You have to join the church to have your child baptised. So I joined the church. I refused during my teen years after intense pressure from my peers and my parents. Again, baptism shouldn't depend on the parents' faith. It makes the sacrament a payment for the parents faith. Still, I joined and I'm glad I did.

Some parts of our faith matter and can't be explained. It matters to have your child baptized. Celebrate your child, your beliefs, and your rituals. Don't let the crazies take that away from you. It matters to your family and friends.

[AngryOldDem]

7. I think you'll see many people leave the Church

Right now, I'm trying to keep an open mind on this, but it's very hard.

It all depends on how doctrinaire he intends to be. I don't especially like Ratzinger. He has censured many theologians (namely Charles Curran), and has been called a Vatican "hit man." Things are taking a very hard right turn, especially when you take into consideration the influence of Opus Dei and other ultraconservative thinkers in the Vatican.

There are pockets of loud opposition and criticism of the Church, namely Call to Action and Voice of the Faithful. I think that is where you'll see the opposition grow quietly -- in lay groups, in the writings of liberal Catholics such as Joan Chittister, and with outspoken, liberal bishops such as Thomas Gumbleton of Detroit. I think if Benedict comes out hardline from the get-go, these groups and people will receive more than just a casual listen from most American Catholics. They will gain a following, which will set up a hard, adversarial relationship between the U.S. and Rome. That is what I am most afraid of right now.

A distancing from Rome -- if not an outright split -- is almost inevitable. It may take years to happen, but the election of Benedict, in my opinion, was a very bad move on the part of the Curia.

[Princess Turandot]

12. Do you really think American Catholics will leave the Church over

one Pope? Nothing that John Paul II preached was particularly new. Whatever Americans did not follow before, they will not follow now. I doubt most American Catholic women are on the rhythm method or that every non-married Catholic is celibate.

I don't think Ratzinger will be making infallible pronouncements.
Given that there have been I think 2 in the last 200 years, the rest of the Vatican wouldn't stand for it.

Theologically, he's not going to distance Catholicism from the Blessed Virgin, or start espousing literal Bible interpretation, whatever people on DU are conjecturing. It's against Catholic theology for starters, and he's also considered one of the smartest Cardinals in the Church, so I doubt he'll be teaching Creationism any time soon.


I will add that the question of women in the clergy, which is raised as an issue that could cause a schism in the American Church, is not important to me. I do not disrespect other people's views on that, but it raises no emotions in me such as birth control does. I don't think that most American Catholics would have the energy to break away from the Church of Rome.

(As much as they call American Catholics 'cafeteria Catholics', I think that's what you find in most faiths. Sometimes it's intentional; other times it's a lack of detailed knowledge of complex religions. )

[Midlodemocrat]

13. I agree with you.

In fact, during all the scandals, it was my experience both personally and professionally that people who left the church were looking for a reason to leave the church.

I would never let the actions of men take something away something as important to me as my Church. We, the Church, are better and bigger than that.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. Karol Wojtyla is smiling at the selection of this man to succeed him.

He trusted Josef Ratzinger and would not allow him to resign his position. Cardinal Ratzinger was somewhat uncomfortable in his position that required him to be the enforcer of Church doctrines and deal with heresies, pedophilia, etc., but he realized the importance of his work, too. (He spoke of this in a recent exclusive interview with EWTN.)

Priests who know him say he has an undeserved reputation as being hard-nosed, that he is a good listener, and a warm person.

Cardinal Ratzinger was one of the prime movers for ecumenical engagement after Vatican II.

I think Pope Benedict XVI will be a better administrator than Pope John Paul II and I think he will probably surprise people by not being quite as conservative as his reputation has led people to believe he would be.

But he will not change Church teachings on abortion, embryonic research, etc., to fit secular trends and many Catholics, myself included, are glad of that.

[XanaDUer]

10. I'm going to give him a break and see what he does.

Someone posted an article elsewhere that evangelicals would like the new Pope to "change" the Church more in line with their beliefs, as in getting away from Mary and more bible thumping.

I understand Ratzinger is not necessarily for these things, so he could not be all that bad.

It is as unrealistic for evangelicals to want to change the Church to their way of doing things as it is for liberals to expect the Church to suddenly veer left on "life" issues.

See below link for article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=226&topic_id=1693&mesg_id=1693

[Midlodemocrat]

14. Plus, I think the choice of the name Benedict is a good sign.

Pope Benedict XV was a pretty moderate Pope and not a bad guy.